Mexico Muleys

L

lgriffiti

Guest
Anyone who follows mule deer hunting is aware of the monster bucks coming from Mexico. Does anyone know about the genetics of those bucks? Not to downplay these bucks but they just don't look like mule deer. I'm use to seeing swollen necks, Roman noses and huge bodies on trophy mule deer - not just racks. Sorry, they just don't hold the same mystic for me. It appears that hunting Mexico is similar to the "canned" whitetail hunts that you see on TV.

Personally, I like the idea of strapping on a backpack and taking my chances in some remote part of the Rockies. Does anyone share my sentiments or am I out on a limb?

-lgriffiti
 
A little birdy told me that most or some of those big muleys have been taken in high fenced areas. I don't have any facts but the source is a pretty good one.
 
I think you're out on a limb and I hope it's a strong one.

I've never hunted Muleys in Mexico, but I've hunted Coues down there a couple of times. Where we hunt is as steep and mean as anything I've hunted in the Rockies, probably more so.

From what I've seen and read those spanish speaking Muleys like the thick flats on the desert floors and it's more of a mental game than physical.

I hope to have an educated opinion on Mexican Muleys in the next five years.
 
I know what you're saying.. They are fun to look at, but I rarely read the stories behind them.. Paying that much money and often times driving around roads in a bucket on top of a truck doesn't interest me much..I know that any monster buck is tough to come by, but Mexico just isn't my cup of tea..it obviously is for many people though.. To each their own..We are all different..it would be boring otherwise!
 
That little birdy must be drinking too many cervesas. There may be some high-fenced stuff just south of Texas in whitetail only land, but I really doubt it beyond that.

The ranches are too big and it would cost too much money. I think the biggest problem is spotlighting down there.
 
I haven't hunted in Mexico but my friends love hunting there. I too prefer the high mountain country and love the big bodied linebacker bucks. But the Mexico hunts are after all the other hunts are over so if you can afford it I don't think any Muley Crazy person should not give it a try! Just stay away from the fenced ranches and night hunting I've heard of.
 
What I have found talking to other people is that more respect & credit is given for example to someone that kills a monster buck in the Rockies or the Strip than someone that kills a monster in Mexico. I don't know why, but Mexico Mule Deer hunting just seems.......different. It's almost like whitetail hunting back east. You open up a magazine & see 10 bucks taken out of Mexico that are all over 190 inches.....you're thinking to yourself, "this is unreal, does anybody kill anything smaller than 190? What happened to the days when a big mule deer buck was a hard trophy to come by?" That's what set Mule deer apart is that you didn't know many people that had killed a 190 buck. Big bucks down there just aren't a big deal anymore. Would I give my left nad to hunt in Mexico? Yes. But I'd give two nads to hunt the strip in my home state. Call me crazy.
 
Rocky Mountain Mule deer-big body
Desert Mule deer-smaller body
They both = MULE DEER

Yukon moose-big body
Canadian moose-smaller body
Shiras moose-even smaller body
They all = MOOSE

That's just my opinion.
But also in my opinion:
California Bighorn = California Bighorn
Rocky Mountain Bighorn = Rocky Mountain Bighorn

High fences and bright lights are everywhere, not just Mexico. Some people cheat there scores in golf, and some do it in hunting as well.
 
Ask someone who has actually hunted there before you start making unfounded judgements. The deer are smaller because they are desert mule deer. Genetically they are smaller in body stature to be able to shed heat. The opposite is true for Northern muleys. IMO however, the bodies are still not that small. The buck I killed weighed about 100 kilos. It sure didn't seem small after carrying him out whole, lodgepoled over a palo verde, for 2 kilometers in that country.

True, their are a few high fence ranches, but far more are open range. Most are as fair chase as it gets. Cattle is a huge industry in Sonora and most spreads are working cattle ranches.

The hunting is not your steep, high country above the timberline stuff, but it is difficult in its own right. You are tracking bucks in very thick brush, in pretty flat country without many high glassing points. You really have to have some woodsmanship (maybe cactusmanship is better suited) to get a shot at these deer. And when the shot comes it will most likely only be a split second opportunity before the deer vanishes. You have to decide if that is the buck you want, and then figure out how to make the shot, all at the same time.

The magazines and shows make it seem like 200" bucks are under every mesquite tree. Nothing could be further than the truth. I hunted with a very prominent outfitter (who is a friend of a friend) and he told me that guys who come there expeciting to walk out and kill a huge buck within a day or two will be sorely mistaken. He said that success is about 50% for a week-long hunt and a lot of those are "only" 160-170" bucks.

But the true beauty of hunting in Mexico is not the huge bucks. It is the mystique. The wonderful people, the living on a remote rancho, the sunrises over the Sonoran desert, the great food, and the step back in time. That is why I can't wait to go back.
 
Mexican mule deer are the same species that live in the Rockies, they have adjusted to their climate since the big bodies of our deer would over-heat & die down south, thus they have smaller body mass, similarly Canadian muleys tend to have larger bodies than ours because they require lower surface to volume ratio in order to stay warm during their cold winters, this phenomena is true to many animals that enjoy distribution over large latitude variations. Some smart feller named Bergmann documented this some time ago, thats why its known as Bergmann's rule.
I wouldn't know this $hit if I hadn't ventured to other parts & seen these differences myself.
Some fellers like same'ol, same'ol..... other fellers don't.
I'm a feller that don't, since I like trying/seeing new things.............one exception to that rule being my 'ol lady, don't need any strange in that category :)
 
If I only payed attention to the TV shows and magazine articles, I would think that there was a 190" buck under every tree in Utah and a 400" bull under every tree in Arizona. I think there are a lot of private land hunts you can go on that are properly managed so the hunter has a great opportunity at a 170" or better buck. I think what sets Mexico apart is the wonderful genetics that will grow those monster, wide mulies that a lot of places won't, no matter how well it is managed.
 
I dont even know how to respond to this post. I guess its true what they say that ignorance is bliss.

Drummond
 
My somewhat educated opinion is that the deer in Mexico get to grow up while the deer in the u.s. get pounded unless there are limits like in AZ on the strip or Kaibab where tag numbers are limited, they have the right food sources for big headgear along with the genetics.....deer dont get shot up as much in Mexico so they grow older and have great genetics........as to it being easy, the muley hunting on the average is easier in Mexico but the coues deer hunting can and is just as hard in the u.s. as it is in Mexico. In terms of high ranch hunts, there are some in Mexico but you would have to look hard for them because the typical ranch is 20 - 30,000 acres so nobody could afford to fence it for hunting......if it is a book type buck your after and you cannot get drawn in the states, then you try and figure out how to go to Mexcio and pay around 10,000 or go to Canada and have to use an outfitter for somewhere around 6,000, or buy landowner tags in the U.S. (or hope you hunt Santa Rosa before the Federal Gov. wipes the deer and elk out because they are non native) to me it comes down to opportunity to kill a monster buck and with the demand so high in the states, Mexico is the next likely place to at least have a tag in hand to kill a big buck. Mexico is not for everybody, but it really has its charm for alot of people, me included....... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
These bucks are big enough! We killed four and weighed them whole. The average was 273lbs. They look smaller because of the short hair. I just had mine mounted and the eye to nose measurment was 8 1/4 inch, that is huge! Small? I don't think so! Great time? hell yes! I love the high country, but Mexico is one place I hope everyone gets to experience.
 
I always thought they grew that big because they where impossible to find in the flat desert country with high brush, and it took a super natural mexican tracker to find them...

I would like to go just to eat some good mexican food and young mexican women. The desert is a magical place and so are desert deer.

Just day dreaming up here at a mile and a half above sea level..... Now I'm going to Taco Bell.

WB
 
LAST EDITED ON May-18-05 AT 08:05PM (MST)[p]The only thing I got to say is, I wish to hell I could afford to hunt mexico! I'd be on it like stink on you know what!
 
Sign me up I would go in a second. Growing up in Wyoming my favorite up to this point would be the rough broken river breaks country. I have hunted the high stuff quite a bit as well, but I really like being in that broken country. Im sure I would like tracking in the desert. Jamie
 
I love to hunt anywhere that I can. And I would love to experience Mexico. But you gotta love them Rocky Mountains. Thats why I moved West. fatrooster.
 
The new Muley Crazy issue says only 30 bucks shot over 200 inches this past season in Mexico. Doesn't sound like a high number to me. In the same issue there are 5 over 200 shot by 5 buddies in Sask. I personally know of many, many 200+ inchers taken in BC alone last year. And I know how hard the hunting is here. So, I would guess Mexico is probably just as hard. I really love seeing those wide bucks coming out of Mexico. We don't get many wide ones like that up here. If I had the resources I'd give Mexico a try in a heartbeat. I don't have the resources, so I guess I'm stuck chasing the 300+ lbs northern bucks.

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I don't know about Old Mexico but you can hunt the same deer here in Arizona less than 100 miles from the border. The ones that stick to the unglassable flats get to be well over 200 inches and have roman noses and look goofy just like all carp. Even though my coues deer killing relatives would laugh at me, I am here to say the big b@st@rds are SMART!!!! We don't have rifle rut tags here for them and without a bunch of people deer driving impenetrable mesquite thickets and cholla patches for you, you ain't going to kill them. I only see these deer before deer season by lucking into them and then only get 2 or 3 second glances at them and sometimes during the rut if your lucky you might catch them out in the daylight. I know I spent a bunch of days a few years ago in Oct and Nov(2-3 months before our rut) trying to kill 3 different whooper (all grossed over 180) bucks that lived in a 2 square mile thicket and never even saw them during the hunt. I walked more on that hunt than any other one I've ever been on trying to track them down and belly crawling through that jungle they live in and finally ended up skunked, at least I have a matched set of the smallest ones sheds from that year and with a 26 inch spread credit he netted 181. The tags are not that hard to draw and deer tags are still cheap I suggest you put in and test your theories out. Units 37A and B have them as well as all the 36 units and I am sure some other units down there that I do not know good will have them too. And do not wuss out and hunt the glassable hills, you might actually luck out and kill a 150-160 class buck doing that, stick to the flats and hold out for a 180 plus deer. Just watch out for the illegals and snakes and be prepared to walk. I think so many toads get whacked in Mexico because they have more habitat down there and you can hunt them in late December and January when they throw caution to the wind.

Bret M.
 
I've never hunted Mexico, but I'd sure like to go there. I've hunted in West Texas within 20 miles of Mexico, and it is great country. And the bucks were bigger bodied and heavier horned than I expected. I'm going to Canada in a few months, so I'll have a basis for comparison.

The biggest difference I can see is that in both Canada and Mexico, you can hunt muleys in the rut. So they seemed "more gentle." But I'm used to Wyoming and we can't hunt mule deer in the rut here, so it's an unfair comparison.

I still say management is the key. Looks to me like the deer in both Canada and Mexico are much better managed than Wyoming. I'd hunt mule deer in any area. In fact, I'd like to chase them north to the Yukon and south to Mexico every year.
 
Ok, I'm bored. It's spring and nothing to do but yardwork so I tried to stir things up a bit. Looks like I was successful.

My experience has been and always will be hunting the rugged terrain of the Rockies. Watching a monster buck at 11,000 ft, scurry across the rimrock and disappear over the skyline - that's what gets me excited. That is where my heart is and my opinion has not been shaken one bit.

In the meantime, if Mexico floats your boat, go for it!

-lgriffiti
 
Honestly, does anyone know what the average cost is, to hunt a good ranch in Mexico. I'll hunt muleys anytime anywhere.

Mike
 
LAST EDITED ON May-19-05 AT 10:00AM (MST)[p]Out the door you're looking at 10K or there abouts...

(Cough, cough, CHOKE)!!!
 
10k is a litle rich for my blood. At least for now anyway. Once you kill a trophy how hard is it to transport the meat cape and horns back into the US?

Mike
 
Its not difficult getting the cape and horns back across the border so long as the person you are hunting with has the knowledge and experience to provide you with the required paperwork. Its not a difficult process. The cost of the hunts in Sonora have gone up dramatically over the past 4 or 5 years, there are more people starting to go down there and with the competition the prices are going through the roof. If a person has the desire they can find a ranch and lease it for themselves for a fraction of the cost. Good permits can be found for anywhere between $2000 and $3500. If a guy does his homework and makes the right contacts they could hunt sonora every year and not break the bank. Its really not hard just time consuming doing the research, you might be surprised to find that it is not that difficult. As for desert mule deer, if you have never hunted them you owe it to yourself to try at least once. I was hooked when we rounded a corner one morning heading back to the ranch house and 19 does and a mid 30's, massive black antlered giant ran out of a creek bottom, that deer took my breath away and left me speachless for a bit. That was my second year down there and I have not looked back. Sonora has some breathtaking country and its amazing that such rough unforgiving country can produce the quality of deer that it does. If you dont want to go down just because of the hefty price tag I can understand that but if its just because you dont like desert deer then you are truely missing out on some of the best mule deer hunting in the world. I cannot imagine anybody that has a true passion for mule deer not wanting to give it a try.

Drummond
 
I was just kidding about my previous post, Mexico does have lots of magic. I said earlier that I would give my left you know what to hunt there, & I still will.
 
Well' you younger guys can leave Mexico to us older puds, with our bad knees and all, but I do yurn for the rockies even still...snif...snif...LOL...
 
huntsonora, did you kill that mid thirties black horned beast? What's the biggest you've killed n Mexico?
 
I am a ranch owner in Mexico and I can tell you, its breath taking. I have been hunting since I was a kid and being 25 now, I have still not killed a monster buck, maybe I am a lousy hunter but I give it all. A hunt is what you make of it, if you like driving on top a truck, glassing, stalking, what ever best works for you, I have tried it all, but most people prefer to do the least effort.

I have seen lots of really big buck but some times the terrain doesn't allow the shot. Most of the times I hunt by myself for two days at the most because I have to get back to work, the bucks are there but just have to keep looking for them. Here are two different scenarios at my ranch, both bucks are standing.

There are many places that aren't hunted in Mexico and have monster muleys, as huntsonora said you just have to do your homework.

Beto T.

www.angelfire.com/gundam/beto/buro-piri.jpg
www.angelfire.com/gundam/beto/buro-pirinola4.jpg
 
Bobcat,

We did not harvest that deer in fact we never saw him again but we did kill a different 35" deer on that hunt but it was on a different part of the ranch and it was not in the same league as the one we had seen previously. I have never personally harvested a deer in Sonora in fact I have never harvested a mule deer anywhere. Some of my clients have killed a few bruisers down in Sonora, many over 200" and we went back to back in O3 and 04 with nontypicals that grossed over 230" each year. Blind ass luck but we will dang sure take it. As for Betos ranch, it borders one of the properties that my partner owns and he has some gant deer on it. I know the guys that are hunting it this year and I am positive that they will kill a monster or two, these guys are great hunters. Again, its an amazing place to hunt giant mule deer and it is no cake walk to kill one of the big ones.

Drum
 

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