feddoc
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 7,225
Bundy trial
- Thread starter feddoc
- Start date
My current situation precludes me from caring about your opinion but go ahead and give voice to it anyway...
The jack boots lose, even with all the wheels greased in their favor...
Next time they should just kill them all, is being brought up in the meetings already happening, look how well WACO went by comparison.They will say. Now THAT is how you wrap up a "matter".
And it will fall on fertile ears.
Regardless of what you think of the Bundy family, the feds were out of line the way they went about trying to get them prosecuted. Wire taps, parabolic antenna, "kill lists"? Is this really the power we want the feds to have over people?
Ruby Ridge and Waco were both treasonous acts by people wanting to send a message. But history always shows that when American's get pushed into a corner they will bite. We hate being told what to do.
https://getpublished.pro/blogs/news/dan-love-now-a-whistle-blower
Shooting ▪ Handloading ▪ Gun Repair & Maintenance ▪ Hunting ▪ Pro 2A Advocate ▪ Self-Reliance Gun Culture
https://www.youtube.com/user/mannyCA
Ruby Ridge and Waco were both treasonous acts by people wanting to send a message. But history always shows that when American's get pushed into a corner they will bite. We hate being told what to do.
https://getpublished.pro/blogs/news/dan-love-now-a-whistle-blower
Shooting ▪ Handloading ▪ Gun Repair & Maintenance ▪ Hunting ▪ Pro 2A Advocate ▪ Self-Reliance Gun Culture
https://www.youtube.com/user/mannyCA
Wiszard
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,897
If I remember correctly, this was one of those, "get your cows off this federally owned land" or something like that? Feds wanted the land back or something? Guess we know who the Indian givers are.....still. 
Cancer doesn't discriminate...don't take your good health for granted because it can be gone in a heartbeat. Please go back and read the last line. This time really understand what it says.
Cancer doesn't discriminate...don't take your good health for granted because it can be gone in a heartbeat. Please go back and read the last line. This time really understand what it says.
I heard this was a "hand-picked" liberal judge so the Feds thought they could get away with anything. I also heard that it was actually one of those "get your cows off this federally owned land, because we think there might be some endangered tortoises out there somewhere (that were never found)". I don't think the BLM or the Forest Service need their arrogant, out-of-control private army of "Law Enforcement (wannabees)" -- seems like the local Sheriff Offices and REAL Law Enforcement Officers would be a much better use of all that "free" taxpayer money.
2lumpy
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 7,999
Sorry gentlemen, I disagree.
The Feds may not have handled the process properly but I think Mr. Bundy belongs in jail, and had he obeyed the law from the began many many years ago none of this would have happened. He has been allowed to defy the law and get away with it for far too long. If you or I did what Mr Bundy has be doing, long before the round up and confrontation, we'd all been in the slammer.
I don't care for Federal over reach and government abuse but in Mr. Bundy's case, I think Mr. Bundy is wrong, whether the Feds erred in how they attempted to bring him to justice or not. The first mistake was made by the Feds. over 20 years ago when Mr. Bundy chose to take the law into his own hands and the Feds didn't hold him accountable at that time.
In my opinion Mr. Bundy has been allowed to thumb his nose at the entire public land system, he'll get no sympathy from me. He's no freedom fighter, in my opinion.
DC
The Feds may not have handled the process properly but I think Mr. Bundy belongs in jail, and had he obeyed the law from the began many many years ago none of this would have happened. He has been allowed to defy the law and get away with it for far too long. If you or I did what Mr Bundy has be doing, long before the round up and confrontation, we'd all been in the slammer.
I don't care for Federal over reach and government abuse but in Mr. Bundy's case, I think Mr. Bundy is wrong, whether the Feds erred in how they attempted to bring him to justice or not. The first mistake was made by the Feds. over 20 years ago when Mr. Bundy chose to take the law into his own hands and the Feds didn't hold him accountable at that time.
In my opinion Mr. Bundy has been allowed to thumb his nose at the entire public land system, he'll get no sympathy from me. He's no freedom fighter, in my opinion.
DC
>Sorry gentlemen, I disagree.
>
>The Feds may not have handled
>the process properly but I
>think Mr. Bundy belongs in
>jail, and had he obeyed
>the law from the began
>many many years ago none
>of this would have happened.
> He has been allowed
>to defy the law and
>get away with it for
>far too long. If
>you or I did what
>Mr Bundy has be doing,
>long before the round up
>and confrontation, we'd all been
>in the slammer.
>
>I don't care for Federal over
>reach and government abuse but
>in Mr. Bundy's case, I
>think Mr. Bundy is wrong,
>whether the Feds erred in
>how they attempted to bring
>him to justice or not.
>The first mistake was made
>by the Feds. over 20
>years ago when Mr. Bundy
>chose to take the law
>into his own hands and
>the Feds didn't hold him
>accountable at that time.
>
>In my opinion Mr. Bundy has
>been allowed to thumb his
>nose at the entire public
>land system, he'll get no
>sympathy from me. He's
>no freedom fighter, in my
>opinion.
>
>DC
+1
#liveawesome
>
>The Feds may not have handled
>the process properly but I
>think Mr. Bundy belongs in
>jail, and had he obeyed
>the law from the began
>many many years ago none
>of this would have happened.
> He has been allowed
>to defy the law and
>get away with it for
>far too long. If
>you or I did what
>Mr Bundy has be doing,
>long before the round up
>and confrontation, we'd all been
>in the slammer.
>
>I don't care for Federal over
>reach and government abuse but
>in Mr. Bundy's case, I
>think Mr. Bundy is wrong,
>whether the Feds erred in
>how they attempted to bring
>him to justice or not.
>The first mistake was made
>by the Feds. over 20
>years ago when Mr. Bundy
>chose to take the law
>into his own hands and
>the Feds didn't hold him
>accountable at that time.
>
>In my opinion Mr. Bundy has
>been allowed to thumb his
>nose at the entire public
>land system, he'll get no
>sympathy from me. He's
>no freedom fighter, in my
>opinion.
>
>DC
+1
#liveawesome
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 36,994
And I Asked years ago why Bundys were not made to Pay Up Years/decades ago!
Nobody has ever Answered the Question,Not even #### & ######!
I Knew when the BLM went in to Round Bundy's Cattle up the Sshhiittt was gonna hit the Fan!
That's as Close as you can get to not getting somebody Killed!
Now there's Quite a few wanting to do what Bundy has done forever!
A Few of them are looking for nothing more than Big Law Suits!
And this is what they're thinking:
(((If Bundy's done it for all these years,I'm gonna do it Too!)))
So My Question is this:
How they gonna Prosecute the NEWBIES that are gonna Do it when they haven't done anything to the Bundy's in Decades?
Let the Prejudice Suits Pile Up!
Nobody has ever Answered the Question,Not even #### & ######!
I Knew when the BLM went in to Round Bundy's Cattle up the Sshhiittt was gonna hit the Fan!
That's as Close as you can get to not getting somebody Killed!
Now there's Quite a few wanting to do what Bundy has done forever!
A Few of them are looking for nothing more than Big Law Suits!
And this is what they're thinking:
(((If Bundy's done it for all these years,I'm gonna do it Too!)))
So My Question is this:
How they gonna Prosecute the NEWBIES that are gonna Do it when they haven't done anything to the Bundy's in Decades?
Let the Prejudice Suits Pile Up!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 36,994
Another thing that Cracks me up is this!
We got people on this Site sayin they Ain't done with Cliven!
And I Quote:
"Wait Till Oregon gets done with Him"!
Cliven didn't do SQUAT in Oregon!
"Wait Till Nevada's done with Him"!
Well!
We're Still Waitin,Ain't We?
No I'm Not Sayin He's Right!
But is it Fair for some people to break laws for years when others wouldn't get away with it for one day?
We got people on this Site sayin they Ain't done with Cliven!
And I Quote:
"Wait Till Oregon gets done with Him"!
Cliven didn't do SQUAT in Oregon!
"Wait Till Nevada's done with Him"!
Well!
We're Still Waitin,Ain't We?
No I'm Not Sayin He's Right!
But is it Fair for some people to break laws for years when others wouldn't get away with it for one day?
2lumpy
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 7,999
LAST EDITED ON Jan-17-18 AT 05:52PM (MST)[p]"But is it Fair for some people to break laws for years when others wouldn't get away with it for one day?"
When you let a little bully get away with taking your lunch, he grows into a nasty monster, gets new friends and eventually comes for your eyeball.
These kinds of things go on constantly because the public doesn't like to deal with bullies, until they take 90% Asia, etc. then they shake and cry over a potential nuclear war.
How in hell was Mr. Bundy been allowed to do what he is doing? How in the hell was Kim allowed to do what he is doing?
Bullies are bullies, in the deserts of the south west or on a peninsula in Asia, they don't stop until they get the crap beat out of them.
We never learn a thing from history, in our back yard or across the world, and we have to make the same small and large fights, over, an over, an over, an over, an over, an over.............................. Madness.
Yes................... you are absolutely right BobCat, and those new friends of Mr. Bundy have been watching and learning and are, as we speak, starting to behave exactly like him and they too are getting away with it. The Bundy movement is just getting started, and if you think the State of Utah's effort to transfer public land from the Feds was a monster, stand back an watch what these public land renters have got in store of us.
DC
When you let a little bully get away with taking your lunch, he grows into a nasty monster, gets new friends and eventually comes for your eyeball.
These kinds of things go on constantly because the public doesn't like to deal with bullies, until they take 90% Asia, etc. then they shake and cry over a potential nuclear war.
How in hell was Mr. Bundy been allowed to do what he is doing? How in the hell was Kim allowed to do what he is doing?
Bullies are bullies, in the deserts of the south west or on a peninsula in Asia, they don't stop until they get the crap beat out of them.
We never learn a thing from history, in our back yard or across the world, and we have to make the same small and large fights, over, an over, an over, an over, an over, an over.............................. Madness.
Yes................... you are absolutely right BobCat, and those new friends of Mr. Bundy have been watching and learning and are, as we speak, starting to behave exactly like him and they too are getting away with it. The Bundy movement is just getting started, and if you think the State of Utah's effort to transfer public land from the Feds was a monster, stand back an watch what these public land renters have got in store of us.
DC
Dang I pay $25-32.00 per AUM Rent for pairs or bred cows. 2.89 a month sounds pretty reasonable. Lol. Bundys had it easy. Both parties were at fault. However not paying your bills doesn't give you a lot to stand on. If they paid bills then fought the Feds in court I may have some sympathy.
2lumpy
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 7,999
LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-18 AT 09:38PM (MST)[p]You lost me HasBean ;-) Sorry, I'm not the brightest bulb in this drawer.
Math .....
The federal grazing fee is adjusted annually and is calculated by using a formula originally set by Congress in the Public Rangelands Improvement Act of 1978. Under this formula, the grazing fee cannot fall below $1.35 per animal unit month (AUM); also, any fee increase or decrease cannot exceed 25 percent of the previous year?s level. (An AUM is the amount of forage needed to sustain one cow and her calf, one horse, or five sheep or goats for a month.) The grazing fee for 2016 is $2.11 per AUM, as compared to the 2015 fee of $1.69.
The grazing fee applies to federal lands in 16 Western states on public lands
managed by the BLM and the U.S. Forest Service.
So........
Let's say Bundys have been running 500 cows. Let's say they run them on BLM for 9 months a year. Let's say the average ihas been $1.65 per month.
500 cows x $1.65 per cow per month = $825 per month.
$825 x 9 months per year = $ 7,425 per year to run 500 cows on BLM.
Hoe many years? Haven't checked. Let's say he hasn't paid for twenty years.
$7,424. x 20 years = $148,500
Add in Interest, fines, round-up costs, court costs =. ??????
Bottom line = Pay your yearly AUM fees, like 99% of the Multiple Us users do and be darn glad its only $7425 a year.
It's not about the money, it's about who owns the rights to the land and the forage. These guys are trying to leverage anti-Federal sentiment to justify bad behavior.
And I'm no liberal an I hate government over reach.
DC
Math .....
The federal grazing fee is adjusted annually and is calculated by using a formula originally set by Congress in the Public Rangelands Improvement Act of 1978. Under this formula, the grazing fee cannot fall below $1.35 per animal unit month (AUM); also, any fee increase or decrease cannot exceed 25 percent of the previous year?s level. (An AUM is the amount of forage needed to sustain one cow and her calf, one horse, or five sheep or goats for a month.) The grazing fee for 2016 is $2.11 per AUM, as compared to the 2015 fee of $1.69.
The grazing fee applies to federal lands in 16 Western states on public lands
managed by the BLM and the U.S. Forest Service.
So........
Let's say Bundys have been running 500 cows. Let's say they run them on BLM for 9 months a year. Let's say the average ihas been $1.65 per month.
500 cows x $1.65 per cow per month = $825 per month.
$825 x 9 months per year = $ 7,425 per year to run 500 cows on BLM.
Hoe many years? Haven't checked. Let's say he hasn't paid for twenty years.
$7,424. x 20 years = $148,500
Add in Interest, fines, round-up costs, court costs =. ??????
Bottom line = Pay your yearly AUM fees, like 99% of the Multiple Us users do and be darn glad its only $7425 a year.
It's not about the money, it's about who owns the rights to the land and the forage. These guys are trying to leverage anti-Federal sentiment to justify bad behavior.
And I'm no liberal an I hate government over reach.
DC
Gator
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 18,131
Hard not to make money running your cattle on a ton of free grass. Where does a guy sign up for that hand out.
I guess it a kick in the nuts for every rancher who did follow the law.
YEP he is a thief plain and simple.IMHO
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
I guess it a kick in the nuts for every rancher who did follow the law.
YEP he is a thief plain and simple.IMHO
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
eelgrass
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 31,441
I don't think Bundy was just trying to bilk the Feds out of his grazing fees. I think it started out as a form of protest..and then the late fees and penalties and fines...he kind of screwed himself. He got so deep he couldn't back out.
He thought for sure John Wayne was going to ride up and defend him...Sorry Cliven it doesn't work like that anymore.
I wonder what the Feds are doing about the wild horses tromping on the tortoises?
He thought for sure John Wayne was going to ride up and defend him...Sorry Cliven it doesn't work like that anymore.
I wonder what the Feds are doing about the wild horses tromping on the tortoises?
NVBighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 9,458
LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-18 AT 06:42PM (MST)[p]Hasn't paid since at least 1993.
Runs year round outside. 12 months. Those cows have never see a stick of hay.
Edit: The articles out today say there are still 100 head out there (fake news). I'm pretty sure the BLM rounded up and then turned a lot more than that loose in 2014. I have seen numbers more like 750 in past articles.
Runs year round outside. 12 months. Those cows have never see a stick of hay.
Edit: The articles out today say there are still 100 head out there (fake news). I'm pretty sure the BLM rounded up and then turned a lot more than that loose in 2014. I have seen numbers more like 750 in past articles.
2lumpy
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 7,999
LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-18 AT 07:38PM (MST)[p]I'd be more tolerant if I believed it was a form of protest, eel.
If we're going to guess, I'll give my "probables", which, along with a dollar and seven cents, you can buy a diet Coke at McDonalds.
I think Mr. Bundy didn't like the BLM guys telling him what he needed to do on his alotment, regarding where to graze, when to graze, where to put in water systems, where to put build corals, what dates to turn out and what dates to move to different pastures, etc. etc. which he agreed to do when he signed up for the lease. Every lease agreement, every mining lease, timber lease has stipulations that the parties agree to adhere to. I'm guessing Mr. Bundy didn't want to deal with the stipulations, for a lot of reasons, one being they cost him money. The extra dollars he was required to spend, out of his own pocket add to the cost of running his cows on the BLM, they are extra to the AUM fees, but well understood and part of why the BLM and USFS keep the AUM fees so low, to help the grazer keep up with the stipulations that the BLM required. "Probably", Mr. Bundy was in constant quarrels with the BLM administrators. Not just now and again but I'm guessing he throw a fit just about ever time they ever dealt with him.
I'm guessing he was in constant conflict with individuals within the BLM, battling over what "your making me do" and "your abusing me".
(Why do I think this was "probably" taking place? Because for 40 years I've watched a few grazers, certainly not the majority but definitely a few, do exactly what I think Mr. Bundy was doing, and why.)
Then........ during one of these many conflicts, Mr Bundy didn't have the cash to pay for his yearly AUM fees. It happens, cow prices go up and down, equipment needs to be replaced or upgraded, someone in the family has unexpected medical emergency. It could have been any number of very really reasons that he couldn't pay his AUM fees, so............. because he had been such a difficult grazer to work with over the years, the BLM said, "tough, pay the AUM fees or loose the lease". He couldn't, so he used the argument that it was unconstitutional for the Feds even own land let alone charge grazers for the use if it and "then" claimed he's was going to pay the County rather the the Feds. He knows the County will return his check.
Now the problem blossoms and blows up and both the BLM and Mr. Bundy start to double down on stupid behavior and the rest is history, 25 years of stupid on top of stupid history, until it has now become a national crisis and you know that they says about "never waste a good crisis". So......... politicians and folks trying to leverage an advantage out of the crisis start to take advantage, until the issue is not longer between the BLM and Mr. Bundy's unpaid AUM fees, but about freedom, government boots on the throats of the American rancher, etc etc.
And...... thats my story, an I'm sticking to it.
DC
If we're going to guess, I'll give my "probables", which, along with a dollar and seven cents, you can buy a diet Coke at McDonalds.
I think Mr. Bundy didn't like the BLM guys telling him what he needed to do on his alotment, regarding where to graze, when to graze, where to put in water systems, where to put build corals, what dates to turn out and what dates to move to different pastures, etc. etc. which he agreed to do when he signed up for the lease. Every lease agreement, every mining lease, timber lease has stipulations that the parties agree to adhere to. I'm guessing Mr. Bundy didn't want to deal with the stipulations, for a lot of reasons, one being they cost him money. The extra dollars he was required to spend, out of his own pocket add to the cost of running his cows on the BLM, they are extra to the AUM fees, but well understood and part of why the BLM and USFS keep the AUM fees so low, to help the grazer keep up with the stipulations that the BLM required. "Probably", Mr. Bundy was in constant quarrels with the BLM administrators. Not just now and again but I'm guessing he throw a fit just about ever time they ever dealt with him.
I'm guessing he was in constant conflict with individuals within the BLM, battling over what "your making me do" and "your abusing me".
(Why do I think this was "probably" taking place? Because for 40 years I've watched a few grazers, certainly not the majority but definitely a few, do exactly what I think Mr. Bundy was doing, and why.)
Then........ during one of these many conflicts, Mr Bundy didn't have the cash to pay for his yearly AUM fees. It happens, cow prices go up and down, equipment needs to be replaced or upgraded, someone in the family has unexpected medical emergency. It could have been any number of very really reasons that he couldn't pay his AUM fees, so............. because he had been such a difficult grazer to work with over the years, the BLM said, "tough, pay the AUM fees or loose the lease". He couldn't, so he used the argument that it was unconstitutional for the Feds even own land let alone charge grazers for the use if it and "then" claimed he's was going to pay the County rather the the Feds. He knows the County will return his check.
Now the problem blossoms and blows up and both the BLM and Mr. Bundy start to double down on stupid behavior and the rest is history, 25 years of stupid on top of stupid history, until it has now become a national crisis and you know that they says about "never waste a good crisis". So......... politicians and folks trying to leverage an advantage out of the crisis start to take advantage, until the issue is not longer between the BLM and Mr. Bundy's unpaid AUM fees, but about freedom, government boots on the throats of the American rancher, etc etc.
And...... thats my story, an I'm sticking to it.
DC
>Sorry gentlemen, I disagree.
>
>The Feds may not have handled
>the process properly but I
>think Mr. Bundy belongs in
>jail, and had he obeyed
>the law from the began
>many many years ago none
>of this would have happened.
> He has been allowed
>to defy the law and
>get away with it for
>far too long. If
>you or I did what
>Mr Bundy has be doing,
>long before the round up
>and confrontation, we'd all been
>in the slammer.
>
>I don't care for Federal over
>reach and government abuse but
>in Mr. Bundy's case, I
>think Mr. Bundy is wrong,
>whether the Feds erred in
>how they attempted to bring
>him to justice or not.
>The first mistake was made
>by the Feds. over 20
>years ago when Mr. Bundy
>chose to take the law
>into his own hands and
>the Feds didn't hold him
>accountable at that time.
>
>In my opinion Mr. Bundy has
>been allowed to thumb his
>nose at the entire public
>land system, he'll get no
>sympathy from me. He's
>no freedom fighter, in my
>opinion.
>
>DC
All the revolutionary heroes we celebrate today were criminals in their day...
My biggest worry is that after I'm dead my wife will sell my hunting gear for what I told her I paid for it!
https://GearLobo.com
>
>The Feds may not have handled
>the process properly but I
>think Mr. Bundy belongs in
>jail, and had he obeyed
>the law from the began
>many many years ago none
>of this would have happened.
> He has been allowed
>to defy the law and
>get away with it for
>far too long. If
>you or I did what
>Mr Bundy has be doing,
>long before the round up
>and confrontation, we'd all been
>in the slammer.
>
>I don't care for Federal over
>reach and government abuse but
>in Mr. Bundy's case, I
>think Mr. Bundy is wrong,
>whether the Feds erred in
>how they attempted to bring
>him to justice or not.
>The first mistake was made
>by the Feds. over 20
>years ago when Mr. Bundy
>chose to take the law
>into his own hands and
>the Feds didn't hold him
>accountable at that time.
>
>In my opinion Mr. Bundy has
>been allowed to thumb his
>nose at the entire public
>land system, he'll get no
>sympathy from me. He's
>no freedom fighter, in my
>opinion.
>
>DC
All the revolutionary heroes we celebrate today were criminals in their day...
My biggest worry is that after I'm dead my wife will sell my hunting gear for what I told her I paid for it!
https://GearLobo.com
