U.D.W.R B.S. POACHING INCIDENT.

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DEVILTINE

Guest
So a friend of mine is getting screwed by the DWR over a poaching tag. I want everybody's input on this subject.
Here's the scoop, my buddy, who happens to be a sherrif's deputy, was on his way home after a 12 hour shift when he gets about 1/2 a mile from his home he passes this guy walking to town at 5:00 in the morning. Being the nice guy that he is he turns around and offers him a ride which the guy accepts. When he gets in the truck the guy smells like rutting elk. My buddy asks him whats going on & turns on the light to see that he's covered in blood. Ends up him & 2 other guys poached a bull & broke down & were walking to town. To make a long story short, the three guys were convicted & given $8,000 in fines among other things. Keep in mind that the deputy was not on the clock when he picked this guy up, & did not have to turn around. The sheriff confirmed that he was off the clock as well. In my eyes, he should be given a tag for that species in the same area, instead the UDWR said they shouldn't because he's a cop, even though he was off duty. That to me isn't right. He shouldn't be treated different than anybody else. Give me your thoughts.
 
I threw a day of hunting away hiking back miles to my truck to report some pr!cks that had shot a doe and left it. DWR didn't even write them a ticket! I didn't do it for a tag but I don't know if I'll go out of my way to report the bad guys if the DWR won't follow through.
 
A agree DEVILTINE.

Sounds to me like "the law got screwed" this time.






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If he is driving a county vehicle, burning county fuel, wearing county clothes. I think he first had an obligation to turn around and help a stranded motorist. If that is not the policy of the sheriff department than take away the take home vehicles. And, second he would not have been there if not for the fact that public funds were being used.

On the flip side if he was in his own vehicle, burning his own fuel, and out of uniform going home at the end of his shift. Give him the tag

A public official should not be able to have it both ways. Use public money to drive to and from work. But when it is to their benefit, they are off the clock and want to receive a public resource (tag)as a reward.

The tag on the open market is worth $10,000 or so. Would you be comfortable with him keeping $10,000 in cash he stumbled onto driving home from his sheriffs job in his public vehicle using public fuel. Or, would you be calling him corrupt.

I don't blame the deputy, I think I would have asked for the tag also. He helped out every sportsman and I'm grateful.

The sheriff is the one that should have put a stop to the tag request. He should have just paid him for his overtime because he was acting as a police officer and providing a public service.

He did his duty and I thank him for it, but I don't think I would give him one of "our" tags on top of the vehicle, fuel and clothes.
 
3Toes-

I'm sure you'd think much differently if an off duty officer driving his patrol car on his way home and wearing his uniform, just happen to catch a kidnapper that had nabbed your kid or someone elses that you knew.
I'm sure you'd want to see him get some kind of "reward" regardless of his punch on the time clock.

I sure would!!




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that whole dwr tag reward is a bunch of bs anyway about 10 years ago i handed the dwr an open shut case on som turkeys poached the guy had thenm in his freezer the dwr found them right where they were told they would be all i got was a promise that i would get a tag and a thank you the turkey federation gave me a plaque which was pretty cool i am still waiting for my tag.
 
What if it were a DWR officer 'off duty'? There is really no such thing as 'off duty' for a law enforcement officer in Utah as I understand it. You might be off the clock but still an officer. Same thing as a different jurisdiction. I believe in Utah all officers have authority throughout the state. That DWR officer can arrest you up for drunk driving if need be. The doctor who stops to help at an accident probably won't send a bill. Some things just come with some jobs.
 
Hey Birdbuster,

Shouldn't you be studying maps, GoogleEarth images and running on the treadmill to get ready for the upcoming hunt? FOCUS, buddy!
 
I agree that he should deserves a tag but there is a real fine line "public servants" walk. Aren't they on duty 24/7? I guarantee you that if he where given the tag there would be a public up roar over this guy getting his pocket padded. Funny world we live in, damned if you do and damned if you don't. Guys like this are way under appreciated as it is, throw the guy a bone!
 
AREN'T WE ALL PUBLIC SERVANTS???

IF WE'RE NOT???

MAYBE WE SHOULD BE!!!

THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
Give him the tag.
He was off duty.
Help him become a better Force for wildlife enforcement the word will get out that the DWR did the right thing more will step up to the plate.
 
Just because he was off the clock doesn't mean his responsibility of enforcing the law is also off. His is a 24/7 responsibility whether he likes it or not. Thats just what happens when working in law enforcement. Sometimes it sucks.
Had he known then what he knows now about not getting the tag, would he not have stopped? What kind of message would that send? What if he stops again and lets the guy go next time because he knows he wont get a tag? If found out, he would be in trouble.
I'm not saying he should or shouldn't get the tag, but its hard to argue for it given his position.












It's Bush's fault!!!
 
NOW IF IT WOULD'OF BEEN A PIANO PLAYER FROM A CATHOUSE FROM NEVADA THAT STOPPED & PICKED HIM UP IT WOULD BE O.K. FOR HIM TO RECEIVE A TAG???

WTF???

GIVE THE OFFICER WHAT ANYBODYELSE WOULD'OF RECEIVED!!!

THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
So if he was on his way home and caught a criminal on the FBIs
ten most wanted list should he get the reward Damn right he should.
So what's the problem GIVE HIM THE TAG HE DESERVE IT.
Maybe next time it might be one of us walking on the
side of the road and needing help and he says Iam on my
way home forget it and passes us by(I hope not)
GIVE HIM HIS TAG......................
 
LE cannot recieve those kinds of rewards because it opens them up to bad things.......like "waiting to get off work to solve the crime".

Just the way it is and just the way it has to be.

JB
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-08 AT 08:45PM (MST)[p]I agree he should get the tag... Is he a public servant..yes he is!!So is the guy that works for the city cleaning sewers..We are all obligated to protect these resources, and he did just that...Since I'm in the military and on call 24/7, would I be disqualified from this as well??
 
Enough with all the "what if he where...." HE'S NOT!! He's a cop. Just like when I leave work I have to lock that gate and make sure everything is secure before I leave, don't get paid for it, it just comes with the territory. It sucks, but thats the way it is. It would be no different than if he where pulling in his driveway and a domestic violence call over the radio. Give him a slap on the back and maybe and extra day off for going the extra mile, but thats about it. Most guys are aware of it before they come cops, maybe not this particular situation, but they do it to "uphold the law" and "serve the people" and all that. I've never herd of someone becoming a cop for the pay, thats for sure.
 
I can see it both ways. As a cop, you are never really "off duty". In the event they gave a tag out, there would be lots of talk and speculation about the "good old boy club" or other forms of corruption. It's a fine line to walk and frankly you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. It falls into the same category of rewards for information relating to criminal investigations. It cops were privy to the rewards then it would be easily articulated that some crimes get unfair attention by the police if they were privy to reward monies.

I can't really say that I take one side or another on this one but it demands extra scrunity and I can't say that I blame the DWR for playing it safe. Sounds like he went above and beyond and it would be nice for the reward but it is complex nonetheless. Fact is, he is a cop, and like it or not he will be treated differently than anybody else end of story. Sometimes the only reward you get for it is your paycheck and knowing you did a good job.
 
I say give him the tag. He was not acting on a tip or out looking for poachers. He picked a guy up on the way home and noticed something suspicious and turns out they catch a poacher. Doesn't sound fishy to me. Cop or no Cop if you nail a poacher, you deserve more than just a pat on the back.
 
Not that it really matters, but he probably has to pay for the uniform out of his own pocket.

Driving the publicly owned cruiser and burning the publicly owned gas while off duty is one of the few perks of the job. Unfortunately (apparently), while in that publicly owned vehicle during off hours, he has an obligation to help people out.
 
I personally know of two cases where individuals recieved poaching rewards that were less deserving than this case. One, the person found two dead bulls and turned them in cause thats the law, he ended up getting a tag. The other was a guy got a reward just based on information that he had heard from others. Neither one actually caught anybody poaching. This case with the officer was no question, he basically caught the p.o.s. red handed, and i mean literally. He deserves a tag more than these other two in my opinion.
 
What about giving him a few bonus points towards a draw...wouldn't that be a possible option..still doesn't promise a tag, but shows thanks for helping catch a criminal?
 
Slamdunk,

I would give him my own reward for stopping someone who kidnapped one of my family. But I would never expect public funds to be used. My family - My responsibility - Just the way I walk.

You gain many things by working for a governmental agency, but you also give up many things. If you are a deputy you give up rewards in most circumstances.

I still say the problem is the sheriff. If he or his agency had any integrity he would have just paid the deputy for the service he provided to the community where he lives and works. Question is answered. No backdoor rewards everything is up front. No questions asked. The sheriff should have done his job, like the deputy did.
 
No tag. He was doing his job and I thank him and every other law officer doing their job. Its not his job to actively search out and protect when he's not on the clock, but that doesn't mean he can just turn a blind eye. If my daughter was being attacked at the side of that road and he stopped it, I would be greatful to no end and would try to rewartd him personally. But I would think it was wrong if the State gave him $10,000 for doing his job.

As far as stopping to help a stranded motorist, he is a good and generous person, does not matter if he was in a County vehicle or personal. Thank you again.

I would hope we would all stand up and report a serious crime without the insentive of a reward.
 
I'm sorry, but these deputy's aren't paid enough, some of the b.s. they have to put up with is ridiculous. That being said, this deputy didn't at anytime ask for a tag, the game warden said he would see if he could get him a tag. Everybody in the community wants to see it happen as well. These p.o.s. have been poaching for years & finally because of this deputy they were caught. I think the D.W.R. owe him something. He's not the one pushing the issue. Myself as a fellow hunter, think that the state should give him this coveted tag as a small token of our appreciation, the state got their money, give a little of it back to him for doing their job.
 
What is stopping the community from thanking him. It is easy to do lip service and let someone else do something. If the DWR doesn't come through with the tag, show your support by hosting a fund raiser to buy him a tag. No public money, just community support for a public official that did his job well.

I think you will find that your community will slick away rather than open their pocket books. I hope I'm wrong but it is very easy to point fingers and say something should be done. It is more difficult to give of your own time and money.
 
Guess I got to chime in on this one. Splitting hairs, but if he was still in uniform or in a county car, he's still a cop and no tag - as he is considered still on duty regardless of the clock. If he was in his car on his way in civilian clothes, probably should get a tag, but I'm not sure as it may still depend.

We had a case in AZ where a cop was on his way home from work after a night shift and was killed in an auto accident that was not his fault. Because he was still in his uniform, his family wanted the disability death benefits and recognition as if he were killed in the line of duty. Their reasoning - he was still in uniform.

My ex brother-in-law was (may still be) a member of the Vegas Metro police force and he always said that he would change into his civilian clothes at the station because he did not want to be considered on the job on his way to and from work. Once in his uniform, he was considered on the job and had to perform as a cop in all situations.

If I remember right, the family of the cop killed on his way home won their plight and the officer received full recognition and benefits as if he were killed in the line of duty.

Every state may be different in how they view their officers as on the clock or not, but I think in this case it boils down to what he was driving, what he was wearing and as it unfolded, did he think of himself as a citizen or a cop? That is hard to separate.

Those are my thoughts on the subject.
264X300
 
Well, I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents worth here. In my opinion, he deserves a job well done, but no tag. Even if he was off the clock, as far as his paycheck is concerned...if he is driving in the company car, on company gas, he is on duty (uniform or not)....thats why there is the take home car perk...so officers are able to respond and act quickly, whenever they are in there cars. Im guessing this deputy's department even has policy requiring it.

Now, if he was off duty in his own car, etc. and decided to stop and help someone, and the result was the same...poacher caught red handed...then give him the tag by all means.

I think that if a precendent was started by giving this guy a tag, then officers in many rural jurisdictions would start to come out of the woodwork looking for their tags for having caught poachers while on the job. Rewards like this lead to corruption in the police department.
 
"The sheriff should have done his job, like the deputy did"

What job is that? Pay him overtime?

If this guy was indeed driving a patrol vehicle, in uniform, more than likely he is not considered off the clock until he pulls into his driveway and signs off on the radio. Maybe its different there, but where I live, both state and sheriff who take home vehicles are on duty from the time they enter their vehicle in the driveway until the time they exit it after their shift.















It's Bush's fault!!!
 
Driving home after a 12 hour shift. If he was on duty there is no question about a reward he doesn't get it. The only question is if he was off duty but still in a public vehicle should he get a reward.

He was performing a service to the community on his way home after his shift. I thank him for it. If the sheriff really cared about his department and community he would step up and pay the officer for taking action on his way home after a long shift. Officers that do that willingly are the good ones and he should reward them.

I'll stand by my statement the the sheriff is the problem here. Not the deputy or the DWR.
 
" If the sheriff really cared about his department and community he would step up and pay the officer for taking action on his way home after a long shift."

IT IS PART OF THE JOB. Why is this now in the hands of the sheriff? It is very likely the sheriff is not authorized to just hand this guy county tax payer money, because he did a good job. The sheriff can't do sh!t.













It's Bush's fault!!!
 
It just goes to show you that Govermental promises are worth about as much as the toilet paper they are printed on.

The rules states catch a poacher and if he is convicted get a tag for the same unit and species as the animal poached, Well there is some fine print.

You say the tag is worth 10,000.00. maybe to some landowner that can sell the tag but to the DWR its worth the resident amount. and since 3 guys got fined 8000.00 you can say that the poachers just bought the officer his trophy tag.

JUST MY .02
 
I would say this case is somewhat questionable. If the off-duty officer was in a police vehicle then he was pretty much obliged to stop and offer help (it may be illegal if he didn't). I for one would be extremely pissed if I were in some kind of emergency and a patrol car drove past me if--there would be lots of questions. Moreover, the officer was presumably armed and equipped to handle "problems".

The tag reward program is stupid to begin with, people need to do the right thing without expectation of money or valuables.
 
About 10 years back I was headed south on the highway by Birdseye, Utah and in the hay field next to the road I seen a cow elk laying in the middle of the field so I stopped and walked out to see why and when I got out there the hind quarters had been cut off, so when I got home I called the DWR and they treated me like I was the one that had poached the cow. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth. And I feel that your buddy should receive a permit for the service he did.
OMB
 
What if it was an off duty fish and game officer.....? I don't think anyone would say that a conservation officer would deserve a tag given the same situation.

Got a great respect for the work these guys do, but don't think a tag should be given. Maybe the local chapter or state chair of the RMEF ( or other group ) should recognize the officer at the next banquet in some way.
 
+1 Tuff.

I would bet the farm his take home policy says just that. Being in a department vehicle screwed him :(


buck1.gif


Later, Brandon
 
Well Chris,

Was the guy in his patrol car or personal truck? Was he in uniform? We have alot of assumptions going on here. I think we should wait to come to judgement on this until we know the facts.

I am a City Police Officer. I just retired my K-9 in January. As such I had my own take home car too. If I was in my car I was on duty, whether paid or not. Now if I had to handle something, (which happens quite often) while in the car but off the clock then I could put in for overtime. I am sure that he could or did put in for OT. The Sheriff would not balk at paying a deputy for doing his job. I am sure of that. I am sure he had to write a report. If he was in the patrol car then NO he should not get the tag.

BUT, If he was in his own truck, on his own time, then he should get a tag.

You mean because I am a Police Officer I am never entitled to the same benefit as any other citizen? If I take on the risk on my own time, with no radio, maybe no weapon, no back up etc. I should get the same rewards.

And of course we should ALL do the right thing without the thought of a reward and I am sure he was not thinking of one.


Mike Henne
 
Did you hear what Huntdude said about this case? Not true. Check out Snoopes. It's a right wing conspiracy perpetrated by no other than Geo Bush.
 
Same old DWR bait and switch I caught a guy read handed last year he was convicted i got no tag .. you bet he should get a tag off duty cop hell ya what the difference between him and I none ... but dwr bait and prommiss is the biggest joke around ...
 

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