this is for all arizonans, and really all MULE DEER hunters. this fall residents of pinal county will have a chance to vote on the proposed willow springs development, just north of tucson. funny even though it`s closer to us- it`s in your county. this vote is the most important thing in my life- this is where my entire outdoor life has taken place, from learning how to make a campfire right, to how to cross over a barbwire fence without losing skin. my grandfather came into this unit in 1956, and my entire family has followed, from the years we celebrated thanksgiving around a campfire to taking my 1st deer. this area has it all, one of the largest quail populations in the entire state, and even though we are in a statewide drought- a large MULE DEER population. there have been over 50 MULE DEER bucks taken by my family alone, and 6 javelina`s- there also is a very healthy javelina population, also dove hunting is good. this rancher has never worked with any state agency, from poaching a MULE DEER spike who was eating in his garden on opening day of hunting season, to locking every single gate on state land- not even his land- STATE LAND. he is bordered on the west by the falcon valley ranch who is not selling or developing anything- EVER. the loss of this habitat to 800 homes, police stations, schools, and stores will decimate the entire population of mentioned animals. the town of tucson is already gobbling up land in every direction, especially north- with high dollar homes that have private security that won`t even let you drive down thier roads anymore- saddlebrook was once the best place to hunt/hike/ride, or just see the desert unspoiled- that is completley developed, and not done yet. those animals were displaced over 15 years ago, and they moved north- into willow springs. now willow springs is under attack. my point is this- when is enough enough, when are there too many grocery stores, how many circel k`s need to be on each corner- it`s up to you. the water table will not support a city this size, the roads will not handle the traffic, and the schools are already in bad shape. there are 3 old titan missle silo`s surrounding the proposed city, and the university of arizona was dumping thier hazardous waste in the area from 1955-1984. we wondered if my dad and gramps`s cancer was the result of them hunting and eating the game in this unit for 35 plus years ????? much less people who may live there and drink the already precious water. i am a hunter, fisherman, and avid outdoorsman- i only use this area (except for elk) to hunt all my game in, i would voluntareley help close this area off to hunting, or riding if it would mean the wildlife could stay- and the homes would not. this guy at the willow springs ranch is a money hound- plain and simple, he found a way to make a quick dollar, and screw the state/residents. i already took too long to write this- but it`s the most important letter i`ve ever wrote, so please take your time and do what`s right for all. we don`t need more homes, there are over 400 houses for sale in the all exclusive saddlebrook, and 342 in rancho vistoso, plus the 100`s in the city itself- any new folks could sure live there, and your pinal county taxes will not go through the roof paying for this. thank you. MICHAEL S. WAITE C/O WAITE RANCH, TUCSON-MARANA, AZ.
Michael, what's the status on this development now? I hunted the areas you have mentioned for archery deer this January and was disgusted with the development that was already there...my family has lived in Pinal county for over 60 years and in my short life (25 years) I have witnessed the total destruction of what was once pristine desert and great game habitat. I'm with Pinyon I think I'm outta here.
WE LOST !!!!! the evil developers won the court case. the residents of oracle are scared- and they should be. i was wrong the 1st letter i wrote- it`s not 800 homes, it is 19,000 single family homes. complete with thier own private police force, thier own schools, and food stores, etc. the studies still need to be completed about the water table, they may have to pipe the water in from the san pedro valley river, past 2 towns just to feed the willow springs city. the appeals judge threw out the signatures collected by the residents of oracle who tried valiantly to stop it, saying that a private landowner can do whatever he wants to no matter what affect it has on others. the state trust land that surrounds the ranch is also in jepardy, especially with the states budget shortfalls coming up. it will most likely be sold off or traded off for different land that is not in the way of progress. this is what has just happened on another ranch that is owned by the city of tucson, on the eastern side of town in the rincon mountains. it is called the "BELLOTA" ranch, it is also home to a huge javelina population, with a sizeable herd of my beloved desert MULE DEER. the city of tucson is over budget and is selling the ranch off, it bought the ranch to conserve the wildlife- now when they need money it`s the 1st thing to go. it is also a place thats been good to me, and a place i would help to stop hunting/driving/camping on if it meant no homes would ever be there. that a hard thing for me to say, as my dad took me there, and my sons been there now. but if it meant i could`nt hunt there ever again- but the deer and pigs could stay, i would sign up fast. it`s an issue that is fast becoming a worry for us all, it`s only starting here. it will not be long before the allmighty dollar takes all the ranches here. the azgfd is aware of both ranches, and publicly they "feel" bad, but they do nothing. the MULE DEER FOUNDATION was asked for money to do surveys on the willow springs ranch to maybe prove the deer are there, and how to save/help them. they decided it was not a worthy enough issue for them to spend our money on helping. they were asked by a couple of pretty high up people too, not just a sentimental guy like me. i hope the wyoming wintering area`s are o.k. because even on this site it is mentioned ALOT, and the foundations who sent money there are always looking for a pat on the back. they will not get it from me. i know the whole western united states are in a severe drought, we all know that. but when does it end, arizona`s "strip" and kiabab plateau are all anyone ever hears when large MULE DEER are discussed, it is not the only place in arizona where we have big bucks, or the only place in arizona where hunters go- but it is the only place i hear about needing help. that is not the case. 25 years ago the saddlebrook elderly housing development broke ground. it is north of catalina also, they have taken over 5 square miles of pristine desert animal habitat, those deer and pigs moved north into willow springs ranch- guess what, now there going to be moved again. they will not make it. there are 187 empty homes in saddlebrook right now, not including the ones being nuilt for more people. why can`t they buy those homes. just bulldoze more ground and make new homes while leaving the empty ones. therancho vistoso development is the biggest housing community in southern arizona. they have 377 homes for sale right now. but they are going to make a bigger development 10 miles north- willow springs city. i wonder how many homes will be empty there in my lifetime.
MICHAEL S. WAITE C/O WAITE RANCH, TUCSON-MARANA, AZ.
Michael, I have lived in many states in this country, Illinois, Texas, Florida, California, to name a few, and Arizona is THE MOST POLITICALLY CORRUPT STATE IN THE COUNTRY, without a doubt. There are more greedy people here than anywhere I have ever been in my life. In the 15 years or so, they have kicked two Gov. out of office, caught several state legislators in a bribery sting, buried the tax payers with a an alternative fuel scandel, John McCain has turned his back on the people that elected him and went liberal, etc. I have hunted in 37B many times. I have seen the biggest Mule Deer in this unit over any other, including unit 12. Not as many, but just as big or bigger. I will keep hunting it until they tell me to leave. They might even have to tell me more than once. What I don't understand is who in the heck would want to spend $150,000 for a home out there in all that cholla and prickly pear cactus? Where are these people gonna work? They gonna drive all the way to Tucson or Phoenix everyday? I would laugh like a crazed hyena if they lost every penny they invested. If you ever go up to Prescott Valley, you will see some pretty stupid looking subdivisions up there too, in what used to be the stomping ground for worlds best Pronghorn herd. There isn't a tree with 20 miles of some of these houses and they just sit out there an bake in the Arizona sun. UGLY, UGLY, UGLY and people pay way over $100,000 for these things.
You ever kill an Elk unit 10 yet? I had the cow tag last year. Worst hunt I have ever been on. Two weeks before the season started I was watching a herd of 75 elk that showed up like clock work every 2-3 days. It rained the week before the early hunt and those dang Elk scattterd to every corner of the earth. The meat processor in Williams told me that he had a total of 2 elk brought in from unit 10 in 4 days! Of coarse, within the 1st half hour of the hunt, I had a rag horn bull stare me right in the eye at 18 yards! With this winter rain, they should be a lot more predictable this fall. I hope I get a tag.
i feel your pain- especially with unit 10- i have hunted there 2 straight years now and have yet to see 1 live cow elk. i have seen an average of 15 bulls per year, all well within rifle range- 3 within archery range. it hurts me to know that i`m still going to apply there again this year- but i will out of spite. the meat cutters in williams have been a big help for me, mostly for pouring over the topo`s and picking out a spot to try. the warden- tim penders is the greatest guy of all, he`s gone above and beyond the call of duty attempting to at least put me where they are. i have been into the deer, and antelope in 10 every time i`m there. i met the guy from the trophy hunter article- mark, who owns the "world famous sultana" bar on main street. he guided the guy who shot that huge freaking bull next to the reservation, and had those problems getting the rack back from the indians. he`s sure a guy who knows unit 10, and he`s also a great help trying to get hunters into elk. i know for a fact that almost all the elk taken in unit 10 head into williams to get proccessed, you were right- even from other units around williams- no elk. groundbreaking has begun on the west side of the new development. it turns out that the falcon valley rancher did actually sell off 2 sections to the saddlebrook developers. they are building a new part of saddlebrook on the northside of oracle road just past the junction- that sucks anus`s. i can tell you 100% there are over 300 homes empty right now in the old saddlebrook- for sale right now, and in the rancho vistoso development there are over 1000 homes for sale, including the now infamous honeybee canyon. i do not understand why they have so many empty homes right now- and must kill off the desert to make more homes, for people who are`nt buying them. what the f*ck is up with that. it hurt badly when i found out about this deal, now im fuc*ing pis@ed off about it. i hear the biggest problem is going to be the water supply, other ranchers around there are saying they are wanting to pump water from the san pedro valley to the homes- hey now, that could`nt happen could it ????? what`s that 50+ miles away. and then that would deplete the water from mammoth, san manuel, oracle, san pedro valley residents, etc......... wow if that`s what they are thinking about- it may never get off the ground. but they have broken ground for saddlebrook north, where`s that water coming from ????? as far as the cholla cactus goes- heck they are clearing it away as i write this piece- it`s gone !!!!! if they can`t get water- ????? i can assure you that i will not go away when asked- or told. this is the only unit i`ve hunted for deer in my life, and in 1985 when me, and my dad, and gramps, and 2 uncles were stopped by antihunters- honking horns, banging pots, and shooting starter pistols in thier attempt to scare away the deer, right before i threw cow pies into a group, i vowed i would not be run off. i have`nt left yet. antihunters, or developers- f*ck `em. i did get my 1st big buck that weekend, he`s a neat 166" 4x5. i too have seen the biggest buck in my lifetime there among the jumping, and cholla cactus. i have`nt taken him though. now my son and i just returned from our javelina hunt- his 1st hunt ever, and we talked about the upcoming deer season. i asked him about applying for a juniors only hunt to maybe get a tag where there are more animals- he declined, saying that since gramps, dad, and me hunted and took our 1st MULE DEER there, he would rather camp, visit thier memorials, and try to get his 1st buck there than go somewhere else. that statement alone made my life. especially since we returned empty handed from a weekend of javelina hunting. we used to shoot archery tournaments in prescott- it`s very pretty there and i apply for antelope somewhere around there also- never get a tag in arizona though. i`ll let you know when the next developer smashing meeting is. lol.
MICHAEL S. WAITE C/O WAITE RANCH, TUCSON-MARANA, AZ.
50` wide brand new DIRT road, just bulldozed right through the desert, 4.5 miles east of oracle junction. this is called saddlebrook retirement community "north". this is`nt even the "BIG" willow springs development yet !!!!! it is however a freshly bladed 50+ foot wide construction road right through the middle of the desert. unfortunatley it has begun. MICHAEL S. WAITE C/O WAITE RANCH, TUCSON-MARANA, AZ.
It's really sad to see this happen. I went to an old pig spot behind Saguaro power plant by Redrock in January. I hadn't been there in about 4 years. There are now houses scattered all thru that country too.
heck i wish i had 135 million dollars- then i could have bought willow springs and stopped the developers dead. i only want 1 question answered- WHEN DOES IT END !!!!!
MICHAEL S. WAITE C/O WAITE RANCH, TUCSON-MARANA, AZ.
I think the only way they can be stopped is to get the "PETA" groups convinced that the developers are hurting animals. They are the only ones with the money and power......sad to say.
bowhuntinmaniac, I don't think that is true statement at all. PETA is an animal rights organization. They don't care about stuff like this. Habitat is not their concern. I realize you probably weren't totally serious with that statement, but there are good organizations that do preserve critical wildlife habitat such as this. Groups like the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, the Mule Deer Foundation, the Nature Conservancy, and I would think this is something the Sierra Club might get involved in also. It's too bad more of us hunters don't support habitat oriented organizations like these. They could do a lot more if all of us would contribute to them whatever we can afford.
Try an organized protest of destruction of the desert habitat. If youcould get media coverage it might get some notice. Just a thought but it does sound a bit on the liberal side.
Bob D hit the head on the nail. If you don't already belong to and support one of the good conservation groups you should. I think it is kind of pathetic that the RMEF membership is only about 150,000 total. Where in the heck are the rest of you guys?
Sponsor Member RMEF Member MDF, CMDA, DU, and The Nature Conservancy
hey- i`ll say this with 110% freaking accuracy. i am a member of the NRA, MDF, RMEF. the nature conservancy is the biggest "BLOW HOLE" anyone person ever sent money too- EVER !!!!! and for the rest of the afformentioned organs- THEY WERE ASKED, they were asked by the residents of oracle arizona, they were asked by me (a member, and the other 3 members of my family), but most importantly they were asked by members of our own arizona game and fish department acting on both the states behalf- and thier own behalf- being hunters themselves. we were told the MDF was already using there- OUR money on some winter ground project in freaking wyoming- or montana- or both. the rmef did not respond to me, but they did respond to the others saying that in this desert region they don`t invest much in the way of money unless more than 1 animal is affected. the nature conservancy was not asked, as after seeing what they did- are doing, to private land owners/ranchers/farmers in buehman canyon- i would rather see homes there instead of seeing them "fake it" by telling us they`re saving it- then changing the zoning and selling it anyway. so actually the only "organ" that was`nt asked was peta. that makes me sick as well. i know they are the only ones who could have done something about it. lets have some honesty around this site- rmef, nra, mdf do some good things with "our" money- if "they" decide it is a valuable project- we don`t get to vote, only a token suggestion is even considered. fact of life is that the desert MULE DEER do not rank as high on the "needs" list as the rocky mountain mule deer, or the elk, or hell even antelope. therefore we cannot expect to see improvements done in 99% of they`re areas- period. the water hauling project in northern arizona last summer was a good thing, but it is the only thing i have heard of in arizona, and we have ALOT of elk habitat right ? they hauled water into high elevation, high animal density, high hunting density units. they did not haul water into desert lowlands where the drought is harder, longer, and does not have the prospect of any snowfall in the winters. the desert has been twice as dry for twice as long as northern arizona- nothing- period. there is a water hole by my campsite that has been full since 1959- we stocked catfish in it in 1985, fish in it every year- except 2002, it was bone dry- and had been for awhile. no water hauling here. in 1984 the #10 p&y MULE DEER 172 3/8" in arizona was taken near this tank. in 1985 my 166" also fell. 1995 my 179 1/8" also, and at least 1 or 2 3x3`s or bigger every year in between, totaling 74 bucks and 2 does in 43 years by the 6 of us family members- pretty good overall odds of taking a deer. this is an ok deer hunting unit now, it was a great deer hunting unit. this fall instead of scouting i will be looking for a new place to go deer hunting, as there will be homes there- and very expensive ones too boot- only board members of the rmef/nra/mdf will be able to afford to live there- hey waite a minute................................
MICHAEL S. WAITE C/O WAITE RANCH, TUCSON-MARANA, AZ.
i also watch the weekend hunting shows- like elk country journal, mossy oak, realtree- etc...... they show the "ranches" the rmef buys to "save" the important wildlife species- elk, muleys, `lopes, rabbitts, ducks, etc. they show how they are geared for conservation. has anyone bought ANY "ranches", "allotments", "leases", "ANYTHING" in arizona, EVER ????? i don`t know of anything anyone has bought other than private individuals, and the arizona game and fish departments "sipes" ranch- in northern arizona. the city of tucson is selling the bellota ranch that they bought out in 1999. no bidders from any wildlife organization have appeared. none. i guess desert animals have it different, no huge meadows, giant pine groves, big sage flats, no "multi species" = NO SALE. there are huge desert MULE DEER on the bellota ranch, large herds of javelina, big coveys of quail, good dove flightways, and even the stupid little coues deer. it`s next. there will be a time when the only desert MULE DEER will be in mexico- or indian reservations, and you`ll pay 5k plus to go and hunt them. we have the game to hunt, but were selling the land they live on- so we will not have the game for long.
MICHAEL S. WAITE C/O WAITE RANCH, TUCSON-MARANA, AZ.
I feel your pain, my point was that with only 140,000 RMEF members nationwide, less in the MDF, that we hunters as a group are not very good at spending our money to help with conservation. There just isn't enough money to go around in these groups yet and maybe never. Michael, I'm proud of you for being an voice advocating conservation, don't let this make you bitter, we need more hunters like you.
It is sad, I agree. You need to realize one thing though, PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) WOULD NOT have done anything if asked. Conservation of wildlife habitat is not what they are concerned with. They are for "animal rights," not protection of habitat. I promise you, they couldn't care less about wildlife habitat. Just wanted to be sure that everybody understands what PETA is all about. They are not friends of wildlife, like hunters are.
i will agree with that, however i don`t send them money each year to be a member- but i`m sure they would have at least sent me a response telling me to go "f*ck" myself. that would have been better that NOTHING, which is what i received from these groups i do send money too. i think i would like to know where the 140,000 members of the rmef live geographically. like wyoming, montana, utah, etc..... then look at a current project funds list. i`m wondering if people don`t join these organizations because they think they`re money will go to a state other than thiers to fund projects, and things in thier state won`t get done. just curious. i was naive` in thinking that when a state agency asks for something they would at the very least get a shot at funding, i wonder what did get funded and where it was. can i request a funding list from these organizations, or is a list on a website somewhere, is there a certain person with whom to single out for future projects that might need funding ?? i am not trying to be bitter, but just driving down the highway in this city/state just makes me freaking sick to my stomach anymore, i cannott get out of my mortgage just yet- but i can assure you- as soon as i won`t lose money- i am going somewhere else. i was in northern utah 2 years ago and it was crowded. i was in eastern wyoming last year and it reminded me of what tucson used to be like when i was a kid- i would love to live in lusk/torrington/ft laramie wyoming. maybe someday i guess, i won`t be around tucson when we hit 2 million people (within 1 1/2 years easy) but this stupid city keeps going outward. farmers who had cotton fields and cattle pens 500 acres each, as short as 1 year ago are gone- there are apartments there right now. it only takes 8 months to build and move people into a 1000 unit complex. my original question still remains- when will it end ????? but i think i already know the answer. MICHAEL S. WAITE C/O WAITE RANCH, TUCSON-MARANA, AZ.
this place i`m talking about is just north of oracle arizona- it is where the big fire is heading directly into. now that mount lemmon is basically gone- the fire has taken out radio ridge, the top of the world nearest tucson. it is home to communications towers for the sheriffs dept, az dept of public safety (dps), 6 cell phone towers, our local trauma centers tower, and a huge multi million dollar observatory. last year a different fire took out a huge part of the same mountain, hunting unit 33. it was called the bullock fire, the current fire now- the aspen fire, is getting everything the 1st one missed, and alot more. this fire is devastating. it has effectively removed almost every single 100 year old pine tree in an 11,500 acre area. it is not done yet, it is going to be another 2-3 weeks to put out. this fire damage will not heal in my or my sons lifetime. the area i hunt javelina in is where last years fires almost wiped off the map, this new fire is going right where the other one stopped. if it left to be- the town of oracle arizona will be gone within 3 days. willow springs ranch is just across a paved highway from the town of oracle. if the fire hits oracle it will sweep through the flat grasslands of willow springs ranch, and falcon valley ranch like they are not there- and they will not be. oracle is 4 miles away from the fire line right now, and the fire is heading right downhill directly into it. with the winds doing most of the work the fire has doubled in 24 hours, i don`t know how to be optimistic about it anymore. should oracle fall- we will not need to worry about my MULE DEER unit 37b anymore. the developers will have most of thier work done for them. the building total as of 10 pm news is 310 gone, including the lodge/hotel/bar on mainstreet summerhaven, and mount lemmon`s famous ski lift is also history. and officials are telling us it won`t be controlled for 2-3 weeks still. there is a huge population of coues deer and javelinas, and even my beloved MULE DEER in this hunting unit 33, after most of them survived last years 100,000 acre fire i don`t know if any or how many will make it through this one. the 2nd and 3rd day the fire doubled in size in 12 hours, very fast- i hope they got out- or hopefully moved over into unit 37b. of course then they will be moved from there when the developers start- lucky to be game animals huh ????? MICHAEL S. WAITE C/O WAITE RANCH, TUCSON-MARANA, AZ.
hello, i am wondering if any of you could possibly show me the state land permit- or permit number, you must have gotten prior to riding your little bicycles all over the willow springs ranch ? ? i am curious about that. i am a tucson native who has been RIFLE HUNTING at the willow springs ranch for over 42 years. for the last couple of years i have been picking up pieces of plastic "banner" material, and other assorted trash and garbage, and seeing bicycle tracks on cattle trails everywhere- along with open gates. after speaking with the arizona game and fish department i was told to "get a name of who is out there" they are not allowed on state trust land without a valid arizona hunting license- or a state land use permit. "they" must have that in order to even drive down those roads. there are more than 4 HIGH POWERED RIFLE HUNTS THAT TAKE PLACE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF WILLOW SPRINGS RANCH. now i can say from personal expierence that during my 2002 RIFLE MULE DEER HUNT i personally spotted my deer and took aim only to have to pull off the shot because there were 3 PEOPLE riding thier little bicycles right behind the deer- now safety says always know your target and beyond, this was a perfect example of that. those people never knew there were camoflaged hunters in the same field they were in- and we were hunting with RIFLES !! those people never knew they were in a hunting unit- during a legal rifle hunting season. the willow springs ranch leases most of the actual ranchland from the state of arizona. the state of arizona requires a land use permit to even be on that land- do you have a state land use permit ?? the state of arizona must check with the arizona game and fish department to find out if a valid rifle hunt is scheduled- if there is one- a people riding bicycles permit cannot be issued !! now i can tell you this for sure- there are hunting "accidents" every year, and a bicycle rider crouched over on his bike is about the same height as a deer- so if i was a little bicycle rider i would be very very careful about riding around in the middle of ranchland during a RIFLE deer or javelina hunt !!!!! also if there are any peta members out there reading this article- i did finally take that deer i wrote about, and after i shot it you could have heard a pin drop around those little bicycle riders- they had absolutely no idea what happened, it seems no one told them the desert they were riding in was state hunting land. i hope there are no accidents !!!!!
I'd like to respond:
There are no "State hunting lands" in Arizona, The area near willow springs ranch is State Land Trust Land. Hunters are one of the "permitted users" of the area, if they have a valid license, and are actively pursuing game, during season. Arizona has no jurisdiction or control of this land, only of the hunters.
The mountain bikers using the area have valid state land trust permits, at least every one I know personally. I have two one "family" I leave in my car and one "individul" in my wallet. State land use permits are good for a year and there is no provision "checkn for a scheduled hunt". The permits aren't conditional on Michael's whimsey or desire to hunt a specific day
I am also a hunter, and I know it's every hunters responsibility to hunt in a safe manner. Here Michael S. Waite is threatening people, and continuing to hunt in an area he knows is heavely trafficed. If he shoots anyone, at this point he's looking at a murder charge. The specific area is a small part of the Willow Springs ranch where a state approved mountain bike course is setup. The area is a small part of Willow springs ranch.
1st thing- if you are what you say you are "a hunter" then you also should be more than a little concerened- have you ever had a "little bicycle rider" ride between you and a deer- during the rifle hunt- anywhere ???? i did`nt think so. if you are one of the people who goes out there and rides your little bicycle around in willow springs then you are even more shamefull than the others- have you went out 2 months after your events and picked up garbage ????? i have buttwipe. plastic banners, little rocks with bicycle reflectors glued to them laying in the middle of the roads. my position is the same- you do not belong there !!!!! you do not hunt there !! and you do not pick up after yourself, which is the 3rd rule of hunting on someone elses land. you little bicycle riders destroy the hunt by having 3500 spectators, 1200 riders, vendors, idiots- all over the place. if you are a hunter then you know you pay for your tags, license, scouting trips, etc- then on opening morning when you are pulling a stalk on a buck- 2 little bicycle riders ride in between you and the deer- they have no idea either you or the deer are there- they have no idea they were almost shot- luckily the hunter- me looked beyond his target for safety- you should have seen thier eyes when i had a safe clear shot. i am telling you - you should not be riding your little bicycle on state trust land in the middle of my rifle hunt !!!!! take that however you want. there have been many discussions with the appropriate state agency- and i would expect to have you licenses checked when you get there- dumbass !!!!! MICHAEL WAITE, MARANA, AZ.
Email this topic to a friend
Printer-friendly version of this topic
Bookmark this topic (Registered users only)
