UT points needed to draw

tracker12

Very Active Member
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Is there anywhere out there that you can find out what the amount of points it took to draw UT for this year? Thought I had a chance this year but was unsuccessful. Need to re-group for next year.
 
some people are lucky. I put in for a ton of hunts and the only thing I drew was a sandhill permit. I had 12 points in the utah elk and moose draw
 
You can get a rough idea from last years but seems each year there is a new hot unit that a bunch of people migrate too.
 
You can get a real good idea from last years odds just remember that your probably looking at a one to two year point creep away from the lowest point holders, just hope your sittin in the max point pool!
 
Wait, in Utah the number of limited entry permits increased 15%-25% almost across the board (somewhere around 20% overall). Assuming the same number of hunters applied, your odds should have been quite a bit better this year than the year before regardless of the number of points you have.
 
Tag increases were less than applicant increases making your odds WORSE! This 'trend' has been going the wrong direction for years.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-28-08 AT 02:51PM (MST)[p]I drew the Monroe non-resident random draw archery tag with 8 points this year. As I understand it, my odds were around 1% to get this tag. I've talked online with the non-res who drew the preference tag, and he told me he had 11 points.

Of course, with all the publicity about the 'spider' bull, these odds will probably go completely to hell next year, as if they weren't already ridiculous. People forget that nothing has really changed in this unit, other than one mega bull being found. Too many people act like this is the only big bull in the entire state, and there are plenty of really good bulls on more than a few units this year, as in every other year.
 
Unless you are at/near the top in points, for many LE units your odds went DOWN from what they were in 2007 for the random draw. The number of new applicants each year is several times greater then the tag increases, making someone with 1-10 points for an any-weapon tag have worse odds in 2008 than they did in 2007. That is why many, myself included believe the system is broke and getting worse by the year. A new applicant in 2008 applying for a Wasatch any-weapon tag only has a 30% chance of drawing out ONCE in 30 years, that means the odds are 70% that that person will NEVER draw that tag in a lifetime. As long as rifle season has 90% success rates and we have bull:cow ratios over 60:100 this will be the 'norm'. Get bull:cow ratios down were they are SUPPOSED to be, move the bulk of the tags out of the peak of the rut with a rifle, and this trend can be slowed/reversed.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Pro

I was told by someone at SFW that application numbers actually stabalized this year due to the addition of the license requirement. He said that this is the first year they have not had a large increase in the total number of applicants.

Maybe true maybe not who knows I guess we will see when they post the odds!
 
When you say "stabilized", do you mean the same number of overall applicants, or in the same number of new applicants as last year? The numbers I have seen show MORE applicants in 2008 overall than in 2007, but the number of new applicants was about the same as the year before, which still means WORSE odds in 2008 than in 2007 for those not in the bonus point pool. Also, was that for residents, non-residents, or both? And, what was this person from SFW source? Just curious, because the feedback I have gotten is different, but I could be off just as likely as the next guy.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
My guess, for nonresidents is better overall odds this year - then the last 2-3 years. Just a guess but big difference of $5 vs. a license.

I cannot wait to hunt Utah elk but I know as a NR it will only be once. I plan to bowhunt and make the very most of it.
 
proutdoors, I can not agree more with your statement to get the rifle bull hunt out of the RUT...90% success, on MATURE bulls....basically on most units drive around plug a BIG bull...wait another lifetime for a tag...they tried the late hunt thinking it would be more of a hunt...well we all know how that worked out..switch the rut or snow....lets face it with todays system unless you are real lucky or have deep pockets you get ONE shot in a lifetime. personally make it a hunt and give me more opprotunity....
 
There is still room for an additional 3500 elk under the Elk management plan in the state. There are some areas in the state that have room for more elk. Currently the number of antlerless elk permits in some units are having a devastating effect on production. The number of elk on some units are less than 40% to 50% lower than the population was in 1998. If you want more opportuiity to draw an LE elk tag, it would help if production were increased on some units. That would mean less antlerless tags. I'm not sure if the DWR can absorbed the budget shrink if they had to decrease the antlerless permits. Its just the facts. Until the state is willing to budget in some monies each year to supplement license revenue the DWR is more restricted in what they should and want to do vs. what the financial reality is for them.
I also believe that a preference point system should be added to the current system so that someone who has never drawn an LE tag should have the choice to "bump" someone who has already drawn a tag in the last 10 years for that species. I think that would ensure that everyone would draw at least before 20 years !
 
nebo, where does Utah issue antlerless tags just for revenue? If there are areas under objective it is due to limits from habitat, or depredation, or BOTH. Start issuing MORE LE bull tags, which sell for $280.00, and FEWER antlerless tags, which sell for $45.00, and we would have higher recruitment each year, MORE money brought in which helps improve habitat. The DWR does NOT issue cow tags for the money, that is pure BS! ON a given unit the DWR MUST kill a certain number of elk, bulls/cows, to keep herds in check. If sportsmen won't allow more bulls to be killed, then more cows MUST be killed. When we as sportsmen start letting the DWR do their job we will see better balanced, and more healthy herds, which equates to MORE opportunity!

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Antlerless elk tags are a revenue source. Do you think it would work to sell 40 more bull tags vs. 300 antlerless tags ? Antlerless tags are issued for revenue as well as numbers management on a given area. You seem to be trying to BS some of us. The DWR knows that only about 50 % of the tags will be filled for antlerless- but bull tags would be closer to 90% success. Explain to me this -- on a particular unit in central Utah 273 spikes where taken in 1999, in 2000- 238, 2001 - 170, and in 2006- 103 and in 2007- 70. But, the total number of animals counted on the unit in 99 was about 1300. The big game manager says that the latest count was about 1250 animals. Explain to me how there are significantly fewer spikes being taken, yet the herd count has stayed the same? By the way the bull cow ratio is basically the same now as it was in '99. Something doesn't jive here, or do you think that the DWR's own published numbers are false? If you don't think that revenue plays a significant role in "management" decisions, I might tend to think that your move away from Sanpete to more "civilized" climes has clouded your reality picture. The DWR absolutely does its best with what they have. I may not agree with some of the particulars of their recommendations, but for the most part they are hard working dedicated folks.
 
Since it is the Nebo you speak of lets not beat around the bush. Most of the antlerless permits on the Nebo have been depredation tags and because of landowner conflicts. That eliminates "revenue" from the picture right there. Now, lets look at the harvest age averages vs harvest objectives for the Nebo, the Nebo is OVER objective, so 'quality' is NOT an issue. The DWR admits that the bull:cow ratio counts are off on all/most units due to how they count and that bulls are harder to locate/count due to where they are on the range during counts. If spike harvests are going down and the overall population is basically the same as YOU say, then the number of calves being born that are male has dropped of the map. I don't buy it. Either the bull:cow ratio is getting out of whack, or people are simply not finding the spikes. If they are "over-harvesting" the Nebo of cows, there is NO WAY the bull:cow ratio is still the same with the smae number of overall elk. DO the math.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Hey Pro--- Look at the DWR's own PUBLISHED data to see the spike kill. Maybe you are not aware, but the DWR just gave the CO's the task of getting counts and guess what-- they are counting just what eveyone around here has known for at least the last five years-- dismal elk numbers. We have been invited to fly with them next winter by the Central Region big game manager to help count. According to the big game manager and the biologist they do not have any real depredation problems on the Nebo, you might be thinking of the area west of I-15. The only depredation problems they might be having is on private land on the east side of the unit near 89-- but guess what-- NO HUNTING is allowed on those private lands.So, essentially the animals on those lands are not huntable to a tag holder. I am confident that we will find that the herd numbers are dramatically less than 10 or even 5 years ago. Remember, the spike kill came directly from the DWR. The 2007 figure was qouted to me at a RAC meeting by the regional biologist in the meeting at the microphone. 70 spike elk killed vs. 273 in '99. I don't know how you can say that the numbers don't indicate a major decrease in calf production. If you want to hunt "mature" bulls every year, there are a number of units that you can go buy a tag to do just that every year. There are not as many or more bulls on this unit than in '98 when I drew. My son drew in 2006 and the difference in numbers of both bulls and cows was dismal in comparison to hunt in '98. There is a major change over that time period-- but how would you know anyway.
 
No need to get personal big guy. I am partially agreeing with you. Take a deep breath and relax, at your age it is not good on your ticker to get riled over a CALM discussion. I am saying, or at least trying to say that if calf production is down it is due to low cow numbers, and if the DWR is as 'clueless' as you say on how many elk are on the Nebo, how far off are they on the other LE units? that is why I think better counts MUST be done to get a handle on our herds. I have been saying that for years. I think you better double check on the depredation issue for the Sanpete County part of the unit. I got my info right from a pretty good source myself. I know more about the Nebo than you think, be careful how much you assume to know about me. If this herd is in as dire straits as you say, why haven't YOU as a RAC member made some noise about this when YOU helped pass the tag allotments early this year? If I believed it was that bad, I would be making some serious noise, so get me some data to support your claims and I will stand WITH you and demand some corrections be made. Since our last name is the same, I will take you as a good upstanding sportsman, and I offer my help if you want it.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
treedagain

wow, I made a statement once early this year not anywhere near close to that about some utah rifle rut hunts not being to hard (I went no where near as far as what you said) and I got personally attacked insulted etc. Funny the NR are dumb for saying that but residents are not.

I want to see if the person who attacked me comments.

Odd, I even pm'd him to work it out (I did nothing wrong) he tore me apart for literally no reason and he replied to my pm basically saying I was still dumb but to be nice he would let it slide (no apology) funny, he was wrong and I said sorry and he was gracious enough to drop it. unreal.

Good thing was all the other guys who pm'd me and basically said I was right but he was a Utah guy (and I was a NR) and no one would stand up - and I got lot of offers of help since I was unjustly attacked.

Sorry but this was a sore topic I might bring back what I said to see how it compares.
 
Don, I stood with you back then, and I took at least as much heat for it, and I am a native Utard! I have said MANY times that having the rifle season in the middle of the rut is NOT a hunt, and ROBS opportunity from hunters. Move the rifle hunt out of the rut in ALL LE units but a few 'premium' units, and get the bull:cow ratios in line, and a ton more tags can be issued w/o hurting quality. Give higher percentages of tags to primitive weapon hunters, and you are good to go.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Don, I am sorry that you got slammed,just one look at the harvest stats and days per hunter will open anybodys eyes. why do we need to have a hunt where it takes you in some cases 3 or less days on a average to kill a mature bull. people wait there whole lives for ONE tag, kill one the first couple days and are happy to not ever have the chance to do it again, I may be crazy but once is not enough. don't get me wrong I would love to have a tag in my pocket. 10 years ago if you shot a 330 bull on one of utahs best units it would be great, good job, now you would get asked WHY?. my thought of the day is DO WE ALL NEED TO SHOOT 380 BULL. why not lower the average age of the bulls we are killing and give us more opprotunity.
 
Pro- I suppose when someone politely calls BS on someone's opinion it does tend to ruffle the feathers. By the way- I'm not to concerned over my "old" ticker as you put it -- I'd be glad to strap on the hiking boots for a walk to the top of Nebo with you. 11 miles up and 11 miles back. I fought like heck to change the antlerless hunt dates and change the number of permits at the RAC. We had a very lively discussion about allowing hunting during January on winter grounds. Not only does it constitute legal harrassment of elk but it also runs the deer constantly during a very critical part of the winter. The vote to change the end of the antlerless hunt to Nov. 30 ended up 3 in favor and 4 against. Lost that one-- I think you can guess how the voting went -- those that hunt in favor -- those that don't against. Pro-- I appreciate your passion and actually quite admire your involvement. I just see things in a different way. If I think something needs to be fixed, I'm going to say it. The sportsman of the state-- especially the deer and elk hunters-- are responsible for 80- 90% of the funding for the DWR, they deserve to be heard and if something can be done to improve the herds and hunting, it needs to be done, whether or not a DWR employee likes it or not. Sometimes the wheels of change grind to slow.
 

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