Hornady FPB bullets

COLOelkman

COLOelkman

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Since these bullets have been noted on several threads, thought I'd start a new one. For background, these are bullets marketed to compete with Powerbelts as they do not require any lube as is the case with conicals. The link is:

www.hornady.com/media/2008catalog/Page_0043.pdf

I called Hornady today and they told me they started shipping them a week ago. He didn't know specifics but said to look for them on shelves soon. He said Walmart bought 1/2 million of them. I asked about Cabelas or other retailers and he wasn't sure who'd be getting them first. So, anyone that finds them might want to post here to spread the word as I know several posters have been looking to try them.
 
I just got off the phone with Hornady as well. They started shipping today. But, I am so pissed off. These bullets will not be legal to use in Colorado. I didn't know this until today. The bullet length is more then double the width of the bullet. They will measure 1.152" in length. Atleast thats what the guy told me. I am not sure if it is possible to grind some of flextip off and make it 1" or not.

Either way, I have been waiting for this bullet for months, and since they compare to the Powerbelts I was sure I could use them. I was wrong!

The guy at Hornady said he is not sure whay they did that but they should look into fixing it.
 
I called Hornady again as I'd also be very disappointed if they are illegal in Colorado. They told me they are looking into it. The also said they (or someone) had shot some after pulling out the polymer tip and didn't see any noticable difference in accuracy. If the tip is out, the bullet would be less than one inch making it legal. Not sure how hard it is to get the tip out. They also said whether it's legal or not is not exactly clear. They're not sure if the tip count's towards the length. Also the diameter of the base is larger than .50 inches (he didn't say what it is) thus it could be somewhat longer than one inch but it would have to be around .57 inch dia. which I assume not. Thus, some uncertainty whether it's OK or not in Colorado. I called DOW today and asked about the L vs W issue and they had no idea as to why the rule is what it is and they weren't sure who'd know. Thus, I'd like to write them a letter and ask them to verify whether the FPB would be legal as is or not. He also did read off some stores where they've been shipped. Midway and Cabelas were a couple as well as in Colorado he mentioned #####'s. Several other places he mentioned were back east.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-26-08 AT 07:41AM (MST)[p]I hope the Hornady FPB design works as well as the Powerbelts in terms of accuracy in my rifles. Hornady at least seems concerned about terminal performance and have attempted to get the bullet to hold together by introducing a thicker jacket. The concave base, while not a new idea, seems like a better solution to a good gas seal than a plastic skirt that doesn't always release at the right time. I live and hunt Colorado and I'm aware of the length vs. dia. rule. Since there's already restrictions on caliber, projectile weight, and sabots, I really don't know what the DOW is attempting to control with the 2x rule. The Colorado DOW has stated that skirts are not counted in the length of Powerbelts since they are intended to drop off in flight. One could argue that the polymer tips are more decorative than functional, or just pull them off. I seriously doubt you could measure any significant ballistic difference within 100-150 yards anyway.
 
I called Hornady yesterday in an effort to find a retailer that carries the new FPB bullets. I was told that they are being manufactured right now but they have not been shipped yet. They expect to begin shipping FPB's in the next couple of weeks. This was inconsistent with many of the reports I have heard on the internet. If someone finds a place where you can buy FPB's please let us know.

Hawkeye
 
Well, I have two units of them headed my way from Grafs, bought when I was told by the DOW that they were legal. However, I want to try them anyway. They probably would fly ok if you cut the tip off, making them Colorado legal. Anyway , I am going to give it a try.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
I was told by Hornady that they have been shot with the tips pulled out with no noticable accuracy difference seems reasonable. I assume the coefficient would be a bit different and they may have a slight difference in drop but as far as hunting in Colorado with open sights, I can't imagine any accuracy concerns. I would personally be more concerned about bullet performance after impact. ie. I have had several bad experiences with powerbelts fragmenting but I can't say for sure what type I was shooting, hollow pt or arrow tip as I have used both over several years. From a previous poster, the arrowtips don't fragment as much. Since Hornadys bullet itself would be different, I'd like to see a comparison of the bullets with and without the tip to see if there's any noticable difference.
 
Well I have a box of these in hand, and they certainly measure more than an inch with the plastic tip in. They measure right at one inch without the tip. I am pretty sure they don't go over, but only had a regular tape measure to measure them with . The tip comes out easily though. Was able to pull it out with my fingers. My question now is, how to load them that way without deforming the nose of the bullet without the plastic tip.?

It has also been suggested that you could cut the plastic off flush with the top of the hollowpoint. Any ideas if that would be better than just using them as a hollowpoint?

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
txhunter,

I would use the jag that TC makes for thier shockwave bullet. It has a concave shaped head which makes contact with the bullet evenly around the outside and doesn't push on the bullet tip.

Oakbrush
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-04-08 AT 11:38AM (MST)[p]I ordered three packcges from the Graf's link provided by APBT. I was surprised to hear that they were available considering that Hornady told me that were not. I am waiting for them to arrive so I can field test them and compare them to the SST's I have been shooting.

Hawkeye
 
I also just got a few packs from Graf's. I've called Cabelas and they'd heard of them but didn't have them available via call in or net. I've also not been able to locate any via other retailers or internet hunting as well. Graf's seemed to be fairly quick. I won't be able to shoot them for a while but I'll post when I do.
 
Please make sure and let us know how they shoot after a trip to the range. Very interested to hear how they perform.

Thanks in advance....
 
My plan is to shoot some tomorrow out of my KRB, but they are predicting 20-30 mph winds and 95 degree temps. We will see.

I did buy a micrometer at lunch today so I can at least measure them and determine that they are Colorado legal without the plastic tip. With my regular carpenter's measuring tape, they are right at one inch. Could go a little either way.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Who came up with the goofy laws in colorado? Do the CO's really whip out a tape measure and measure your bullets? Some people in this world don't have a whole hell of a lot to do..........
 
Ok, my caliper shows them WITHOUT the tip, to be right at an inch, AND about 1/4 of a millimeter OVER.

However, their width is also about 1/2 of a mm over 1/2 inch. So, I don't see how they could say they are anything but legal. They are certainly NOT longer than twice their width.


txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
TX - that's what Hornady also told me....since the dia. is larger than .5 in to engage the rifling, anything near an inch should be OK. And I'd doubt the DOW officers carry a tape but if they know new bullets, which I'm not sure they'd be up on everyting, they'd know only from looking at it since they unique. I'm going to email the DOW to see if I get an answer on the 2x dia rule cause when I called them the week before last, they didn't know why that rule existed. At any rate, my main desire is to see what they look like after impact.
 
Someone that has the authority to make a decision at the dow needs to look at the bullet and determine it is legal (and then let everyone know). They were able to quickly let everyone know the electra was legal the 1st year it was available and they were just as efficient making it illegal the following year. This could be the new best option for CO ML bullet and its important they clear it up. As for Hornady. Surely they knew Colorado would be one of (if not) the best market for this bullet. I assume they were aware of the regulation...would it have affected the bullet that much to make it a fraction shorter?
 
Well, going on the assumption that without the tip, they are legal, and in spite of 95 degree weather and 15-20 mph winds, I couldn't resist going to the range on my afternoon off and shooting some for the first time. Have to say I like what I see so far.

I used my KRB with a rear Williams peep and a front globe fiberoptic post, 90 grains of 3f 777 and a remington STS 209 primers. I tried triple 7 primers first, but they were not as accurate. I pulled the plastic tips out and shot them only as hollowpoints.

I shot one group of 4 at 70 yards that measured 1 & 3/4 inches and one group of 4 at 100 yards that measured 2 & 1/4 inches! With the wind, that was exceptional in my book. In 4 years of trying to shoot conicals with my Omega, not once did I get groups that good.

Anyway, I am going to wait until a calm day to go back for some more experimentation, but it looks good so far.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Texas Hunter 58,
I respect your opinion and pay close attention to what you say. I know that you are interested in using the new Hornady FPB bullets this fall in Colorado. In your opinion, are they legal at this time for use this fall in Colorado? Never tried them but might. I followed your advise last autumn and lowered my powder charge (from 130 to 90 grains of 777) and changed my bullet from PowerBelt 405 to the Great Plains HPHB 425 grain lead bullet. I was unsuccessful in harvesting a cow elk in Colorado but I was satisfied with this load. I will be looking for you comments concerning this new bullet on MM. Please address my question when you can find the time to reply. Thank you, Cowtag.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-08 AT 09:03PM (MST)[p]According to the DOW in reply to a question about legality, they are NOT legal with the plastic tip in place, but I feel confident that they are legal if you remove the plastic tip. According to my measurments, their length IS less than twice their diameter, so they should be legal.

With my preliminary shots today, they seem to fly well as a hollowpoint. The only question left in my mind is how well they fly at longer distances (I want a bullet that is good to go out to 150 yards) and how they perform on game. The jury is still out on the second question because the bullet was just released this month. The data on terminal performance looks good on paper, at least in Hornady's test comparison to powerbelts: http://www.hornady.com/media/2008catalog/Page_0043.pdf They appear to hold together better through a wider range of velocities and distances. Of course that is coming from Hornady, not some independent tester. We really won't know until some people kill some critters with them.

From what I have seen so far, I think this bullet's construction may be a hybrid between our pure lead conicals and the better built sabots, which could lead to better performance on game. That said, I don't think you will go wrong with the load you have. 425 grains of pure lead behind 90 grains of 777 should be great elk medicine!

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
They were a snug fit in the KRB and required a firm push to seat. Nothing like I hear some sabots take though.

My only question is about starting them. I had a sabot loading jag on my ramrod to load, but figure that I could get them a little crooked starting them with such a long rod. Are there any short starters that would work with this bullet and not deform it?

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-12-08 AT 10:22AM (MST)[p]Once the bullet is completely in the barrel I doubt if it would be crooked or deformed like a pure lead can be. The old TC ball and stick short starter and a T-handle starter -Both can have a cone shaped adapter screwed right into them to start your bullet with if you think you need it - I have 3 boxes ordered from grafs. If they fly better than the PB I'll be real happy.
 

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