are you friendly?

T

tageater

Guest
LAST EDITED ON Jun-12-11 AT 02:37AM (MST)[p]

I won't judge you. Its a tough call.

When I tie a NEW fly, I always tie 10-12 of each pattern...usually cause I'm not counting as I go, and just throw them into an empty hook case (before a test pattern makes it into my fly box, that's where I keep 'em)

My thing is, on a heavily fished river I occasionally run into some novices.

At first glance it can be tough to pick them out...they ALL look like they dropped out of an LL Bean catalog. But once I see a guy cast, its easy to tell.

Anyway once in awhile I tie a drop dead ringer...and on a heavily fished river, that can be what it takes to catch 10 fish instead of 2.

The other day, While landing another fish and seeing said LLBean boy watching in wonderment, and seeing utter futilely after casting and just stirring up water, I was feeling a bit guilty(as I could tell he had NO idea what he was doing) and walked over to him and asked what he was using...He showed me a couple of flies I've NEVER seen...musta brought them with him from Missouri...

We talked for a bit. Just chit chat, about life, tornadoes, water levels, drowning kids, and girls never knowing when to shut up!

That last topic sealed it... I said let me set your rig up(which he was more than happy about.) Showed him a little about reading the water(where he wanted the fly to end up) and what a strike REALLY looks like on an indicator (as while showing him,I accidentally caught one).

After the catch, I relenquished myself (with many thanks from him) to the lower end of the pool, to fish for the next hour.

After seeing him catch 2 fish, and then hooking into the trash on the bottom, (and it being close to my having to leave). I made my way back up to where he was. I walked up, and threw him the 4 flies I had left, and told him I'd see him next time.

Now, giving up a secret fly can be deadly- had he been a local...would he have just been jealous I was catching fish and maybe come to me...Would i have given him a look at, or even one to try? Depending on how I'm received, or acknowleged when I show up. That's a big factor! Just a nod is huge!

This has happened on 2 of my last 4 trips to the river.


My question is;

How friendly are you with your flies?






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I'm like you, it depends on the guy I'm dealing with. Like most people, I fish the destination rivers, Ham's Fork, Beaverhead, Green, etc....We've fished them enough that we have a pretty good idea on what to use and how, but sometimes I will still talk to guys that are tearing it up and see what they are using and share some info.

Some guys are just douches about it, some like to chat and show off what they have. Sometimes I'm surprised with what they are catching fish with.

What I can't stand are the guys that won't give you the time of day. Like they're too good to talk to you, or they just lie about the bug they are using. These guys can be pretty easy to spot and for the most part I just don't approach them. But if someone is struggling and they ask for help, or I see they need it, I will make my way over and give them some pointers. Most of the time it's not the bug that they need it's the knowledge of how to set up a nymph rig, and the depth they need to be at.

I had to learn most everything I've learned on my own and from several books that I bought. So I feel for the guys out there having a hard time. I do chuckle though, when I see them with a $400 rod, $350 waders, $150 boots, etc.....just rookies trying to learn how to fish, I started out with a $60 combo from walmart, some cheap neoprene waders, a $12 vest and maybe 6 flies. Some of these guys are wearing close to $1000 worth of gear and can't catch a damn thing! Sometimes I wish that flyfishing wasn't so damn cool so that less people would be out doing it.
 
I don't mind that there are so many rookies out there.

They can fish a hole for half an hour. Never catch a thing, get impatient, and leave so that I can move up and catch fish that haven't been harrased.

Right now is a tough time of year, with runoff making most destinations unfishable. The few rivers that ARE open, are crowded. It'll thin out as summer gets here.

I have noticed a few of the snotty too good to talk to you guys are actually guides. Usually with clients, and I can understand that they are working, but still a simple good morning, or howdy...or older guys that look at me, not dressed like LL Bean(more like someone out of Deliverance), and they assume I'm gonna thrash the water up. They ignore me as I walk in, but when they see I do fish well, they can open up a bit.

Going out tomorrow, with another Rookie, so I better get to tying some flies.



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Hey tag, why don't you send me up a couple dozen of your favorite flies and I'll go give 'em a try!!??

From the sounds of it, you've got some killer patterns. I remember seeing some pics you posted awhile back of some brownies from the Weber, big streamer flies hanging in their lips. I was up that canyon last sunday and that river is raging!!

I have a neighbor who is also a buddy of mine decide to get into flyfishing a couple years ago. Came over, chatted abit, I told him I'd start slow, get an inexpensive setup and see if he even likes it. Well, next thing I know he's got a $600 Sage, Sims guide waders, this that and the other, well over a grand in gear, can't cast to save his ass, goes up on the Logan and gets skunked all summer!!!! Complains to me that flyfishing is for the birds, I give him some more advice, he goes down to the green and gets skunked again!! Long story short, he doesn't fish much. I told him if he can't catch fish on the Logan, he should probably pick a different hobby.
 
I could send you a few flies, for a few of yours. fire me a PM with your addy.

I haven't fished the Weber in almost 3 months.(I miss that river!) I've had to fish the Mid-Provo(I hate it!) since then, but my need to fish is stronger than my hatred of the yuppie-types that crawl down from ParkCity.

As for your friend,if he wants to sell his Sage! Or tell him he needs to spend another dime for casting lessons, or do what I did...go out with some decent fishermen, and spend 80% of the day just watching what they are doing.

That being said, I still get skunked- I fished 5 hours last Wed.(With some great patterns)...not a damn fish! But while dinkin around I came up with the idea for 2 new flies, that I used Fri. And ultimately had a great day catching some really nice fish on one of them.(And giving the last few away to the struggling newbie).









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Nice thread Tag! Dad bought me my first flyrod for an 8th grade graduation present. Not sure why the flyrod as he was strictly a worm flinger but that's when i got started. I used that rod off and on until my Grandpa passed on and left me his old cane rod and some gear. I put that old gear to use until a particular feisty 4 pound brown scared me that i'd bust up that precious rod so i put it up. Now, i have close to 2 dozen fly rods, some good ones, and some that are just collectors or investments. That said, i'm now 57, just a mediocre fly fisherman, and still learning what i should have already learned every time that i'm able to get out.

Talk about sharing flies.I've been lucky to have 2 really great fly fishing, among other things, mentors and was able to spend much quality time on the water with these guys. Maybe the only thing that they were more generous with than their knowledge of the bugs, the hatches, the water, and the right drift, approach, and presentation, was in sharing with me what end product came off their benches. I tried many times to hang with those two guys while tieing but my examples were just not up to snuff in comparison to the exquisite examples these guys tied up. Probably, my being pretty bad color blind didn't help and having ten thumbs not much either. In any event, i tie up some but thankfully, i seen and fished way better.

Talk about friendly! Because of my two very generous mentors, both passed on now, and the vast amounts of time that i've spent on the water both with those two guys and thankfully, lots of other what i call quality people, i'm likely to give somebody whatever they need in the way of gear if only they show the interest. I have way too much gear, way to much. I don't, can't, fish the way i used to. If someone comes along that obviously needs help or a upgrade in equipment that they might not afford, a kid, i been known to fix him up and no compensation other than a little gratitude required. I've been blessed, i try to pass that on.

Joey
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-13-11 AT 01:10AM (MST)[p]Thats exactly the kinda "Nice" I'm talking about, Sage!

We have all run into those guys that are just plain rude, and it embarrasses me that they are what others judge flyfishermen as.
Especially when its a newcomer to the sport, or someone from out of state...I want them to realize NOT all flyfishermen are like that, and try to make theirs a positive experience.

We've also been lucky enough to know those that are seemingly 40 levels above us...teaching us by just letting us hang with them for a few hours a week...and soon enough we'll be those guys- its our duty to pass it on...or at least our duty to make someone wanna learn more about the sport.

This thread started as a fishing one, but could translate into hunting real easy! And i didn't start it as a way to toot my own horn. Only a reminder that we are all outdoorsmen and should be as nice as we can!

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Today was one of the best days I've had on the Mid-provo...not in numbers of fish caught, but in experiences.

It started as I was walking down stream to one of two holes I was gonna fish...seeing a young gal and guy rigging up in the prime hole, I knew I'd just keep walking down to the second hole...no big deal.

As I got to them, I said good morning, and asked if they knew if anyone was bellow them...she said"No" (he didn't say a word to me all day). I wished them good luck and went on down to the next hole.

20 minutes later, I get the sense someone's looking at my sexy ass as I'm casting, I turn around and here comes the girl. Most appologetically, she asks if I have another strike indicator that she could buy. She only had 1 and was trying to teach him how to nymph.... "No, I don't have one you can buy, I have one I'll give you, though." I open my pack...find a nice pink one, and she thanks me.
She then asks if "they" could join me in fishing the hole...
Honestly my eyes did roll a little, but said "sure", just as he comes walking down the trail. Long story short I caught a couple fish in front of them, she caught 1, and he was unteachable.but I did motion for him to move down to where I had just landed a fish, as I was taking a Rum Break. He moved down but did NO damage to the trout population.

Eventually they left and no sooner another guy comes down the trail and is setting up camp near my pack and coat, so I walk over to greet him(and make sure my rum doesn't walk off). We chat for a few, introduce ourselves, talk flies...and as I show him what I'm using he says" I've met you before, you gave me some blood midges about a month ago. Those worked great for about a week, before I lost the last one"

-we fished- catching few fish....as the next 2 guys walk down the trail, now I'm dying...but Dan says, that's Mike, he's a great guy and guide,let's pick his brain and fly box! "Ok" but I said I'd trade him a couple of my cased caddis' for 1 of his better working flies(as a model for me to tie, not to use.)Deal done.

Then I had to leave to get home to watch a hockey game.
My point being, because I said hello a month ago, and gave a couple of flies away then, I got a guides go to fly. What will come from the flies/indicator I gave away today? I'm not expecting anything, but I wasn't expecting anything a month ago.

A little brown from today with my cased caddis:
http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos/7301img-20110613-00191.jpg


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Great thread! I'm like alot of you as far as helping out people that are struggling. For the last couple of months, it seems the "snobs" have been out in full force on the San Juan, but every once in awhile, you run into a "clueless" person that needs a little help.

I'm close personal friends with several guides and a shop owner or two there. A couple years ago, I was invited to help the SJ Guide Assn stock fish provided by NMGF since I have a drift boat. I even got a thank you from the G&F Commission Chairman as I was the only "citizen" there helping out. The "friendly" goes both ways!

The fish really get hammered hard on the Juan and go-to flies can be a very close guarded secret, especially with the guides. I can't blame them since that's what puts food on the table. I've been fortunate to swap a few of my newest creations for a few of theirs, a well as some of the other regulars.

My biggest gripe are the ones that think they're your best friend but won't do any experimenting for themselves. Had a "friend" call me the other night asking for detailed instructions on one of my flies. He got a few from me last year, so there's no reason he couldn't copy it? Laziness, pure and simple....something for nothing, I guess. I hope I didn't steer him too wrong with the instructions. ;) Come to think of it, I don't recall ever seeing a bug he came up with on his own. I do like the fact he's a "gear queer" an we have access to some good stuff he gets tired of. I met the guy by buying a reel off he that he had posted on CL. Jeff's still kicking himself for selling me that brand new, never used Lamson Lightspeed #2 with a Rio Grand line for 140 bucks haha!

Technique/presentation is WAY more important that a particular pattern, IMO. I'll gladly chat for a few minutes and help an appreciative person get set up correctly, maybe even give a few flies away.

I went on Sunday with a close friend and a guide buddy of mine to float the high water (5000 CFS)on the Juan. First time to do that and we hammered fish all day long! We took turns rowing and fishing; had at least 40 to the net and that many more LDRs. My buddy Jim caught a really fat 19" bow, then I hooked up. I asked Chip to hold Jim's in the net so we could get a pic of a double. Wouldn't you know, Jim got another one to make it a triple! All three were about the same size...nothng really huge but dang nice fish! A few minutes later, I tagged this brownie. Not really big, but boy did it fight good in the current!

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Nice post philthy.

I will say I think Most of us are all capable of being nice, I guess I just wish is was more evident on a daily basis.

And not so much with giving gear away, but just with the simple hello's and a thumbs up once in awhile when youy see someone land a nice fish.

Common courtesies...Not charging in to fish too close to someone with out asking, and if someone asks to fish near you, say "sure". That kinda stuff goes a long way in making a day on a busy river more enjoyable. There is plenty of water out there!

The above and beyond, stuff, ie: giving a fly or 3 away, instruction, is more( IMO) about being a good ambassidor to keeping the sport going.

Thanks for your posts guys and have a great day out there!
Tight lines all day long.

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Tageater,

Reminds me of probably THE most awesome thing I witnessed last summer on the San Juan, just below the dam in the old "catch and release" area. Maybe 25-30 people fishing and it was a little crowded. Around 10 AM, a guide walked out with a husband, wife, and a little boy who was all of 3 feet tall but outfitted in waders. They weren't able to get in where we were because of his size, so they set up and fished a riffle dumping into Cable Hole. After a little bit, the little boy started whoopin and hollerin with his rod doubled over. About 5 minutes later, the fish got off about 10 feet away from the net and he started crying. While all this was happening, EVERYONE had stopped fishing to watch. His tears went away when we all gave him a standing ovation. THAT, my friends is what it's all about!

It's moments like that I cherish the most and don't really care about keeping count. Yea, I don't like driving 3 hours to get skunked and thankfully that rarely happens anymore. Even for me, Sunday was exceptional.

We're headed back up next week for 4 days of fishing with old friends from AZ and a guy I haven't met yet from GA. There will probably be a bunch of folks from our local forum (sanjuanriverforum.com) joining us as well. I'm looking forward to great chow and cold beer to soothe my hopefully sore arms. I've got some hair mouse patterns I came up with and will be tying some 5" or 6" long streamers for some "hunting" right before dark. There's some really BIG NASTY browns down around Death Row and I'm hoping to hang into one of 'em!

Phil
 
Good stories Tag and Phil - you are both great ambassadors for the sport. Really - the snotty guides and LLBeaners drive me nuts. I don't know what I look like when I get out there. I can assure you though that I can make that old Eagle Claw Trailmaster put a fly just about right where I want it most of the time. It has been a while since I have fished the big waters for trout - lots of bass and sunfish down here in Texas. The last few times I have fished the Green we floated it and used Rapalas exclusively. Can't wait to get back up there though and try it out again - so if you see me and I look a little rusty, don't hesitate to help me out! I will glady reciprocate what I can.



UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
Roy- half of the reason I act the way I do on a river, interact with folks the way I do, is because I know I will be judged based on your actions. And if I can be half as nice as you, I'll be ok!

And there had better be a notification when you get back this way to fish the Green- I'd like to come out and joing you and the fam(unless you decide fishing is for the guys)!



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Interesting thread. I bought a combo fly fishing set up from Cabelas once, in their "bargain cave". I tried it but never could get the hang of it. I spend enough time looking like an idiot, without doing it in front of everybody on the river. I gave it to my nephew.

This morning there was a good minus tide so I went razor clam digging. It was the weekend and people were out in hoards. The clamming was so good I had a limit well before low tide. I haven't seen it this good ever.

This thread got me to thinking. About 90% of the clammers out there are experienced and just go about their business. The big deal is to dig a limit while the tide is out.(time constraint). It's all about clams in the freezer, or "meat hunting" if you will. Nothing real sporting about it. (but it is fun)

About 10% of the people are standing around like a deer caught in the headlights. Very seldom do I ever see them dig a clam. I have never seen anybody offer to help these people (myself included). Nobody ever asks for help either. It's like some kind of unwritten rule I think. It's like, if you show a stranger, that's less clams for yourself. I get the feeling I would be looked down upon for sharing "the secret" of razor clam digging with a stranger. Some of them I'm sure don't want to work that hard, but most just don't quite get the technique.

When it comes to food for the pot, greed rears it's ugly head.

Now I feel guilty.

Eel
 
There's no rule that you can't have a little fun with it either, Eel.

Go up to the "rookie" and say you've noticed the haven't gotten any clams yet, then ask what kinda bait they are using. Then pull out a Butterscotch life saver put it on the sand and say " now we sit and wait."

It helps if you've almost got a limit, makes it believable!

Wait about a minute, then either tell them you are joking, and then the proper technique, or tell them you've gotta get home and they can have the next clam that comes up after the bait. Then go home....


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I liked that idea so well I stopped by the store to get some Butterscotch life savers. They were sold out! They had every flavor but Butterscotch.

Tag, do you know something I don't?

Eel
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-21-11 AT 01:27AM (MST)[p]Eel, I'm just being nice and passing on some clam diggin' info that I got from a guide I knew years ago.

He'd walk around the beach, (as the tide was going out) tossing out them lifesavers. We all looked at he like he was nutz! He'd let'm "soak" for an hour or so, then sneak up on them...

How he knew which bait was getting hit was a mystery to us, but he knew...the rest just got a longer soak, but ALL the lifesavers he ever threw got "hit"!

I'm just trying to be "friendly" and pass it on to ya'll! Hope it helps!


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Every store in town is sold out. I was able to order some from South Dakota. They must not have clams there.

Thanks tag! I owe you!

Eel
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-22-11 AT 00:47AM (MST)[p]i'Ve been watching these rooms for awhile but untel now, havent had the need to ask. But sence you are talking about being friendly,i Could use a few pointers...as far as fly fishin goes.

We aint got nothing but a little catfish pond over here, but there's some small bass and sunfish in ther too.

I wanna start flyfishin and think a 6 waight might be good, just incase one of them mudfish takes a fly.

Also, what kinda fly's would be good?

I'm just tired of thrown liver on a big hook!

I may throws a lifesaver in the water if it helps too.



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A 5 or 6 wt would be fine. Try some brown,green or black wooly buggers. I've done well using damsel nymphs and san juan worms as well. Poppers in the summer are a hoot.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-28-11 AT 00:31AM (MST)[p]I'm mostly fed up with people lately especially the freaking guides. Years ago, they'd say hi or whatever, now they just try to run your @ss over when you're trying to work a hole. I guess they expect you to jump out of their way and that they own the rivers.

Having said that however, it's also nice to meet a stranger that's friendly and has the time to shake your hand, share a story, and a slice of jerky. I think we can all attest that it's just as satisfying to see someone catch a fish off a fly you gave a stranger, than landing one yourself.

Reading about all these stories is making me wish all that snow would melt so I can get a fly wet.

TRH
 
Gaetz...I'm not sure where you are, but here in Utardville the fishing has been great for the last 3+ months. Why wait til the summer crowds hit the rivers?

My 2 cents on your thoughts on guides...if a guide gets his client(s) to a section of a river before I do...I'm SOL. Period. It'd be like 3 other guys working a hole...except with a guide I wouldn't even ask if they minded if I fished close, I'd just move on! But if I get to a hole first...and there isn't room for 2 or 3 more, I'd expect the same courtesy from that guide to NOT try to put everyone on the same section...and if asked I WOULD speak my peace...and stick to it.

I'd be more flexible if it wasn't a guided group...





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LAST EDITED ON Jun-28-11 AT 05:20PM (MST)[p]I just got back from Alaska, one of the rivers i always fish is the Russian/Kenai to load up on Reds.
You ain't never seen combat fishing till you been there!!!!
Ya gotta bring your own rock to stand on there's that many folks fishing those rivers.
For thousands of people it is their first time there and they have no clue on how to go about hooking up on Reds, you can have hundreds of Salmon right in front of you and if you don't know how to fish em you ain't gonna hook up plus you're gonna lose all your tackle trying, kinda sad really...
So when i see folks struggling i always offer to lend a hand,
most think I'm full of sh1t when i tell em these fish just won't strike and that you gotta floss em, some folks just can't comprehend that.
So i set em up with the right tackle and explain the technique used to catch these fish and coach em for awhile, i have no idea how many people i helped catch their first Salmon through the years but it's a bunch, it's just about as much fun seeing/helping folks hook up their first as it is to catch em myself.
Some folks have just broke down crying after landing their first.
I also always spin up a hundred extra Russian river flies before i head up each year, most folks show up with 10/20 flies thinking that should last 3 or 4 days but if you ain't dialed in you will lose those in a couple'a hours, i have no doubt that i have given away hundreds maybe thousands of flies through the years.
I have made quite a few friends from all over the country this way and have had many offers to hunt and fish with them in their home state.
 
runamuk, that's nice! Flossing Reds is a blast! I've only done it once on the Kenai, but me and my two brothers had the time of our lives. We fished the late run. What's your favorite setup? Rod style, length, reel. line weight?

Eel
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-30-11 AT 09:41PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-30-11 AT 09:27?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Jun-30-11 AT 09:17?PM (MST)

>runamuk, that's nice! Flossing Reds is
>a blast! I've only done
>it once on the Kenai,
>but me and my two
>brothers had the time of
>our lives. We fished the
>late run. What's your favorite
>setup? Rod style, length, reel.
>line weight?
>
>Eel

Thems some livly fish ain't they Eel??

My favorite rig is a 9'-8wt St.Croix fly pole with a Lamson #4 Konic reel, for line i use Superfly 10wt line with a 10ft wieghted tipit that sinks around 9ft per second then i tie a barrel swivel to it with a 8ft 25# Stren leader then on the Kenai i use a 3/4 ounce Gremlin rubber core twist on sinker i put my sinker between 5&6 ft above my fly, same thing on the Russian except i use a 1/2 ounce sinker unless the Russian is running really high and fast then i use the 3/4 there also.
That rig up right there is a Red fetchin' git up for sure.

I watched a guy this year that was useing a tungsten tipit that would sink at 14 inches per second and he didn't use any other sinker at all, man talk about the ultimate flossing rig it was nothing but floss and never once did he snag up on bottom, that ol boy was sure hooking up, think I'm gonna try that route next year.

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-30-11 AT 09:43PM (MST)[p]Great thread tag,, some feel good readin' for shore..

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runamuk, thanks for the info and photos. They bring back great memories. We used bait caster rod and reels.

overton, what is a chernobyl ant? (I think I may be sorry I asked).:)

Eel
 
Foam is cool and it catches fish! A guide friend on the San Juan sells a foamie through Orvis called the cartoon hopper. Funniest looking bug, but you better hide it when tying it on....seriously! It's a REAL bad bug in black!
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Here's my arsenal. There's 2 rows of 'toons in the box in the lower right of the pic.


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Was digging around tonight and decided to set up boxes for my son and future step grandson. Probably 150-200 flies for each. I need to upgrade my boxes anyway and they'll appreciate the bugs!

Another pic I love is one taken by a friend during the fall on the San Juan. A bunch of us were doing a flotilla and he snapped a shot of me in the front of my boat. Probably had 12 friends in 4 boats that day. My son loves to row and Dad isn't complaining one bit...besides, I made the payments ;)

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The two most important people in my life...my fiance Debbie and my son James. She's a natural with a fly rod and kicks my butt every time we go.

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