Another Idaho 'lope

Since the talk lately has been about White muzzle loaders and long range shooting, I thought I'd post my Idaho antelope, taken using Blank's White muzzy, at an astounding 310 yards. Before the ethics folks jump up, Blank knows exactly what his White's drop is, and I had no wind, the buck was standing still and I had very stable prone rest. In fact, the only thing that would have been any better would have been a vise! Without both of these factors, I would not have tried the shot.

I estimated a 36 inch drop using 14" for the horns and another 15-18" for his neck. Holding at the top of his horns, this bullet entered the top of the shoulder and traveled completely through, taking out the bottom of the spine and dropping him in place.


Oh, and Idaho is no slouch for speedgoats, either!

Congrats, on a great buck. Outstanding shot!

That's a very good goat!

Pred,

Fantastic buck ! Incredible shot ! You and Blank cleaned house in Idaho this year. Are you going to get your own White muzzleloader now ? or will Blank just borrow you one of his again ?

LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-13 AT 11:27PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-13 AT 11:25?PM (MST)

Thanks guys. CO- I own two Knight's myself, and had my favorite dialed in (or so I thought) with the conicals required in Idaho. I still don't understand how reducing the accuracy/penetration of a rifle by removing the use of a sabot/jacketed bullet is a good thing, but I don't make the rules. Anyway, one day before I left for Idaho, I went back to the range, same bullets, same loads, and the rifle shot 8 inches high at 50 and would not group worth a crap. Keep in mind, this is the same muzzleloader that I used to take down a Muley at 200 yards previously, so I was a bit panicked.

I did have problems adjusting to the sight on the White, in fact, I missed many shots in the morning, most under 150 yards. I was not 'burying the bead' in the bottom of the sight. This final shot took a while to not only figure out, but I made sure I buried that bead and that I was steady and certain of my target.

Will I change to a White. Probably not, why would I when. Blank has TWO? But this hunt taught me some lessons.

I learned that I will never use TC Maxi-Hunters in my rifles, that I need to spend waaaaaay more time and effort to develop loads for conicals, and to shoot at yardages farther than I might consider shooting, just like I do with my bow.

In fact, I've seen some of post steel gong targets, does anyone have a full pic of one. I'd like to have a buddy build a portable to use. Any help there is appreciated.

Nice antelope. IF you want to shoot long range with a conical the best method is going to be paper Patching. Ron

LAST EDITED ON Oct-31-13 AT 08:45PM (MST)[p]Pred,

marley has been shooting gongs with his whites. Look at the post titled "300 and 400 groups" here in the Muzzleloader section for pictures of the gongs he's shooting. They look like portable gongs that are designed like saw horses. Maybe marley will see this thread and comment more on them.

Again, those are excellent field photos of your Idaho antelope.

Ron, tell me why? I tried everything but paper. Lubed with no wad, in lined overlubed felt, lubed over lubed felt. None of them grouped as well as the Hornady jacketed HP in sabot.

I have also heard that even a patched ball May group better than some conicals; however, I only tried the TC conicals. Blank prefers the Great Plains, and indeed they grouped better in the field.

First, I resent the fact that she thinks I only have TWO of the Whites in the safe (more like 4-5), along with stainless synthetic sidehammer guns for winter use and a GM Longrange gun similar to all of Rons.

The way to get proficient is to shoot them all, a lot, in all kinds of scenarios. Put hundreds, or thousands, of rounds down range every year to learn loads/trajectory/flight times/etc. Marley has it figured with his gong and I always prep for my seasons after shooting targets with full-size animal targets.



Cheap and easy to make, and will work for a decoy if you want. I will put them at the limit of my shooting range, and anything inside that is acceptable. Antelope in the rut don't seem to care how bad my drawing and painting skills are either!

Cuz you only offered a choice of TWO.

>Ron, tell me why? I
>tried everything but paper.
>Lubed with no wad, in
>lined overlubed felt, lubed over
>lubed felt. None of
>them grouped as well as
>the Hornady jacketed HP in
>sabot.
>
>I have also heard that even
>a patched ball May group
>better than some conicals; however,
>I only tried the TC
>conicals. Blank prefers the
> Great Plains, and indeed
>they grouped better in the
>field.

The paper on the bullet protects the barrel from the bullet. No lead in the barrel that builds up and ruins accuracy. The paper protects the bullet from the barrel, and the fire. When the powder goes off if the fit is not tight the fire can leak past the bullet doing damage to the bullet ruining accuracy. I also use an over powder wad to insure that no gas is cutting my paper or bullets. Lastly, a lot of conicals can and will move off the powder charge. I have seen it happen. With paper patching this can not happen. You size for a perfect fit and the gun and load is,,,, consistent. After sighting in my rifles I have never had to adjust. They shoot the same year in and year out.
I used to like the Hornady Great plains bullets but to be honest the lead is super butter soft. On my hardness tester they measure .015 and my 50 cal bullets are .035 and my 45's are .045
My testing has proven that big bullets need to be a little harder than butter. Pure lead is 5 BHN. My 50's are about 6 to 7 BHN. and my 45's are something like 8 BHN. After seeing many and many of deer, elk, and antelope I will tell you I can compare the Hornady 410 gr Great Plains to my 458 gr paper patch bullets. My bullets have a wider Meplat so at the hit you always hear a solid WWHHOOOPPP!!!! I have seen deer and antelope hit with great plains bullets stay on their feet for quite some time. I even saw a buck deer take 5 hornady Great plains bullets before it went down. All went through the chest. I have never seen an animal stay on their feet after being hit with one of my bullets. Most of the time you never find the bullets because it plow's on through.But this year I found one in an elk. I hit her in the shoulder and crushed the shoulder. The bullet was found in the flank. A buddy of mine shot an antelope in the shoulder and the bullet crushed the shoulder and went down the rib cage sawing off all the ribs and was found in a hind quarter. That bullet was still over 450 grains.
I could go on about how paper patched bullets are also accurate. I can shoot sub 2" groups with my rifles at 100 yards with a peep sight. I have shot a lot of groups that were sub 1".
WHen I make my bullets I grade them and weigh them. They are +- .5 grains. Every bullet is perfect or I won't keep it. Add all that up and you get consistency. To me the last thing I want to worry about on a hunt is my gun or load. Ron

Pred, here are a few pics of gongs..you may want to make an A-frame out of rebar or something for portability, I use these angel iron stands out to over a mile for rifles, buy AR500 steel, it is worth it. I use this guys targets mostly http://www.jcsteeltargets.com/

He is a great guy and the targets money goes to a good cause, i have found no better quality.that last one was a part of a blast door at an airbag plant, it sits at 1760 yards (1mile) but it may be a good size for muzz practice..however with the stand it weighs around 250 pounds







I'm sending a check to "florez" for his rifle tomorrow and look forward to airing it out (idahoron, i dint lowball him

JUDAS Preddy!

300+ Yards with a SmokePole?

Now even you're are getting your TT in a Ringer!

Gotta RAZZ Ya!

I've got a SmokePoler I'll Loan ya!

Kickinest/Smackinest Gun I Own!

600 Grain Conicals!

Uh,did I say it Maimes on Both Ends?














I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!

>
>
>Uh,did I say it Maimes on
>Both Ends?
>
>
>

Way to go preddy!
That's a fine buck and the whole thread has been interesting and informative for me!
I'm an old(er) dog and I still have never hunted/killed with a front-stuffer! THAT HAS GOT TO CHANGE and now I know there are a few folks out there who know their shiite! I'll try to tap into the knowledge.
Thanks,
Zeke

Thanks everyone! I'm working on gong acquisition and will start really playing and I'm sure becoming amazed at what my frontstuffers can do!

I wish now I'd of had the Gun I got now back in the Day of the Ole HAWKIN!

Some of them Bucks woulda been more than just SKEERED!

Now I have the Gun!

But not the Bucks to see & Shoot at!












I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!

What gun do you have? Ron