Old Age Doesn't Always Matter

slamdunk · Jan 21, 2019

I borrowed this picture from an RMEF social media page.

6 consecutive years of pictures and he's probably 3 years old on the first one as a young 5 point raghorn. This bull is all of 9 years old.

Goes to show that just because a bull survives to reach his prime, it doesn't guarantee he'll ever be a "trophy bull" by definition.

goofyelk · Jan 21, 2019

Good post!
Just gos to show,
Some bull just never get really big.....genetics.

hwttp://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/User_files/4aec49a65c565954.jpg

Mbogo · Jan 21, 2019

I don't think you are being given accurate information.
I think the 2016 and 2017 picture are the same bull in the same year. The racks are not similar, they are identical.

Also, I think the 2013 picture is the same year as the 2014 picture, just later in the growing season. You can see how his right main beam finally barely forked compared to the bulge at his tip in the 2014 pic.

That being said, I agree with your message. I don't think every bull can even reach 350 in full maturity in a great feed year, let alone 380 or 400. Those are special genetics with the age, general health quality and feed/minerals all coming together.

elkantlers · Jan 21, 2019

2016 & 2017 same bull, same year. 2018 different bull all together.

elkassassin · Jan 21, 2019

Yup!

Old Age Don't always Matter!

What I'm about to Post Pertains to an Old Bruiser Buck in the Book Cliffs this year!

When the Sire was a Spike!

And His Dad was a Spike!

And when His Dads Dad was a Spike!

And after several Generations of PISS POOR Genetics & Breeding!

You end up with this!

The Oldest Buck We could find in the Book Cliffs!

Granted,The Old Bruiser had a Body on His PISS POOR Headgear!

If This Buck had ever went up against another Decent Buck His Headgear would be Sheared off within seconds!

The Only thing that keeps this Bucks Headgear Safe is other Bucks are afraid of the Body Size on this old Bruiser!

This Ole Boy Lays His ears Back & other Book Cliff PISSCUTTERS start Running!

SAD!!!

I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

Elkslayer2015 · Jan 22, 2019

LAST EDITED ON Jan-22-19 AT 09:58AM (MST)[p]yup I agree with what you said Mbogo...

nontypical · Jan 23, 2019

Age only matters if the critter can reach it's true genetic potential. I'm quite sure less than 1% of bulls will ever reach 400" and bucks 200". Most will never live that long anyway...

elkassassin · Jan 23, 2019

>Age only matters if the critter
>can reach it's true genetic
>potential. I'm quite sure less
>than 1% of bulls will
>ever reach 400" and bucks
>200". Most will never live
>that long anyway...

But nontyp!

The Buck I Posted Lived Long Enough!

I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

Gator · Jan 24, 2019

Down on the Blues the GW told me that more Bulls die of old age then are taken due to them not scoring inches enough so they AREN'T big enough for a tagholder to shoot.
Now I don't know if that true but it does make sense that a bull in a trophy area that doesn't score 350 could end up living a his life until a lion or old age takes him.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]

nontypical · Jan 25, 2019

He may have lived TOO long! He might just be a badass!!

I would bet the majority of bulls never get bigger than 330-340 and most bucks never bust 170 in their lives.

slamdunk · Jan 26, 2019

>I would bet the majority of
>bulls never get bigger than
>330-340 and most bucks never
>bust 170 in their lives.
>

Bingo, we have a winner!!

Gator · Jan 28, 2019

Yes that why he said they died of old age.
THEY DON'T GET BIG ENOUGH FOR TAGHOLDER TO SHOOT.
they need a few more bull tags in that 300 class range.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]

NPHunter · Jan 29, 2019

I would like to see that same bull in 2020 or later, he is way bigger in 2018 than he was in 2017 and hes not even finished out on the tops. Some bulls i agree don't get huge but a lot of really big bulls live to be older than 7 or 8 years old. I'm watching a few bulls now that are in a similar class to this bull around 2016 now, they started out as rag 5's and 6's and now 4 years later they are turning into some dandy bulls. I also have one bull that is well over 350" on an OTC unit that is a old stud, typically when bulls start to get really old you see things like devils tines and extras start to develop.

I have one bull that i got pictures of in 2013 that was probably in the low 300's then, he is now about the same sized frame bull but super heavy with 20+ fronts and 3" devils tines on each antler and is probably 330" with poor genetics. My dad killed a bull a few years back that was a main frame 5 that went 356" as an 8x9 due to all the drop tines and kickers everywhere, he also had 22" fronts, we guessed him around 12-14 based off the three sets of sheds a friend of the family had off of him.

I guess my point is age defiantly matters as much as anything else matters, you wont see many 8 year old 400" bulls, elk are deceiving because there bodies grow as the get older too so pictures can be hard to judge. I think that in all but a select few units that bull above would be a heck of a trophy well over 300", i would put him around 330" and in 4 more years when he is truly at his prime he will be over 350" no doubt. At 9yrs old he is just now reaching the bottom end of his prime for best antler growth.

Gator · Feb 1, 2019

You know any High Dollar/ tons of points tag holder in SJ/Elk ridge area that would shoot him on their first day or first week.
Because I haven't met any down there that would.
I guess that is why the local GW told us that.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]

bugleb · Feb 17, 2019

For a second I though you meant old age in hunters, not game. I will be 70 years old for this year's hunt, and I am starting to worry a lot about how much old age is going to matter. Last year at age 69, my hips, and sometimes my knees started bothering me at the end of the day on some of our 12-15 mile days in the Wyo. Region G high country.

As far as the bull goes, just give him another year or two and he will be a monster.

Gator · Feb 18, 2019

That bull is 9yrs old in the last picture, Don't think another 3 years will not help him much even he able to make it another 3 years IMO

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]

slamdunk · Feb 18, 2019

>That bull is 9yrs old in
>the last picture, Don't think
>another 3 years will not
>help him much even he
>able to make it another
>3 years IMO
>
Nope, he is what he is, even if it's got a year discrepancy as someone above speculated.

Elkslayer2015 · Mar 18, 2019

LAST EDITED ON Mar-18-19 AT 04:04PM (MST)[p]HAHAHA just when you think you have seen it all then this comes up my buddy got his age back on his 300 inch bull he got out in the Books last season and they are saying it was a 12 year old bull

Well I call BS the IVORY"S on this bull where not even close of being grounded down and this bull had all his teeth this bull was maybe a 5 year old bull small body small hooves it wasn't really that hard to see he was a young bull

AGE DOES MATTER when the tooth survey is done correctly now this screw up just helped the age objective on this unit and I'm wondering how many more units they have done this on to make there age objective look good on paper...

elkassassin · Mar 18, 2019

>LAST EDITED ON Mar-18-19
>AT 04:04?PM (MST)
>
>HAHAHA just when you think you
>have seen it all then
>this comes up my buddy
>got his age back on
>his 300 inch bull he
>got out in the Books
>last season and they are
>saying it was a 12
>year old bull
>
>Well I call BS the IVORY"S
>on this bull where not
>even close of being grounded
>down and this bull had
>all his teeth this bull
>was maybe a 5 year
>old bull small body small
>hooves it wasn't really that
>hard to see he was
>a young bull
>
>AGE DOES MATTER when the tooth
>survey is done correctly now
>this screw up just helped
>the age objective on this
>unit and I'm wondering how
>many more units they have
>done this on to make
>there age objective look good
>on paper...
>
>

Yup!

One More UN-Truthful/UN-Honest Report within the System!

I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

slamdunk · Mar 18, 2019

>LAST EDITED ON Mar-18-19
>AT 04:04?PM (MST)
>
>HAHAHA just when you think you
>have seen it all then
>this comes up my buddy
>got his age back on
>his 300 inch bull he
>got out in the Books
>last season and they are
>saying it was a 12
>year old bull
>
>Well I call BS the IVORY"S
>on this bull where not
>even close of being grounded
>down and this bull had
>all his teeth this bull
>was maybe a 5 year
>old bull small body small
>hooves it wasn't really that
>hard to see he was
>a young bull
>
>AGE DOES MATTER when the tooth
>survey is done correctly now
>this screw up just helped
>the age objective on this
>unit and I'm wondering how
>many more units they have
>done this on to make
>there age objective look good
>on paper...
>

I highly doubt there is a 12 year old bull on any unit, let alone the book cliffs.
Deseret CWMU, I would believe it, but not an open unit surviving on completely natural habitat and availability of resources.

Tooth data IS completely accurate, I'm sure your buddy's was undoubtedly a mistake made by a rookie biologists.

Antler size most certainly does NOT dictate age, period.

Elkslayer2015 · Mar 19, 2019

LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-19 AT 08:32AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-19 AT 08:30?AM (MST)

slamdunk I know Antler size does not dictate age I didn't say that I'm saying that age does matter when its done correctly if it's not done correctly then it screws with are age objective and that's how we manage all are LE units for bulls and bull to cow ratio

Just Curios how do you know he's a 9 year old bull in 2018 pic

STOMPER · Apr 4, 2019

Slamdunk? Really? Are you really lecturing people on how to judge an elk???

NO! JUST NO!!!

Are you aware i have never killed a 400? bull???

Are you aware that you made me pass a typical inline 7x7 that scored 401??!?!!!!!!!!!!

SMH!!!!

Were not friends! And you have no rights to an elk judging card or your man card! Both have been forfeited!