I see that Utah is going to .05 BAC

feddoc

Long Time Member
Messages
7,224
as the legal limit for DUI. I suppose it will take more drunks off the road, but won't stop it. Years ago I sat as a traffic court judge for about 3 years. During that time it was my sorta casual observation that most folks didn't care what the BAC was, they were gonna drink/drive because they didn't think they would get caught. Everyone knows the penalties for DUI...jail, $10-15K in fines/lawyer fees, can't drive for a year or so, etc.

We had 2 cops, one a part of the DUI task force who got caught. Each said they were just out for a quick trip to the store and didn't think they would encounter any problems. One was the head cop.


I *think* Northern Arizona University had a sociology professor who came to the same conclusion (about not getting caught) during his study about why folks drink to excess, but can't find the research paper.


I know we have more than a fistfull of folks on here who are/were cops. It would be interesting to see what you have to say.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...-state-to-go-to-05/ar-BBQYksw?ocid=spartanntp


?Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. "
 
And there is a high possibility that the entire world's Olympic spectators will be here in 2030.

Utah has the stupidest alcohol laws in the world, period!

I'm not condoning drinking and driving, but it's ridiculous!
 
Meanwhile 50000 people will die this year because someone thinks their text is more important than people's lives. But we won't get stiff on that. Noooooooooo, we want to ruin people's lives with a BAC so low if you sniffed a wine glass your screwed.

The difference is one is a predominately male crime and the other is a predominately female crime. There I said it.
 
Well, evidently Utah can't sell public land, so they need to raise money somehow.

Wait until marijuana becomes legal. You haven't seen anything yet.
 
Looking for a source. While looking I did find that 1 in 4 crashes in the US are caused by texting. Plus 400,000 injuries annually. I'll keep looking.
 
Here's another quote.

"according to NHTSA, driving while texting is six times more dangerous than drunk driving.Aug 19, 2016"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-18 AT 01:55PM (MST)[p];)

My first day on the job in traffic court. I was walking in the building and saw some woman fussing with her phone while driving. I politely reminded her that in using her phone she was in violation of the law. Her reply "oh, I wasn't talking, I was just texting".

She was my first customer and argued that I could not write the ticket. I didn't. I called in someone else.




>Here's another quote.
>
> "according to NHTSA, driving while
>texting is six times more
>dangerous than drunk driving.Aug 19,
>2016"


?Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. "
 
The rest of the modern world has been on an .05 for years and so far the globe hasn't spun off Atlas.

If you want to see who dances with drinking and driving, mention lowering the limit and watch them come undone.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
In California the law is .05 for commercial vehicles, and most don't know it is not the regular .08. If you are driving a company truck be aware of this law and don't go with the boys after work for a drink or two.
 
Good job UTAH!!! I like it..is driving after consuming alcohol DUI?or is it attempted man slaughter?
If you drink dont drive!
It's really simple baisic decision making..
 
I believe it is Sweden that enacted a law a while back that if you are convicted of driving under the influence the fine will be 10% of your net income for the year. Needless to say drunk driving is not a major problem there as it is here.
Colorado has seen a big spike in DUI arrests and accidents the past year. It is not alcohol related but instead driving under the influence of marijuana.

RELH
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-18 AT 06:21PM (MST)[p]Just like violence with guns as the major tool, I'm gonna guess their lesser rates of DUI have more to do with their society than with an income based fine system.

I'd guess that the 10-15K oversll cost in the US is well above 10% of net income.




>I believe it is Sweden that
>enacted a law a while
>back that if you are
>convicted of driving under the
>influence the fine will be
>10% of your net income
>for the year. Needless to
>say drunk driving is not
>a major problem there as
>it is here.
> Colorado has seen
>a big spike in DUI
>arrests and accidents the past
>year. It is not alcohol
>related but instead driving under
>the influence of marijuana.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>RELH


?Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. "
 
Tomichi,

You ever speed? If you do you should be convicted of attempted manslaughter right. That's still the number one factor in the US for traffic fatalities. That simple according to you.


I travel all over the world and I haven't seen a country yet as hard on dui as us. Not even close.
 
Tristate, you gotta understand that here in Utah it has more to do with peoples self acclaimed moral superiority than anything. The same citizens and politicians that want heads on a spike for DUI turn a blind eye to lives being lost daily on our highways to reckless and distracted drivers. And before I get tar and feathered by my fellow Utahns, just know that I don't drink and drive, nor do I condone it in any way.
 
State rarely to almost never...did get a ticket in Utah 17 years ago..Still embarrassed.I would be good with stiffer speed consiquinces..I was passed 5 times in 10 miles today. I called in the TX Suburban full Of skiers..Gunnison PD
Had him stopped at the East edge.
Just a tourist "tax" to go with the family Christmas ski trip. TX $$$ staying in COLO.
I promise you I will never speed in Texas.
 
Utards drink????



...isn't that against your religion????


497fc2397b939f19.jpg

GOODWIN: Dems really do love Republicans -- when they're dead...
 
>Utards drink????
>
>
>
>...isn't that against your religion????
>
>
>
497fc2397b939f19.jpg

>GOODWIN: Dems really do love Republicans
>-- when they're dead...


Not if nobody sees:)
 
Went to watch my daughter play softball vs BYU last year and we had to head out of town to go enjoy any beer over 4%. The place was packed.

I agree with what others have said...the legal limit should be 0%. If you have alcohol in your system, don't drive.

Cancer doesn't discriminate...don't take your good health for granted because it can be gone in a heartbeat. Please go back and read the last line. This time really understand what it says.
 
I see that tristate is an expert in DUI also. That taxidermy school he went to sure had a lot of extra topics taught. Must have been the Harvard of taxi schools.

Rich
 
>State rarely to almost never...did get
>a ticket in Utah 17
>years ago..Still embarrassed.I would be
>good with stiffer speed consiquinces..I
>was passed 5 times in
>10 miles today. I called
>in the TX Suburban full
>Of skiers..Gunnison PD
>Had him stopped at the East
>edge.
>Just a tourist "tax" to go
>with the family Christmas ski
>trip. TX $$$ staying in
>COLO.
>I promise you I will never
>speed in Texas.

I was in Texas about 15 years ago for the spring Turkey hunt. We where staying on a ranch that did not have good Turkey populations so the ranch owner had arranged for two of his friends to take me and another guy to different ranch about two hours to the north. Well the guy that was supposed to take me he was not from Texas i think he was from Georgia. He went across the boarder and party all night he pulled back into the ranch at 3AM and so drunk he could not get out of the passenger seat. We pulled out at 330 so I had to drive, he told me to just keep up with the guy driving the truck in front of us.
We had been driving for about a half hour and averaging over 90 when up in front of us head lights came around a turn, the guy I was following went around the turn right after I saw the head lights. I looked down at the speedometer and it was bottomed out at 95 and I had a really bad feeling.
Yes it was a cop he flipped around and turned on the red and blues the guy I was with was passed out cold. I pulled over I was scared. We are two guys that are not from Texas one passed out cold, more guns in the truck than two guys should have, we are only a few miles from the boarder and i was probably going around 100. The officer walked up and asked me for my license and at the same time as i produce my license he notices the guns in the back seat and i will say he was one cool cat. He asked me to keep my hands on the steering wheel and then he looks at my license and says with a surprised statement "Utah what are you doing hear".
I decided to just lay it out I said " yes I am from Utah, this guy passed out next to me I do not even really know i think he is from Georgia he was supposed to guide me Turkey hunting this morning but he went across the boarder and came back the way he is he told me just keep up with the truck in front of us and you will not get lost. I do have more guns in the back seat than two men should have, especially if one is passed out drunk".
The officer gave back my license and said "be safe hunting turkeys".
I did kill a Turkey that morning.
 
Rich,

Never had a dui myself but you don't have to be an expert to see first that it's about the money and second they aren't worried one bit about our safety.


If any little bit of alcohol according to some here is dui then they should have made the legal limit 0. But they didn't. They made it .10. Now they have a grey area that Joe six-pack can't measure himself but still tries to satisfy himself and stay legal. Guess what? He can't. No one can tell their BAC just by how they feel. So counties rack up the money. Pretty soon people are over cautious and the county isn't making as much money. Joe Six-pack has adapted to the plan and is staying legal. Screw him we'll make it .08. revenue goes back up breafly. Now people have learned how to stay below .08 and convictions and revenue go down. At the same time lawyers have educated the public not to blow in a breathilizer. First step we'll make it mandatory that cops get to draw blood off you by force. That's right we shred the Constitution and crap on everyone's rights by creating road checkpoints with a bunch of civil servants forcing needles into citizen's arms! I mean what's more important liberty or making sure you you are a perfectly controlled robot? Revenue still goes down. Screw the little robots we drop the BAC to .05. We need our money.

Meanwhile the most dangerous thing to ever hit our roads is plaguing America but let's not do anything about it.

Everything I just told you is the truth RICH. I don't have to be an expert to remember.
 
>In California the law is .05
>for commercial vehicles, and most
>don't know it is not
>the regular .08. If you
>are driving a company truck
>be aware of this law
>and don't go with the
>boys after work for a
>drink or two.

That .05 for commercial has been that way for years nationwide. It's falls into a weird civil offense as opposed to criminal though. Any alcohol on board while operating CDL also gets you into trouble under federal guidelines on a civil level.


4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-18 AT 05:30AM (MST)[p]Tri you are absolutely correct in that money is a big part of it as it is with everything from sports, to guided private land hunts, to politics and beyond any space I have to type.

I'll even throw in some local laws here that are exactly that Mind you I have to bite my tongue somewhat in what I point out but make no mistake, there is a money element. First you have a public safety group assigned to monitor bars, restaurants, and any place where alcohol is consumed or sold. This is in no way specific to Utah. All states have it in one form or another. The idea is to weed out the bad apples and revoke the licensing to habitual offenders to include selling to underage, selling bootlegged (untaxed liquor, beer, and wine), selling to obviously intox patrons, selling without a license.. you get the idea. Now here is where Tri is spot on. All of this is done in the name of public safety and most with good cause and in good faith. Now let's say you get the establishment that blatantly ignores the regulations time and time again. The establishment did it for the money. The establishment will then get notice of a license suspension and or revocation. Here is where public safety and money pull a 180 to each other. The suspension is usually an and or proposition. The license suspension can be waived in leu of a hefty financial penalty. I could go on and on with various example but yes, it is sadly more about the money many times than it is about public interest.

Liquor stores. I don't think the state has any business whatsoever in being the gatekeeper to something that should be private enterprise. The state removing competition for their monopoly on state run liquor stores goes against the very grain of capitalism. There is absolutely nothing to support the idea that the stare can do this more responsibly than the private sector. It is a taxation and money making scheme pulled under the guise of public safety.

Now having said this; this is also where you are wrong Tri. It's not ALWAYS about the money and it is most certainly not ALL about the money. One of the largest taxes on society is alcohol. First like gambling, it is largely a tax upon the poor, those who can least afford it spend a significant portion of their income on it. It is then a massive tax on society in terms of property damage, loss of life, illness both acute and chronic, failed marriages, child abuse, and a myriad of other crime. Ask any cop who has worked a beat what the percentage averages to be for calls which are deemed alcohol related. A lot. The most devestatrng recurring ones that I see are people too short sighted and or selfish to refrain from driving under the influence. The numbers of injured and killed from it are absolutely staggering. The political lobby machines behind the push for strict relentless pursuit targeting the DUI demographic are motivated by very real, heartfelt, human tragedy so easily avoided. One of the main local lobbyists for MADD lost an infant grandchild years ago on Christmas Eve to a drunk driver. I can assure you that he and thousands like him are indeed, not motivated by the money.

It is hard to put a line on the magic number of when someone is ?safe enough? to drive. This is largely because each person is different in the physiological response to alcohol as well as individual tolerance. I can tell you where the line is drawn for the operator of a Boeing 747. It's zero. Why? Because the argument can, will, and has been made that impairment begins from the start. It doesn't magically kick in suddenly at an .08 or pick your number. I would suspect that heart surgeons are also set at the nominal scale of zero.


Here, DUI deaths per million road miles traveled are some of the very lowest in the nation and aggressive enforcement/prosecution are the commonality. I actually have a lot of hope that things are changing. One of the best tech advancements to take place in the last several years are services like Uber and Lyft. I have personally seen way to many sad, sad tragedies resulting in death and life long disability over this to with a straight face, discount all the efforts and strong feelings as being all about the money.

The real bottom line is that unless major changes occur with NHTSA standards established for DUI detection and apprehension, nothing is going to significantly change for many reasons which could fill several pages.

Now the real reason not to flirt with driving with alcohol are far greater than any monetary criminal fine. If you are driving down the road doing absolutely nothing wrong, and you run a red light that any sober person could have missed, or hit a kid jay walking in dark clothes or any catastrophic accident occurs which has little to no bearing on the fact you are say a .035.....you will be drawn out in civil court hearings for several years as criminal charges aside, I can assure you that a wrongful death suit will be filed and the king pin will be affixed to the fact that you had alcohol in your system. Just the way it always works.

Lastly without naming anyone to bring up old sorrows, I can think of more than one member here who left life too early as the result of a DUI.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-18 AT 05:57AM (MST)[p]Just yesterday afternoon on my way to SLC I followed a guy who kept looking down at his lap...it was pretty obvious he was using his phone.


I just don't get it...this lack of personal responsibility...texting, drowsy, drinking. I think the end result is gonna be the same.


I teach CCW. How many states have a BAC for carrying a weapon? Beats me. I do know that in NV it is .1
Not .01; .1

Dumb.


Most people just dont give a darn because they are 'not the one who is gonna get caught'.


?Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. "
 
1911,

I think you are missing my point. I agree that impairment starts at the first sip. SO WHY MAKE A LEGAL DRINKING LIMIT OF ANYTHING? Just make the legal limit 0.00 and end the bullshine of this is about public safety. Because they want the money.

Meanwhile there is a much greater problem on our highways that is killing real people. Killing real kids at a lot faster rate than drunk driving AND NOBODY IS DEALING WITH IT. You want to tell me why?

I've had people close to me injured and killed by drunk drivers over 40+ years of living. I've had more friends injured and killed by cell phone drivers AND THAT'S ONLY BEEN A PROBLEM FOR A DECADE.
 
I haven't driven under the influence since the 70's, but I have noticed a marked improvement in my golf game after the first beer. Go figure.
 
I know this doesn't make it right and I'm not trying to justify drinking and driving but a couple issue I see here. First, how about the poor sucker that has one beer with his dinner at Chili?s and winds up in financial ruin if a distracted driver ran a light or rear ended him? The guy who had the beer is probably a lot more attentive than he would be otherwise. Honestly I'd rather share the road with him than a soccer mom in her mini van that has her thumb or her ear glued to the IPhone screen. Look around while stopped at any intersection and 3/4 of the people are distracted by their phone, second, the .05 is going to make criminals out of good people while the real drunks won't be affected in the least because they drive around half sauced anyway. When I read about DUI fatalities, it seems it's usually mentioned the driver was 2-3 times the legal limit. That guy doesn't care anyway. So is the .05 guy really the problem? I'm just saying I think our lawmakers time would be better spent trying to put more bite into existing laws than creating new ones.
 
My wife, myself and her family were in Vegas a couple of years ago and my brother in law and I were playing 21 and drinking heavily. My brother in law says to me maybe we should stop drinking as we have a 6am flight. ( keep in mind my brother in law is a cop in Phoenix) The dealer says so you have a flight in the am. My brother in law says no we are the pilots for the Southwest flight 555. He gave us a god awful stare and left the table. We didn't know what was going on but the Main guy behind he table came over and told us we were cut off. Well that one back fired on us and they were thinking about calling the police. I still don't think they believed us.

So we packed up and had to go to another casino. LOL

We did take a cab
 
Distracted/impaired driving has many faces:
Alcohol
Marijuana
Prescription drugs
Cell Phone
Speed
Sightseeing
Age
Kids
Stupid
Etc.

People tend to climb their soapboxes and blame the one they don't do.
 
Thanks for the reply Tristate.

One beer won't get you to an .05 folks. I have dosed many drinkers for DUI training for officers and it takes quite a bit of alcohol to get a normal person to.08 and above in 2 hours. Most folks say they start feeling impairment around .04 and think they are way over the legal limit. Anything that distracts from driving is a bad thing.

Rich
 
Oh I got your point and the reason why is multipronged. It's not one single reason. The same goes for my point which is to say it's all about the money is just as much malarkey as saying it's nothing to do with money. To say that every aspect of the laws and their respective apprehension and components are singularly about the money and not the bodies is patently false hyperbole.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
>Thanks for the reply Tristate.
>
>One beer won't get you to
>an .05 folks. I have
>dosed many drinkers for DUI
>training for officers and it
>takes quite a bit of
>alcohol to get a normal
>person to.08 and above in
>2 hours. Most folks say
>they start feeling impairment around
>.04 and think they are
>way over the legal limit.
>Anything that distracts from driving
>is a bad thing.
>
>Rich

All true. People are several more times likely to say they don't feel safe driving at a .04 on the way up. The same people will say they feel safe driving at a .10 on the way down. Alcohol has a funny effect on judgement and perception.


4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
>My wife, myself and her family
>were in Vegas a couple
>of years ago and my
>brother in law and I
>were playing 21 and drinking
>heavily. My brother in law
>says to me maybe we
>should stop drinking as we
>have a 6am flight. (
>keep in mind my brother
>in law is a cop
>in Phoenix) The dealer says
>so you have a flight
>in the am. My brother
>in law says no we
>are the pilots for the
>Southwest flight 555. He gave
>us a god awful stare
>and left the table. We
>didn't know what was going
>on but the Main guy
>behind he table came over
>and told us we were
>cut off. Well that one
>back fired on us and
>they were thinking about calling
>the police. I still don't
>think they believed us.
>
>So we packed up and had
>to go to another casino.
>LOL
>
>We did take a cab


That is classic.

4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
>Utards drink????
>
>
>
>...isn't that against your religion????
>
>
>
497fc2397b939f19.jpg

>GOODWIN: Dems really do love Republicans
>-- when they're dead...


Homer we've been over this. Several times in Hawaii, and several more in Pumkin Center.

4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
I watched a guy that's bigger than me have three beers. Seemed completely fine to me when he got in his vehicle. Didn't have a wreck just got pulled over. Its cost him close to twenty grand. They make him go to AA meetings as part of his penalty. He isn't an alcoholic. He no longer has a job. He has to breath in a little machine to start his truck. I am thankful he doesn't have kids because it would have effected them to. If I thought the guy was a danger I would have given him a lift home. He was half a mile from the house.

I know another guy that got a DUI. I have no frame of reference for how drunk he was when he was pulled over or how many beers he had. I know he didn't cause a wreck. Guess what his ex wife used against him in a custody dispute in their divorce.

That's one of my points. I get a speeding ticket, WHICH IS WRONG, and I personally take a lick and pay for it. I get a DUI and my family can be ripped apart and it can permanently screw some kids up THAT YOUR GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH NOW.

Meanwhile soccermom runs over three kids while banging on her googler and she'll go home that night and text Marge, "OMG U never would believe what happened to my car today!".


1911,

I believe you that there are more angles to this than money. So tell me what they are. I want to see some logic in this. Why is there a BAC limit at all? I've looked there isn't one single lobby group that is pro alcohol and haul ass.
 

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