caps vs 209's

Is the ignition reliability of 209 primers better than #11 caps? In other words, does converting to 209's prevent mis-fires/hang-fires? Do 209 primers improve accuracy? velocity? Are 209 primers more reliable when hunting in wet conditions?

I'm trying to decide if I would gain anything from converting my White to shoot 209's. I had problems this fall with mis-fires. The RWS #11 caps that I was shooting were too tight on the nipple and the hammer wasn't firing the cap on the first hit. A second hit, would ignite the charge. I heard others say to sand the nipple down to prevent this. I haven't tried that yet.

Just looking for you guys experience in comparing 209's to caps.

Thanks,
COBUK

I was having the same problem with my White .504 until I bought a new breech plug for it. Then I just got a White super 91 .451 and it's doing the same thing. I'm thinking of buying the .209 conversion kit for it or trying the new breech plug.

According to Doc White's website the #11 are actually better at sealing off the breech plug than the .209s are in wet weather. As far as percentage of misfires, I can't say.

LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-13 AT 02:27PM (MST)[p]Marley,

Thank you for the response. Did you see any noteworthy difference between how your White S91 .504 shoots on the range or in the field compared to your hunting buddy's S91 .504 (with the 209 conversion kit installed)? If there was a difference between the two ignition types, the long range testing that you guys do would have exposed any significant changes.

BTW, thank you for posting all of your muzzleloading info on here. I for one have learned a lot from your posts.

Much appreciated,
COBUK

We haven't noticed any difference in accuracy. The only difference is that he gets the same velocity with the .209s and 85 grains of Pyrodex P as I do with the #11s and 95 grains of Pyrodex P pushing the same bullets. We were both smacking the gong at 300 yards with no problems using either one.

Doc White says the #11 cap is almost impermeable to weather with the musket cap being almost as good and the .209 being the worst for weather conditions.

Gonna Call BS on 209's being the Worst!

I have NEVER had a Mis-Fire with the 209 Ignition!

I've had my Gun so Wet you couldn't have got it any wetter a few times!

The 209 went off just fine!

Ya,I still remember the Year that F'N Cap cost me a 30" Buck!

I just sent My Bolt for the next Muzz Build back to Fred Arnold for another 209 Conversion!

I Ain't Screwin around with anymore Caps!

You could resort to a FlintLock!












I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!

This isn't from personal experience. I'm only quoting what is written by Doc White and I believe he is only referring to his rifles.

I know what you're sayin Marley!

I remember back in the Days of the HAWKIN,Long before everybody & their Buddies Buddy had an Inline the Problems I've seen/endured with the Damn Caps!

I'm not just gonna Blame the Caps alone!

Most Nipples have such a Small Hole in them they are to Blame as well!

If you've shot SmokePoles with Caps much you've Experienced Ignition Problems!

Since doing Top of the Line/Best 209 Conversions I can find available I have had ZERO Problems & Don't worry about it anymore!

The Year the Cap Cost me a 30" Buck,well I ain't forgot that yet!

That was a lot of years ago,I made a special Trip to Sportsmans Warehouse for Fresh Caps cuzz I like keeping things Fresh!

After the miss-fire on the Buxk I went back to Camp to figure it out:

I dry Fired 20 Caps,8 Miss-fires out of the 20!

Drove clear back Home to get my Old/last years caps,not a problem with them,Ya I was PISSED!

I found a Guy who was a machinist that was making the 209 conversions before they were for sale on the Market,converted & never had to worry/wonder rather this damn Gun was gonna go off ever again!

I Ain't gonna say all Caps are Faulty because they are not,but I'll stay/take my chance with the 209's which I have never had a problem with!

Some will say the 209's are too Hot!

But then again they say the 3fff Powder I shoot is too Hot also!

When you Squeeze the Trigger on My Gun/Load and you feel that INSTANT BANG of a Magnum Rifle it's just a Good Feeling knowing everything is "THERE"!
















I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!

My vote goes to the 209's.


________________________________________
I'm not one for telling my grandson how big of turd I had to pinch off from having to eat so much meat. I want to give him the trophies that hang from my wall and tell him the unforgettable experience that came with each and every one.

Resurrecting an old thread...

My comments will be limited to Whites because that is all I have ever played with in the ML arena. What I will say is this: Doc White himself told me that the 209 primers were too violent for his rifles, and in his experience they tended to cause groups to open up. I am sure he was talking specifically about Pyrodex because that is what he recommended, but those are his words.

Secondly, if you will switch to the RWS 10.75 caps, your problems with "pffft" will be over.

Brent, I am sorry to hear the 451 is acting up. I never shot that one, if memory serves. And I am glad the S91 Brad got from me is working out. I was hoping it would.

I've had problems before with caps and eventually figured out in my case it was just the brand of caps. A good test is to shoot about 15 caps only and see how many misfires you get. When I did this (many years ago) I had about 20% failures. Bought another brand and had 100% success rate. Sorry I don't remember the brands but there are probably threads of comparisons somewhere! I also agree with others on sticking with the #11's for Whites based on Doc's articles on his website.