UTAH CONSERVATION TAGS

2

22BR

Guest
UTAH HUNTERS BEWARE. THE FISH AND GAME AND DON PEAY APPROVED 200 MORE CONSERVATION TAGS. THIS IS 4 TIMES THE TOTAL COMBINED CONSERVATION TAGS OF ALL WESTERN STATES!! APPROX. 400 TAGS ARE GIVEN TO THE HIGHS BIDDER (CONSERVATION ORG.). IT WILL NOT BE LONG AND ONLY THE RICH WILL HUNT IN UTAH. I THINK THE AVERAGE JOE BETTER RETHINK WHAT IS HAPPENING AND START FIGHTING THIS. IT HAS BECOME A MONEY ISSUE AND NOT SUPPORT FOR OUR CONSERVATION ORG. IF THE CONSERVATION GROUP DOES NOT HAVE THE MONEY, THEY CANNOT BID ON THE TAGS. SPORTSMAN FOR FISH AND WILDLIFE HAD 50% OF THESE TAGS LAST YEAR. EVER WONDER WHY YOU DONT DRAW A TAG???
 
I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with the convention or the fact that they are being allowed the tags. One thing I want to point out though is this. All of the upto 200 tags being raffled off at the convention? None of them are being actioned off to the highest bidder. You can only put in one time for each tag. There is a $5 fee per application and you can apply for as many hunts and as many species as you would like but only one time for each hunt. Also, the 200 tags are not just big game animals and will include turkeys, swan, cougars etc...

I was at the RAC meeting when this was presented and approved. I have to admit that I wasn't all that ipmressed with the way nobody seemed to listen to the sportsman that voiced their opinions. It really did seem as if the decision was made long before it was even presented. That's not right.

One other thing I've noticed though is how quick people are to shoot things down without even giving them half a chance. We've all came up with our own ideas and solutions "I would gladly pay twice as much to hunt half as often" or "we should just shut the whole thing down for a couple of years" or "change the whole state to a 5 day hunt" or "make it a 4pt or better state wide" but it seems that nobody including myself has done one thing to make any of this happen! Besides not one of the ideas mentioned above are going to make a penny for wildlife, habitat enhancment and predator control. I'm definitely not claiming to be an expert on the subject by any means. To be honest I'm not even sure that all the money in the world would really change our situation all that much? We're already spending millions each year and apparently that's not nearly enough. The one thing that I do know for sure is this. We can't keep doing the same things year after year and expect different results.

I honestly don't know a whole lot about SFW but at least they're doing something! Ya maybe some of them are getting a pretty good kick back in the process but would you work all day for nothing?

Here is something that I've tried to consider. SFW pushed and made the Dedicated Hunter Program a go a few years ago. If it wasn't for them we wouldn't even have the program at all. When they presented it a whole bunch of people complained and said that it shouldn't happen at all for many reasons. Now it's a big success and both wildlife and hunters benefit greatly from the program. You couldn't pry it out of our cold dead hands and in the begining everyone was against it.

At this point the Conservation Program is a done deal for a minimum of 5 years basically. That's what the RAC approved and voted for in the RAC meeting. I guess all we can really do know is give it a chance. If after 5 years we feel that it has really tanked and not done a thing for the wildlife then we'd better be for doing something besides ##### about it! If we feel like it's been a success and that good things are coming from it then I guess we'll most likely find something else to ##### about...

I don't mean to rip on everyone about this so much but if we'd spend half as much energy coming up with solutions as we do complaining my guess is something positive might end up getting done! Think about it. If you sat at work all day and bitched and moaned about how things were being done do you think you'd end up getting anything done? Do you think you'd even have a job???

Ok. I'm done now. Fire away! :)

Good luck drawing a convention tag.

NvrEnuf
 
No one at the SE rac even spoke against it. I don't necessarily like the Idea that Non-Residents will have a crack at more resident tags. I am sure that I will see many of you at the convention in January. Like it or not most of us will not want to see 200 tags for anything given away without even having a chance to win them.

I think that we are way behind the game of habitat improvement and I support anything that will help us catch up. If this helps generate more money for habitat I will be pleased. It is interesting to see all of these conservation orgs come together.
 
MY CONCERN IS HOW FAIR IS THE SYSTEM. TURKEY FED. DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER AND MONEY TO GO AFTER THE CONSERVATION TAGS TO RAISE MONEY, BUT I SEE THE GOOD THEY ARE DOING WITH TURKEYS. I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A MORE FAIR WAY THAT ALL THE CONSERVATION GROUPS CAN GET THE TAGS AND RAISE MONEY. AT THIS TIME S.F.F.&W. GETS MOST OF THE TAGS. MULE DEER FED. IS SELLING THEM ON EBAY, WE DONT EVEN GET A CHANCE TO SEE THESE TAGS AND WHO GETS THEM.

I JUST THINK THAT THE NUMBER OF TAGS GIVEN OUT ARE TOO MANY AT THIS POINT AND TIME. I CONVERSATION WITH MIKE EASTMAN HE SAID THAT HE WILL FIGHT IF THIS HAPPENS IN WYOMING.
 
22BR,

I know there are several groups involved with the event in Utah. I am not certain, but I believe that the NWTF is a participating partner in the event. I know that the RMEF, Foundation for North American Wild Sheep, and MDF are involved. It was always an effort to get everyone working together and put an end to all of the fighting and bickering that has taken place between the conservation groups. It never has been only for SFW or it's members. In fact, anyone can attend and their is no membership requirement for entry or participation.

The cost is $5.00 per application. I would wager that this would allow most to participate. Some will apply for several hunts while some may only apply for a few; either way, it will be a chance at these hunts. The "rich" will not be allowed to obtain an advantage over anyone.

Why would it happen in Wyoming? As far as I know, no one has even talked about Wyoming getting Conservation tags or any program similar to them.
 
I would think there will have to be an entrance fee to cover facitlity cost. The rich NR is able to come to the convention, the average NR Joe can not afford to. And SFW has its foot in the door of WY. Sooner or later Don will ask for conservation tags. Can you imagaine a hunt near Calpet in Nov/Dec. Sad deal.

Yelum
 
Shawn do you really believe after 5 years if this thing flops that the public will get theses tags back. Nope there GONE! Sfw said its not fair that there be a AR 301 elk tag theres no waiting periods. What's this convention???
 
Russ, what do you mean the tags are gone? They will be raffled off and given back to the public at the Convention right? Seriously, maybe I missing something? Like I said in my previous e-mail. I'm not an expert on this stuff and don't really know much about SFW. I am trying to form my own opinion though and in doing so I am just trying to look at things from every angle.

I'm not familiar with the AR301 situation. What was the deal there?

Thanks,

NvrEnuf
 
I just dont think those 200 tags will go back in the drawing five years from now. We ALREADY have 20 TIMES the amount of consvervation tags than the next closest state. The people that should be pissed are KTC and guys who have MAX elk points who are going to let people bud in front of them. Like I said at the RAC, if these groups think this is great idea (convention) use your OWN TAGS, weve given you 322 already to be sold the the highest bidder why do you need 200 more????
The ar 301 was a archery elk tag of about five units there were no waiting periods OR bonus points if you didnt draw you got zero pts. SFW took this away because they said ALL tags should go into the drawing to be fair. Whats the convention the same thing. Russ
 
Like the Don said at the RAC, ?Hunting is big business?, end of story.

I can see the potential to raise a fair amount of money for wildlife through this Convention idea. But the way that is was proposed at the central RAC, I was ready to spit nails. From Alan Clarke?s proposal, I was left concerned, confused and outraged. And after Don finished, I felt like I had just been fisted! What with all his stats, and numbers, and all the good deeds he spoke of, surely the SFW has nothing but the best interests of the Utah sportsman in mind...Gimmie a break!

If the point of this Convention is to raise funds for wildlife, require all revenue generated by the application fees be used in Utah. If the conservation groups care about Utah?s needs, they will be more than willing to put the money to good use in the home state that it was generated. It is idiotic simply hope that a percentage of the capitol gain of the community will be ?given? back to our habitat issue?s. You can't honestly believe that the tax commission is going to re-appropriate funds over the next five years for wildlife plans when issue?s such as public education is always on the agenda? Wake up and smell the habitat loss people. What's that you say? There has already been some odd million dollars guaranteed to go to wildlife. All that tells me is that the decision has already been made and that this program is a go. And the spectacle we witnessed at the RAC was just going through the motions.

After seeing what takes place at a RAC meeting, I have to ask what we even have them for? There is very little public involvement, and what was said was completely disregarded by the council members. What a joke, out of twelve members, only seven were present. And only six were able to vote! And they had the audacity to call that a majority vote! Like one audience member said, the RAC is nothing more than window dressing!

The wildlife board directed the DWR to draft a program...They did. The DWR took it to the RAC?s for approval...It was approved. The DWR will now present it to the wildlife board for acceptance...They will accept it, funny how that works. I guess my point is, the powers that be are going to do what ever they see fit. And the sportsman and our wildlife are the ones that have to deal with the consequences. The tags are gone! If this somehow generates funds for Utah, great! I hope it does the trick. One other thing I find ironic is that this happens to be the year that the LE elk tags were increased. Wonder if we can get rid of some of those extra tags at the convention...



?It's all about the gut pile?
 
The thing I'm most concerned with is -WHEN IS IT GOING TO STOP?!Enough is enough already. All of these small incremental decisions are starting to add up in a big way.

There will likely come a day when individuals will be able to buy as many rafle tickets as they can afford for these new tags, and I think we're all smart enough to figure out that the ultra wealthy will more than likely end up with the majority of the tags.

I can hear the argument now. "If we let everyone buy as many raffle tickets as they want we'll raise more money for wildlife!" It's just around the corner boys, and the average joe is going to take it in the shorts again.
 
The convention is in January of 06 from what I heard. It ends on the 20th. It will be in SLC. It is my understanding that you can put in for the tags without entering the convention. The convention does have an entrance fee similar to ISE or something. In addition to the new raffle tags, existing conservation tags will be auctioned to the highest bidder inside of the convention.

I agree with the fact that you can not just show up to the rac and have your voice heard. If you want to make a difference, you have to educate yourself on the agenda issues and make the effort before the meeting.
 
I was disgusted by the political puppetry displayed at the RAC meeting in Springville.
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The argument I heard from the puppets on stage with the puppet master, was; "WHY NOT REWARD THOSE WHO MAKE GOOD FOR THE WILDLIFE HABITAT, THEY DESERVE IT BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY DO...LOOK AT OUR TRACK RECORD. THESE TAGS WILL RAISE MONEY.

For all the conservation group members out there... Thank you for your efforts to improve your area of emphasis. I do not doubt you serve a great purpose to the community for our wildlife habitat. YET, with this Convention Tag I ask you, "Are you still serving the community or being rewarded for your service. You will now have opportunity to hunt what I won't if I don't attend your convention.

I may not be the guy that goes to every meeting like you do... I may not be the guy that plants seed in a barren critical winter range....
I many not be the guy that takes my time off to go build a water trough in the desert...
I may not spend 5% on my earning or whatever amount I'm sure you do to go to the wildlife conservation effort all for my benefit of hunting.

HERE IS THE MISSION STATEMENT FOR SFW:
SFW Mission
Sportsmen for Fish & Wildlife and Sportsmen for Habitat, Inc. were organized to promote the protection and enhancement of wildlife habitat, the quality of wildlife management programs, and protect America?s family heritage of hunting and fishing.

I DO NOT DOUBT YOUR INTENTIONS... I belive they are TRUE AND JUST.
YET THE SAME CONSERVATIONIST OR YOUR LEADERS and our beloved DWR OR RAC LEADERSHIP is asking that WE INCENT you for your volunteer service. FRANKLY, isn't this what the dedicated hunter program is suppose to be. Aren't you tainting the service you are so willing to give? I don't read anything about if you give and if we help improve the habitat we will gain more opportunity to partake of the limited resource in tag allotment.

SFW: HELP ME protect my hunting heritage before I have less and less... I am the average joe... I can't attend your convention. I can't even get involved with the state's dedicated hunter program... but I can help in other ways... let me explain.

Let me ask you a questions:

While... your out planting seed and making that happen for my benefit...

Who is making the burger that your going to eat at McDonalds in Nephi?
Who is patroling the freeways for your safety?
Who is working gas station as you fill your Big rig to go plant seed?
Who is running the grader plowing the dirt roads so you can access the remote country your heading to?
Who is coaching your son's little league game for your future hall of famer?
Who is watching your sick grandmother in the hospital?
Who is teaching your son or daughter in school?
Who is attending insurance conventions on the same weekend your event is going on so when you die... you family has a plan?

Who is doing all the other areas of life so you can go CHOOSE TO BE A CONSERVATIONALIST or SFW or SPORTSMAN?

THE ANSWER?

HUNTERS JUST LIKE YOU.

WE are no different. We share the same desire you do. We would love to be in your shoes... Be supportive of the efforts your involved in. Yet, we have other roles in life. The common ground we share comes down to same passion we have to hunt. Just because I am not able to go plan seed on saturday doesn't mean I don't contribute to your consevation efforts. We live in community. We benefit each other... I benefit you.... you benefit me... We all need equal representation to the allotment of tags. Find a better solution to divide up the new tags being offered without mandating me to go to your support groups convention.

WHY ARE YOU USING TAGS AS INCENTIVE TO ATTRACT CONVENTIONS ANYWAY?
My feelings are this will help drive attendance or membership... you are making and striking deals with government officials on conventions and the likes... all so you can grow membership.. IS IT NOT AN INCENTIVE.... Ironically, you got my interest... if I can have a crack at the opportunity to go to your convention and thrown down five bucks for any animal and hope for a better shot at a tags... Why Won't I... BUT what if I can't attend. What if I have so much else going on that I can't possible get involved in another group such as yours. THE tags cannot be a dangling carrot to attract conservation groups to the state... WE have several other attractive incentives to do that... such as free skiing on public leased land by the forest service.... WHy not offer those... because they don't offer what your tags do. Why not give them free useage of all the camping in our state parks for a huge rally? The reason, because you want the average joe... your thinking is increase membership for your support groups. Drive some incentive to attract membership... clever, very clever. YES, their are other ways... Don, you know many ways to raise money... but none would drive membership to support groups unless they hit the hunters most prized possesion. The Animal. Give hunters a way to take a lifetime hunt only while they are members of your organization and they can have it... You do more for the state.... but for you to grow. You've got have a plan to grow. Most will come and join... I may even in the long run. But what about the patrolman, what about someone else who doesn't belong to the group... They are left out. Tags are in control by this committee, not the state.

Give us a voice..... A Real voice and we can come up with solutions that will impact all of UTAH not just your own agenda.
Your volunteer group should seek out things that do benefit all of the citizens in this state. Take a vote at the RAC... Make it public opinion. Take a public vote. We understand that the RAC members are appointed. File a motion to include public opinion... Don't hide behind your self-centered agenda. Seek out the true intentions of the hunters in UTAH... if any lobbying needs to be done.... perhaps they can start with us.

For future reference, why should I go to a meeting and have no say... Do I need to watch the muppet show? Is that a new requirement for the dedicated hunter to find out how DWR politics is run? I think am only wasting my time. I'd bet money no one would be there if you didn't have it a requirement to attend. Record number of attendance is only to sign your name on the form... No wonder you make them stay until the end. If we voice our opionion, you even threaten to throw us out. The public opinion was against Rule to pass regarding the Convention Tags... yet for the exception of one.... (Good strategy, Don) The panel had one vote against. He was the only non-bias, puppet on the stage.

THIS CONVENTIONAL TAG IS UNFAIR and DISCRIMINATING.

IN FAIRNESS: THESE conservation groups do tons more than I do or ever will do for wildlife habitat. Yet, they speak of our community... They are helping our future generation do what others can't do for themselves. GREAT.... WAY TO GO... GIVE YOUSELF A PLAQUE ON THE WALL. ELECT THE GREATEST GIVER AND CONTRIBUTOR to be yourPRESIDENT..... HELL, GIVE HIM ALL YOU FUNDS TO BE YOUR LOBBYIST. DO WHAT EVER THE HELL YOU WANT...EXCEPT, Take more from the general pool, the average joe.

YOUR OBJECTIVES stood out that these tages will 1)raise more funds for habitat and 2)give back to those that give and help in the conservation arena.

OTHER SOLUTIONS TO MEET SAME OBJECTIVE:
1) RAISE MORE MONEY.... offer every hunter in the state an opportunity to bid on these.... You'll have more money raised by average hunter than you will the convention goers.

2)YES, there were other solutions presented that night... WIll the be taken in consideration? Not a chance. Their decision is so bias, What a shame. What a joke... The crowd was outraged and their was only one vote that was against the entire event.


PROBLEM #1

WAS THE PURPOSE.

Geez,

Now I'm all fired up... enough of endless chit, chat. Someone forward this to Don. Nevermind... I'll send it myself.

GW4BOW

cc:
[email protected]
 
I believe they've struck a nerve this time!

Gary, funny you mention that about the requirment for dedicated hunters to attend a RAC. I would rather do another 10 hours of service than have to sit through another one of the "public" meetings. Cause apparently the only reason I was there was to watch the council members waffle on their concerns of the Convention Rule.

I'm not the one with all the answers, that's for sure. But I do hope and pray the the Rule will at least be revised to accomodate some of the concerns raised at the meeting...Good luck with that.


'It's all about the gut pile'
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-31-05 AT 00:19AM (MST)[p]Who is making the burger that your going to eat at McDonalds in Nephi?
McDonalds in Nephi?? Dang, I wish! LOL!
Interesting post, lots of different views and opinions! What now?
Later,
Elk
 

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