Working Dogs

onemoreridge · Jan 24, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Jan-24-12 AT 02:23PM (MST)[p]Looking at the post about pointers, chuckars and pups got me interested in seeing pictures of everyones working dogs. Here is a pic of my 1 yr old female lab Abby after a quick morning duck hunt the end of Dec. when the weather was still warm for our area. I don't have many field photos but this is the end result for the day. We ended up have our best hunting in Jan. for waterfowl but didn't get any pics from those days.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos/8360107-1.jpg

eldorado · Jan 24, 2012

Perfect ending. BTW, what a gorgeous lab. Thanks for sharing.

Eldorado

Shummy · Jan 24, 2012

If it's working dogs you would like to see, then I can hook you up. Here are a bunch of dogs I own, or am training for clients.
The Reckoning

Shummy's Honky Tonk Elbow

Shummy's Desert Revenge. He's a six month old pup, he'll run his first derby stake in a couple of weeks.

Shummy's Day Of Reckoning. She's also a six month old pup who'll run in her first derby stake too.

This is Bella, she belongs to a client, I've been training her for a couple of weeks.

This is Tuffy, he belongs to a good friend of mine. He may run at Ames this year!

Here is the late, great Shanna Boo. I had her before either of my wives or kids, I wore out three trucks with her in the back. I miss her dearly, she was a truly magnificent bird dog.

onemoreridge · Jan 27, 2012

Eldo - Thank you, I have really enjoyed her this year and look forward to many more good years.

Shummy - Thanks for the pictures, very impressive as always. A question for you, our family has been a lab family forever, everyone in the family has always had labs. I really have no background with pointers but laterly have had an increasing interest in them. Down the road if I wanted to get a pointing dog is there a breed that may be better suited for a pointing dog novice? I have an interest in the wirehairs but am open for all suggestions. Also how would a retriever and a pointer work together when out hunting?

Shummy · Jan 27, 2012

Obviously, I prefer the English Pointer breed for several reasons. I feel that if you do your homework and get a pup from well bred, proven parents, you have great odds of picking a good pup, even if you are inexperienced. EP's are natural athletes, and a lot of what they do comes with very little training. If you have access to birds, that's about all it takes. If you wish to compete, then there is a bit more to it, but, for the most part, that comes easy too. When I was a kid, my dad liked German Shorthairs, and I know that some of those dogs are good as well, but all the ones I've had to train have been nuts! I won't own another one. I have friends that have Wirehairs and Drathars, and some of them are great dogs, however some of them are very mean. I have a friend that has a big Wirehair, and the list of things it has killed is very long, including other dogs, so they aren't a dog I would choose.
I also know guys that run their Labs and Pointers together, but it takes a great deal of training, and I think its kind of pointless. Both breeds have their strong points, and I don't think they really complement each other. Pointers are big running, ground covering machines, If there are birds to be found 9.5 times out of 10 they are going to find them before the Lab. However, in tight, close cover a Lab can be a great asset. If you decide that you would like a pointing dog, I would be glad to help you find a good litter of whatever breed you choose, as well as help you with the training. Good luck, big running pointers are a blast!
Micah,
Pointing S Gundogs.

runamuk · Jan 27, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Jan-27-12 AT 09:59PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-27-12 AT 09:58?PM (MST)

Shummy · Jan 28, 2012

That last pic, with the dog looking up is cool!

Califelkslayer · Jan 28, 2012

Shummy/runamuck, Thanks for sharing. Kool pics.

Runamuck, Love seeing a senior citizen still doing it. I'm talking about the dog. You have a dog that long and there becomes a bond like no other.

Shummy, when your dog's head is high, does that mean the birds are a ways away? and head lower, bird closer? I noticed the different head positions in your pics.

Until I started hunting behind my male GSP I never noticed that before. But my other dogs would usually point pretty close anyways. Both of my dogs now will point at extreme distances and then we creep for 100s of yards til we get to the birds (scent conditions, breeze, everything being right) I can usually tell when birds are close because the head gets lower and lower.

Just wondering if this is something I've been missing for all these years and if it's common. I would have never noticed it. I actually discovered it after looking at prints of my male on point.

Califelkslayer · Jan 28, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Jan-28-12 AT 10:18AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-28-12 AT 10:14?AM (MST)

Onemore, your picture is kool too. Didn't mean to leave you out, just fascinated with pointers.

I posted several pics of my 2 dogs in the California Forum under X5B/015 pics if you want to look at some more pics.

Not a real backing photo but I have several from 2 weeks ago that I haven't had time to put on the puter. I believe one her backing him and one him backing her. After the season's over next weekend, I'll get those up.

Shummy · Jan 28, 2012

It can mean that, but it's not really a rule. Some lines of English Pointers point with a really high head, and my dogs are strong on those lines. Generally, when their head is low, its because the bird is close, but it could also mean that they hit a scent hard in the breeze and just locked up in that position. In competition you will score better with a high head and tail. In a hunting situation, I would approach the dog with your train of thought, meaning low head, the birds might be close and my dog better not creep!

Califelkslayer · Jan 28, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Jan-28-12 AT 10:35AM (MST)[p]What I believe is happening with my male is he points at "first scent." That's when my other dogs would get birdy, instead he points. When I get to his rear, he starts creeping.

His first year he'd point and I would go 50+ yards past him, looking for the birds. He'd hold until after they flushed. After 2 months of letting him stay steady, I started touching him as I went by him and saying "let's get em." My problem before was I'd have to try to figure out where the birds were based on wind and terrain. And sometimes I'd be off 40-50 yards with the birds getting up beside me on the fringe of range or out of range.

Now, once I get to him, if he stays steady, I find good footing and wait for the covey rise. If the birds are a ways out, he creeps and points, creeps and points. This is usually at 50-150 yards event but 3 weeks ago, we did this for over 500 yards. My partner stayed behind on a rim and just watched because he didn't want to loose the elevation. I just wished he had been able to video it.

My female ranges lots more and usually when she points, the birds are right there. Her funny trait is the last couple of weeks, when she's on birds, she rolls her ears over so you can see the inside of her ears. I'll try to find a photo of that too.

Actually, you can see her right ear in the photo above.

Shummy · Jan 28, 2012

You may find as he gets older he will work in closer on birds until he's certain that he has them pinned. Really, there is no right and wrong way to do it, its all about personal preference. I like a broke dog, but its very hard to keep them broke on wild, running birds. And sometimes it takes a bit of creep to keep the birds from flushing out of range.

onemoreridge · Jan 28, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Jan-28-12 AT 07:09PM (MST)[p]Thanks for the pics, all are very impressive. No worries califelk, I understand that everyone has their breed of dog that gets them going. For me it is labs but I do respect the pointers and the work they do and the last little bit have an increasing interest in them. I am not much of a camera person but after looking at all the good photos I may need to make it a priority to take more pics.

Califelkslayer · Jan 31, 2012

The guy I bought my male from had 8X10s all over his garage. I asked him how often the photo taking resulted in no shots at a decent covey rise. he told me that it happens but the covey rise only lasts a few swconds and the pic lasts forever. I then changed my thought process. And usually I can take a photo and still get into position to shoot. i find that after I have a few birds in the bag, I'm more likely to take photos.

Dirtysteve · Feb 1, 2012

Shummy
You went pro?

Shummy · Feb 1, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-12 AT 06:37AM (MST)[p]I wish! I'm not near good enough to make a living at it. I have taken dogs to train, but its not a regular thing. I'm doing it full time at the moment, because I had shoulder surgery and I can't do my regular job for awhile.

Dirtysteve · Feb 2, 2012

Oh I got ya. It's not your shootin shoulder thats screwed up is it?
I don't know if you know or if it matters to you but if you ever decide to run any AKC events you will be considered a pro and won't be able to run in any AM stakes.
Any compensation for training and the AKC considers you a Pro.
Kinda sucks cause I would like to train a few dogs for people myself but don't so I can run the Am stuff.
You going to run in the Feb NSTRA trial?

Dirtysteve · Feb 2, 2012

Here's a few of my workin mutts

All this usually results with this

Shummy · Feb 2, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-12 AT 10:45AM (MST)[p]Jeez you've got a nice string of dogs! It is my shooting shoulder that's screwed up, and I do know that I'm considered a pro by AKC standards, I also know that there are a bunch of guys running AM stakes that do the same thing as me, they just don't report it I guess. I am running in the February nstra trial, I'm going to try and finish Dominos nstra Ch this year. I was going to run those pups in Mesquite, but they weren't very organized with the event, so I'm going to skip it. Frankly I'm very intimidated with those horseback events, my dogs probably can't compete with you guys.

Dirtysteve · Feb 2, 2012

You have nice dogs and no need to be intimidated. I know that there are guys that do that but if they get caught they can loose alot so to me it's not worth it.
Mesquite is a cluster. I doubt it will even happen. I won't be going.
Come to some of our trials up here. We would love to have you

Shummy · Feb 2, 2012

I agree that It isn't worth it. I will come to a trial, maybe the walking trial that's coming up, I hope the Mesquite trial happens, its close to home and I could at least go check it out. I need to get my dogs dual registered so I can participate.

Murphy · Feb 13, 2012

Big Leeo working some quail.

Ranger on some chukar.

Califelkslayer · Feb 13, 2012

Steve/Murp, great photos, thanks for sharing.

Califelkslayer · Feb 27, 2012

Shummy, just noticed the "boots" on one of you pups. I'm curious when you decide to boot your dog?

I've considered it when I know I'm hunting the same dog 3 straight days. But I have a friend that has booted his dogs for over 20 years.

I have always believed that the paws could be toughened by roading them or hunting them, but then again maybe I've never had a dog (susiptible?) to sore feet.

I'm curious on your thoughts.

Shummy · Feb 28, 2012

That particular area is one of the worst cholla cactus areas I've ever seen, it is also lousy with quail. If you don't boot up your dog, they get pretty lame in a hurry. That cactus is nasty stuff and its nearly impossible to get it all out, and it can cause some real harm if it gets infected. That's the only situation that I use boots in. Those particular boots are called Lewis boots and can be had on Lion Country Supply. We put a baby sock on the foot, and then the boot and duct tape it in place. It's a huge pain in the butt! There is also a product called tuff foot that I've used that will help toughen a dogs pads.

Califelkslayer · Mar 2, 2012

I have a partner that always booted his English setters in rocky, chukar terrain. Couldn't boot his dogs before we got there because they would chew em off.

He got a niece of my male and I encouraged him not to boot it. Has worked out fine for him in 2 seasons.

I was just curious. Cactus makes sense.