Your Deer and BULLET PERFORMANCE?

Elkslayer

Active Member
Messages
363
Just interested in how your bullet performed on deer, this should be interesting. I'll start first:

Gun: 270 Win with 130 Grain Federal Premium Nosler Balistic Tip.

Shot: Mule deer buck at 125 yards slightly quartering away.

Bullet Performance: Entered just into left ham and into vital organs. Bullet took out most major organs. Buck dropped where it stood and did not so much as take one step. Bullet did not exit and could not find any part of the bullet up towards the neck. Bullet performed as it was designed.

Conclusion: If this bullet is used on broadside shots through the vitals as intended, it will perform great. Am a little worried about shoulder shots, etc when using this bullet.
I am going to try to see how the Remington Core-Lokt 130 grain performs as it is the most accurate out of my gun...sub MOA. I think this bullet will stay together a little better on marginal hits and encountering bone. It is said that this bullets also expands...maybe the best of both worlds for me. I have used Trophy Bonded Bear Claws and Nosler Partitons, but these bullets through the check took to many shots and left small holes...yes, probably should have been shooting for the shoulders.
Alan
 
Did you think about bullet placement?
Why did you place entrie at the ham(only shot?,bad shot?,jerk
the shot?)The ham is dense and will effect a bullet preformance
for sure! However I am not sure what you are asking.
The last buck I took was 140yrd broadside uphill with an .257
WTBY MAG 115 Barnes X bullet(3 deer,2 lopes taken with this gun and round!).That deer flipped an 180 and landed dead!
I have yet to find an bullet with that gun outta 5 kills!
I have found bullets in harvested game from my 30/06,7mm,30/30
.338wm all of them I use an more conrolled expanding bullet like
Sierra boat tails and not the solid coppers like "X" or Bearclaws bullets!
rackmaster
 
Kind of long, but interesting in your discussion.

EXPANSION VS. PENETRATION
Know Your Philosophy
Behind Bullet Selection

Goose bumps covered my neck as I found the bull moose in my scope. My mind was replaying recent conversations concerning bullet selection for my moose hunt. ?You?re going to use what,? exclaimed my inner circle of hunting fanatics! My buddies further mocked me with, ?Why those bullets won't even shoot through a soft cube of butter.? The bull was out about 225 yards, slowly moving through the willows. As I settled in for the shot I began to second guess my decision; had I indeed gone after bear with bird shot? I remember thinking it's a little late at this point, as I squeezed the trigger and felt the recoil.

There?s no question about it, bullet design drives bullet performance. However, when we select a bullet what are we selecting for, especially in a hunting bullet? One of the most obvious is that of accuracy. It doesn't matter what kind of bullet you're shooting if you can't hit anything with it. However, this discussion will focus on bullet dynamics at the point of impact and different philosophies behind bullet selection.

What are hunters trying to do when they shoot an animal (besides kill it)? Most aren't exactly sure. How, then, do we select the ammunition we buy or reload? Well, that's just what we've always shot or someone told us that's what we should shoot. There are two schools of thought: bust them down with maximum penetration; and maximize damage to the vital organs with rapid expansion.

There are two basic types of hunting bullet design (granted both feature a vast array of styles). In very general terms, some bullets are designed to maximize penetration, while others are designed for rapid expansion. This discussion will focus on comparisons between the design and performance of Nosler Partition and Nosler Ballistic Tip Bullets, based on my experience. Obviously, individual results will vary depending on caliber, powder, bullet velocity, bullet weight, distance of impact, density of object impacted, etc... Everyone has their own preference and certain things that work good for them. If so that's great, if not this article is intended to make you think about your philosophy behind bullet selection. While this article focuses on Nosler Bullets, inferences can be drawn on other bullets based on their design.

Most hunters I know hold behind the front shoulder, hoping to get a lethal heart/lung shot. In general, a bullet designed to maximize penetration undergoes very little expansion when shooting an animal through the lungs, because there is relatively little resistence. Hence, damage to the vital organs and consequently the transfer of energy from the bullet to the animal is very low compared to a bullet designed to optimize expansion.

The Nosler Partition Bullet is designed to penetrate. The Partition features a fully tapered jacket with a thin jacket mouth designed for controlled mushrooming characteristics at ?virtually? all impact velocities (we'll discuss this later). The base consists of a protected core designed to resist deformation, providing maximum driving force.

On the other hand, the Nosler Ballistic Tip Bullet is designed to maximize expansion. The Ballistic Tip consists of a polycarbonate-tipped plug in a ?mild? hollow-point design. Upon impact the polycarbonate tip separates from the bullet triggering rapid expansion. The solid base of the bullet with its thicker jacket is designed to keep driving the mushrooming top portion, while providing continued rapid expansion.

When I first started reloading, I fell in love with the way the Nosler Partition Bullets shot. I was shooting 0.5 inch groups from my .300 Winchester Magnum, with 200 grain Nosler Partitions in front of 74.0 grains of IMR 7828 powder, in Remington Brass. Likewise, I was getting 0.75 inch groups from my .243 Winchester, using 100 grain Nosler Partitions with 42.0 grains of IMR 7828, in Remington Brass. They grouped better than any other loads I tested and I could shoot through a tank with them. Now that I had the ?perfect load? I was ready to do some hunting! The next several years would prove to be quite frustrating with respect to bullet performance.

Later that fall I took a blacktail buck using 100 grain Nosler Partitions in the .243 Winchester. The first shot was only about ten feet, followed by several more on out to around 100 yards. The buck just wouldn't go down. Upon finally getting the buck and inspecting the shots, I found four bullet holes behind the front shoulder that I could cover with a clenched up fist. The entrance wounds were the diameter of the bullet and exit wounds the same. After inspecting the organs, all were intact with little bullet holes through them. All the bullets had passed cleanly through the chest cavity with basically no bullet expansion, consequently there was little damage to the organs or transfer of energy to deer.

The next year, my partner, using my .300 Winchester Magnum loaded with 200 grain Nosler Partitions shot a cow elk at around 300 yards. After field dressing and skinning the cow, we found that the bullet had passed down through the left shoulder (missing the bone), through the middle of the heart and out the right armpit (it was a very steep downhill shot). The entrance wound, the hole through the heart and the exit wound were all the same size. Again, no expansion and very little tissue/organ trauma aside from hitting the heart. If he had missed the vitals, that elk wouldn't have even slowed down.

The following year I shot a mule deer in Idaho with the same load. At about 100 yards I punched a small hole through both lungs and he still went a ways before going down. Again, closer inspection revealed little tissue damage and no expansion. Though I was still killing animals, I was not happy with the speed or efficiency at which those animals were going down. Back to the drawing board I went, again in search of the ?perfect load?. I didn't want one load for brush-hunting blacktails, another for open-country mule deer and yet another for elk hunting. Rather I wanted to find one load that would adequately handle them all. Mission impossible according to many.

That got me asking myself the question, ?What is my philosophy behind bullet selection?? Well, I had wanted a load that would blow through an animal no matter where I hit them. In effect I was selecting for a load that would maximize bullet penetration - and all loaded up in shiny cases those 200 grain Partitions even looked ?bad to the bone?! Only one problem, I was getting way too much penetration. Not only was a I losing the tissue trauma associated with rapid expansion, but also the shock factor from energy transfer. And since I wasn?t trying to shoot animals in the front shoulder or the back ham, I felt perhaps the philosophy of expansion might better suit my hunting style.

With that I spent the next summer working on a new load. While not nearly as happy with the grouping, I settled on 70.0 grains of IMR 4831, pushing 180 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips, in .300 Winchester Magnum. Not sure what to expect from this load I spent the next few years critiquing its field performance. The following examples all use this load.

The first season I made a poor shot on a running whitetail and broke the femur in the ham, stopping the deer immediately (next time I'll hold ten feet in front of a whitetail instead of only five). I rapidly finished off the deer with a double lung shot, dropping it instantly. Even with the bad shot, the Ballistic Tips had no problem busting down a deer. Likewise, upon removing the lungs, it looked like someone had thrown them in a blender and the exit hole was about an inch in diameter.

In 1997 I killed a mule deer in Oregon. He was running away from me and stopped on the edge of a drop-off. I had one shot, at about 75 yards, down through the back from above. At the shot the buck folded. The bullet had not only broken the back, but also penetrated on into the chest cavity, destroying the heart and lungs. The bullet didn't exit, therefore he had to absorb all the energy from the shot, as well.

That same year back in Washington I also took a mule deer buck during a rut hunt. This buck was dogging some does and when they dropped over the ridge, my wife and I made our move. As we peeked out around the sage brush, the buck was sniffing a doe at just under 25 yards. I fired a warning shot to give the buck a chance, but he didn't heed the warning (my wife thinks I just missed). My second shot took him through the jugular, slamming him to the ground. The bullet shot clear through with an exit hole of almost an inch.

That same year my brother-in-law also killed a blacktail in western Washington. At 125 yards he took the buck through the neck. Though the bullet shot clear through, the exit hole was quite extensive. The bullet missed the neck bones, however the energy from the shot alone broke its neck.

In 1998 my brother-in-law took a nice eastern Oregon mule deer. After a long stalk he shot the buck in its bed, almost straight down, at point-blank range. The buck never even moved. The shot shattered the spine and destroyed the bucks vitals on impact, stopping in the chest cavity. Again, the buck had to take 100 percent of the energy from that bullet.

Last year I drew a once-in-a-lifetime moose tag in Washington. Not wanting to waste it I put all other hunting aside for that year. Because I had a valid deer tag for the same unit I decided I would take a deer during my moose hunt if the occasion arose, and on November 19th it did. At less than 100 yards, I shot a nice white-tailed buck quartering sharply away. At the shot the deer hit the ground and lunged forward about 15 feet where he came to rest.

Examination of the shot showed three broken ribs at the entrance wound, a shredded liver, an exploded heart, bruised lungs, a busted opposite shoulder and the bullet just inside the hide on the far side. That deer was dead when he hit the ground, even though he lunged another 15 feet. After retrieving the bullet I was able to weigh it to look at bullet mass retention. Of the 180 grains, it still maintained 110 grains after going through all that. That's over 60 percent of the original bullet mass.

Now getting back to the moose. By the time I recovered from the shot and chambered round number two, the bull had turned 90 degrees, taken one step and went down. Boy are my buddies going to hear about this! At approximately 225 yards, I had just dropped my bull with one shot. Granted no one said moose were hard to kill, but most said they were hard to put down.

Still somewhat skeptical as I field dressed the bull, I found that the bullet had broke a rib going in, shredded the liver, destroyed the left lung and stopped at the hide on the far side. The bull went down within a few seconds of the shot. The recovered bullet from the moose had a bullet mass retention of 106 grains, nearly 60 percent of its original mass. Several thought I might have a tough time even getting penetration to the vitals using Ballistic Tips, let alone full penetration of the chest cavity.

On the other hand, Nosler Partitions are quite arguably considered one of the world?s premier big game bullets on the market today. They are touted as a high performance bullet, providing superior mushrooming characteristics at all impact velocities. While I have no doubt that under the right circumstances Partitions are every bit as ?bad-to-the-bone? as their claim, I have not experienced this ?controlled? performance for myself. For some reason they tend to perform a little different for everybody, with one person getting awesome performance and the next getting no performance, even with the same caliber.

Personally, I have had a tough time getting the Partitions to expand at all, even at close range. If a person were able to get the velocities high enough, they would probably perform much better. Likewise, a direct hit to any of the major bones in an animal would likely induce some major expansion. However, your average big game cartridge seldom breaks 3000 fps and most hunters aren't typically trying to shoot game in the large bones. And consequently, this lack of expansion drastically reduces tissue trauma and energy transfer (shock effect) on a typical heart/lung shot.

Some would argue that shooting Partitions is just good insurance for off-placed shots. There?s no question that Partitions will take a licking and keep on ticking, however for shots that are right on target, the Partitions haven't performed nearly as well for me. And while Partitions are as solid as they come, there isn't much wiggle room when it comes to performance. If everything isn't just right, they tend to hold their shape and penetrate too well. I found the Ballistic Tips to be much more forgiving, especially with off-placed shots (i.e. a marginal heart/lung shot is often more than adequate with an expanding bullet because of the increased path of destruction and energy transfer).

Obviously one could argue that my examples of neck and back shots probably don't detract from the Partition?s performance. I am fully confident that the Partitions would have performed very well under those circumstances, as well. However, those examples do bolster the case for Ballistic Tip Bullets. Whether energy transfer or destruction of vitals, the deer shot through the back dropped in their tracks and the deer shot in the neck were slammed to the ground, suggesting that the Ballistic Tips are very good at what they were designed to do (tissue trauma and energy transfer).

Others would argue that Ballistic Tips are a great hunting load for small game like deer, but not adequate for compromising shots on larger game. For starters, compromising shots probably shouldn't be taken, even if your load will blow the leg off an elephant. Part of hunting is not only shot selection, but just as important, shot placement. If you consistently take good shots and can put the bullet in the heart/lung area, compromising shots aren't even an issue. And if you don't take good shots or can't put the bullet where you want it, then you really have no business being out there in the first place.

The 180 grain Ballistic Tip traveling at 2900 fps (muzzle velocity) packs 2,968 foot pounds of energy at 100 yards. The 180 grain Partition traveling at 2900 fps carries 2,920 foot pounds of energy at 100 yards. And while it may not blow through both shoulders like the Partition, ounce for ounce the Ballistic Tip packs more energy, especially at longer distances because it has a better ballistic coefficient. Likewise, the Ballistic Tip uses that energy much differently (i.e. to expand the bullet instead of drive it).

So the question remains. Am I trying to shoot through both shoulders or take out the vitals? The answer to that question may change your philosophy on bullet selection, I know it did mine. And for me the results have been quicker and more efficient kills. Whatever your philosophy, if you've found a combination that works, stick with it. If not, don't be afraid to experiment and try some new approaches. And above all, spend some time practicing! There?s nothing like a little confidence in your shooting ability to top off even the most proficient load.
 
Shot four deer in the past five years with my Model 70 7MM Mag. All very large body deer and all were from 100 to 150 yards and all were vital shots. I use the Federal Premium Sierra Boattail 165 grain. All of those deer went straight down and didnt move.

Figured Id post short after that last novel.
 
Hey Mule_Deer_Crazy
I am just joking, but YOU(reading)wore me out already this morning reading your two post!
and ya just ruined the trill of the sunday morning paper!
Gotta love it!
LOL
jack
 
I have heard that they had beefed up the ballistic tips so that they would hold together better when they run into the hard stuff, and your experiences seem to back that up.

Sounds kind of like what Hornady advertizes that their new Interbond bullet does (ballistic tip, tapered jacket, and bonded to the core so that supposedly never ever seperates from the jacket)

For elk, I have always used a 7mm mag with 160 gr nosler partition. I have never recovered a bullet that didn't have the entire front portion (the soft nose) completely expanded and the lead gone

For Texas whitetail, I shoot a 270 with standard, off the shelf Remington 130 gr core lokt bullets. For mule deer, I use the Hornady light magnum 140 grain interlock bullet.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Thanks for the info posted so far. Please include more info about the shot ( yardage, shot placement, did you retreive the bullet, how much was left of the bullet, etc, etc. )
 
270 Winchester in a Remington model 700.
130 grai Nosler Partition.
57 grains Hogden 4831SC.
Deer 90 yards away quartering away looking back.
One shot to the neck about 2 inches beloe the ear.
Bullet entered and exited breaking the neck.
One dead deer, no lost meat.
 
Colorado mule deer
270 winchester, model 70
Hornady light magnum 140 gr interlock bullet
150 yards
broadside with a slight quatering away
entered rear of right shoulder, through lungs and exited with a 1" hole just in front of left shoulder.
Did not recover bullet
deer dropped in its tracks

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
I've had nothing but negative experiences with ballistic tip bullets. I gave up on them over a decade ago. Maybe they are now better than they were, but I doubt I'll ever trust them. I shot big mule deer with them (130 grain - 270 win) and never even had the bullet enter the body cavity. It literally came apart OUTSIDE THE RIBS ON THE ENTRY SIDE. Not acceptable in any way.

Maybe I have different values, but I wanty an exit hole, and the partition almost always gives me that. I'm really surprised that the ballisitc tip went through the ham on the buck that you shot.

I'm an outfitter and I do not let our deer hunters use ballistic tip bullets on deer or elk. If you wnat to use a polymer tip bullet and hunt with us, it's going to be a Swift Scirocco, and we are now "test driving" the Hornady polymer tips as well.

Nosler has some proving to do to me on those ballistic tips. They are not good enough for big western mule deer in my book. Maybe a small buck but not on a big mule deer.

That's my nickels worth on ballistic tip bullets, anda yes I've written to Nosler and told them this.

Jim Freeburn
 
I was afraid to use the BT in my .270, but the 180 gr. out of my Win. Mag. has performed flawlessly.
 
Rem. 7mm In Mexico 348yrd quarting away. Hit lungs and found the bullet in the front of the left shoulder. He went 100yd. Coues was dead in his bed at 263yd, bullet found in the skin on other side of neck. Nevada 425yd two chest shots and no bullets found.I was shooting federal prems 140gr nos parts.
 
I've shot about fifty deer with firearms. I've used core-lokts, ballistic tips, Partitions, Barnes X and maybe a few more. I am also a bowhunter and have come to appreciate a pass through with any type of weapon. Most of my hunting is at home in Mississippi and the cover can be extemely thick in areas. I realize these are not the conditions that most of you experience. I have taken deer with .30-30, .270, 7 Rem mag, and .270 Weatherby Mag. I will shoot Barnes X or Nosler Partitions, which ever groups best. Those two bullets flat out kill. I took a 100 yard running shot in Kansas on a buck this season and hit him in front of the hind quarter and angling slightly forward. The buck dropped right there. No spine was hit. The bullet was a 140 grain Barnes X out of the 270 Weatherby Mag. The destruction that the Partition does when it strikes bone is impressive. I am interested in what some of the new bullets will do that are a combination.
 
I have had good results with 165 Scirocco 300 RUM 3400 fps. This year big mule deer 270 yds. dead in his bed. Shot though and broke both shoulders. Found bullet inside hide on the far side. 300 WTBY killed though vitals at 408 yds. Buck went a few yards bullet not found.
 
I've got a .300 Win Mag and I love it! I'm shooting a Federal Premium Sierra Boattail 165 grain slug at 3215 feet per second. I've been shooting this load for 3 years now and have taken 4 mule deer with it myself and helped a buddy knock down a buck he hit in WY too. He was shooting a 25-06 and made a poor shot so I helped him seal the deal. One shot from the trusty old .300 at each of these 5 bucks and each of them hit the dirt. :)

WY 2003 Hit the buck right through the heart from a long ways out (most of you wouldn't beleive me anyway) and he dropped within 30yds. The bullet passed through with an exit wound about the 1" in diameter.

UT 2003 Hit the buck right through the heart from 356yds and he dropped within about 5 feet of where I shot him. The bullet also passed through and made a 1" exit wound.

WY 2004 Helped my buddy finish off his buck from 356yds (on the run) and he dropped in his tracks. This buck was also quartering away so the bullet entered through his ribs just in front of the stomack, went through his heart, through his shoulder and then the slug stopped right at the hide. I saved the slug but have not weighed it. If I had to guess I would say it has to be around 70% in tact.

WY 2004 Hit my buck right through the heart from 428yds and he immediately fell to the ground. The bullet passed through.

No UT 2004 (Stupid dedicated hunter program!) :)

CO 2004 Hit the buck at approximately 310yds through the heart and he dropped within 20 feet of where I shot him. This buck was also quartering away so the bullet entered through his ribs just in front of the stomack, went through his heart, through his shoulder and then the slug stopped right at the hide. I saved the slug but have not weighed it. If I had to guess I would say it has to be around 70% in tact as well.

All 5 of these bucks were mature (4yrs old or more) not just young bucks. I think the trusty old Sierra Boattail is hard to beat.

I know some of you may think I'm full of it but it's all 100% true. Maybe I'm just lucky? I do shoot between 100 and 200 rounds through this gun each summer just so I'll be ready when the time comes. I love the gun and the load and don't plan on changing a thing.

Good luck to all with this years draws!

NvrEnuf
 
well, i shot a cow elk back few years with my .308 shot was 50 -70 yards, bullet was sierra boat tail, psp i think. shot went right behind the shoulder, put a fist size whole in the heart and was recovered on the far side beneath the skin. id say thats performance!


i shot a coues with my 30-06 and 125 nosler ballistic tips, the deer was 340 and than 400+ yards away, first shot, knee hit, second shot,???? 3rd shot, 1" below heart. deer goes down and we think he is dead. later we we him runnin about 400+ out there so i start flinging lead... 4th shot high 5th shot high, 6th shot, ass hit he does down. 7th shot hits on the far leg, he goes down, gets back up and just stands there dying. 8th shot, i take my time and put one right in his front shoulder. over the all the bulles pretty much explioded when the hit something hard but they did cause massive damage. if i would have hit him good the first shot he would have been dead but i was not good at shooting that far but i did it eventually!
Casey
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-20-05 AT 01:39PM (MST)[p]I use Nolser partitions 165 in my 30-378 and they are great for long distance one shot kills way out, But under 100yds they don't performace as well on live game, My guess is they are going to fast. The 180 gr. X- bullets shoot good no matter what distance.
 
I posted this a few months back...


I always find this one of the most interesting subjects so much that when gutting/skinning an animal, my biggest quest is bullet recovery. This year I took a CO mulie and a small-bodied mulie in WY using Federal's 160 grain Nosler Accubonds in 7 Mag. The CO deer was one shot in & out the neck with no bullet recovery. The WY deer was a bit more interesting. The first shot was downhill @ 195 yds with him looking straight up the ravine at me. When I shot, he jumped a bit and then bounded off. Although he jumped, I was concerned I had missed. When I got down to his spot there wasn't a speck of blood (no snow) visible. Instead of following his route, I went around a small rise so I could use it as cover and come over the top. When I crested this rise, we spotted each other at the same time as he was bedded down and blowing blood from the mouth/nose. He jumped up and began running up the ravine semi-quartering away from me. I let the 2nd shot go @ approx. 75 yds. and down he went. Now this is where the real interesting part starts. The second shot was very apparent; it had entered just behind the right shoulder and greatly exited through the left shoulder bone leaving a massive exit hole. I was still intrigued about my 1st shot and the absence of sign at the shot site. I could see where the bullet entered high and a bit left (his left) of center chest. Upon gutting, I found that this shot had entered the chest taking one lung and continuing the length of the animal breaking the last rib. I recovered this round just in front of the rear left leg in some fatty tissue. The round would appear to have at a minimum 90% retention and excellent expansion. My biggest concern was the lack of an exit hole which can explain lack of blood at the shot site. I've heard some varying opinions on the new Accubonds and their ability to penetrate bone/tissue. I think this particular animal could make for an argument on both sides. In a situation such as this, would you guys consider the 1st shot a case of bullet failure??? I hate to say it, but I tend to be more comfortable with the "One shot, one kill" theory. Taking this theory into consideration, I'm contemplating changing rounds. In the past I had always used 180 grain Core-Lokts with success, but wanted to move down to a faster, flatter round. Let me know what you guys think.
Here's a pic of the WY mulie with the 2nd shot exit hole very apparent.


4240464a294d5b8d.jpg
 
sealer, Every bullet will not perform as one would expect it to every time. There are too many variables. Some want a bullet to be retained in the animal expending all it's energy. Some want the bullet to exit creating a blood trail. Neither one is going to happen every time for any hunter. And having a blood trail to follow for a rifle hunter should only be a concern when there is a bad shot. Don't get down on the Accubond. Sometimes an animal will travel no matter what bullet, or what the placement is. mtmuley
 
Thanks mtmuley...I had posted that info back in Nov. and since that point I've become set on the Accubonds due to further conversations with guys like yourself. I should post a comparitive pic of the recovered round to justify my "new found" feelings of the Accubonds. Considering the round travelled the length of the animal (with deadly damage), I'd say the "proof is in the pudding" with regards to this round's effectiveness.
 
Sealer,

I would say your first bullet performed flawlessly. It had 90% weight retention, went through about 4 feet of deer, and had great expansion. But because it was a little left of center, it only hit one lung, so it didn't immediately kill the deer. A core-lokt, nosler partition, X, A-frame, etc. wouldn't have done any better.

It sounds to me like the buck would have died from the first shot if he was coughing up blood, it just would have taken more time than if the bullet would have hit the heart. And the bullet would have exited, leaving a better blood trail if the deer were not facing straight on.

On some of the shots described above, the deer that dropped in their tracks are not optimal shots. I know I don't shoot for the spine? too small of an area to hit.

Anyway, I think your bullet did exactly what they advertise it will do. Nice buck, too.

WH
 
Sneakem, love it!


My last two rifle bucks have been taken using Remington Bronze Point factory loads in 30-06. At distances of 350 and 250 yards +/-, both bullets preformed perfectly as to their design. 100% fragmentation means 100% of the energy is absorbed by the animal. Both deer were literally dropped in their tracks, I prefer the term 'Pole Axed'. Pay very close attention to the exact location of your animal prior to the shot, cause they drop so fast, if he's in the brush...you might lose ?em. :D




'It's all about the gut pile'
 
My personal experience with Remington Core-Lokt isn't good. I shot those through my 30.06 for three years before switching to Winchester brand shells. Two out of the three years I had problems with the bullet splitting before doing much damage and in one case it split before even hitting the deer, leaving two entry shots, well three if you count the third one used to finish him off. however I don't know how the bullet split, but it did and I found the two sumwhat halves. The one hit right where it should have, behind the front shoulder, however the other one ended up back and high just in front of the butt. Needless to say it bloodshot and ruined a lot of meat which is uncalled for when you had a good shot and the bullet just didn't perform. I switched to Winchester and haven't had any problems, yet and they both cost about the same.

huntervirg
 
Hay Woodruffhunter!
I had that happen to me also about 13yrs ago when I drew up
my 30:06 on a dink blacktail and pulled the trigger and "click"!
I thought I never loaded the rifle however when I cycled the
bolt a bullet went flying out and the next round fired,that knocked that buck for a 180deg over very dead (@60 yrd shot)!
I never bought Winchester again not even shotgun shells!
Now the only factory rounds I buy are Federals(mostly shotgun!)and Weatherby!
Rackmaster
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-05 AT 10:59PM (MST)[p]2004; 248 gr. Powerbelt aerotip w/110 gr. 777 powder (muzzleloader). Muley was broadside at 30 yards. Bullet hit spine in neck, severed femoral artery. Buck dropped on spot, was literally was pushed back from kinetic energy.

2003; 248 gr. Powerbelt aerotip w/110 gr. 777 powder. Muley broadside at 50 yards. Bullet hit spine above shoulder, Buck dropped on spot but not dead. 2nd shot to neck dispatched.

Previous 15 years of Deer/boar hunting; Majority of animals shot using 165 Grain Nosler partition bullets, 30-06 handloads in Win M70. From 14 wild boar and about 10 deer, recovered 2 bullets. Each of these bullets retained approx. 95 grains of weight, both recovered in hides. All deer dropped upon shot, 50% of boar shot ran 20-50 yards and dropped. All but 1 animal lung or heart shot. One boar (250# live weight) head shot with .357 mag Federal (258 grain?) softpoint factory load, dropped in tracks. One (first) deer shot head on at 125 yards (heart shot) with 150 grain Winchester silvertip. Result = buck jumped straight up like on a pogo stick, then 2 big bounds and dropped dead 50 yards from site of hit.

Bullet size, style and performance is important, but bullet placement is omnipotent.
 
Ballistic Tips

Ballistic Tip Overview

Ballistic Tips (BT's) were designed by Nosler for violent expansion / explosion and medium penetration on light skin type animals like deer.

For most calibers shooting fragile BT's, you're better off using heavier projectiles with bigger Sectional Density's (SD's) than you would normally use for a regularly constructed bullet.

Why?

1. Heavier bullets for caliber are better in a BT because they tone down the violent expansion a bit and still have enough weight leftover for a complete pass-through.

2. The shock-value with the heavier BT will still be more than lighter standard bullets and you get more energy on target.

3. Short range shots also suit the larger round with a higher SD versus lighter weight BT'd bullets with less mass.

4. Raking quartering-away shots obviously benefit from a heavier round for adequate penetration.

5. A larger BT'd bullet is also more forgiving if you shoot accidently into the shoulder.

Example:

.270 Win BT's benefit from 150-gr. versus 130-gr.
30-06 BT's perform better with 180-gr. versus 150-gr.

FYI:

Nosler says that beginning with the 30 caliber 180-gr. Ballistic Tips (and larger), the jacket's profile is changed or upgraded to a much stronger contour similar to the AccuBond (shown below). The lead core is also hardened over the 165-gr. and below bullets.


accubondcut.jpg



Lighter weight bullets like 165-gr. 30 caliber and lower (shown below) do not have the thicker contour which starts in the middle of the shell and goes down to the base.


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In summary, one might suggest that the 180-gr. Ballistic Tip is simply a non-bonded AccuBond.


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Caution:

* Standard bullets generally perform better on deer in lighter to mid-weight sizes.

* Ballistic Tipped rounds are the exception to the rule as outlined in the opening post. Reported problems of a BT blowing up too quickly are generally associated with too light of a bullet.

Steve

P.S.

I like a bullet to perform two things in my 30-06:

1. Violent expansion / shock.
2. Plenty of penetration for a pass-through.

Nosler makes 4 great rounds to accomplish any North American task - listed in order of toughness:

1. Ballistic Tip
2. Solid Base
3. AccuBond
4. Partition

* Light skinned / boned deer: 180-gr. Ballistic Tip / Solid Base / AccuBond
* Heavy skinned / boned elk: 180-gr. Partition / AccuBond
 

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