Knight Disc setup question

CWeeks · Feb 20, 2014

I have a Knight Disc 50Cal that is several years old, but seen little action. I should draw a muzzy mule deer tag for Co this fall and would appreciate someone with muzzleloader experience giving me a starting place on powder and bullets. I've looked at the No Excuses bullets but haven't ordered yet. Also thinking of buying a base, rings, and scope to work up my load before changing to a peep(looking at Williams FP peep sight). Any thoughts on a scope that won't break the bank would be appreciated, I can put it back on and use in my home state when I get back.

txhunter58 · Feb 20, 2014

With my 50 calibur Knight disc type rifle I converted it to the Lehigh type 209 primer breechplug and bolt set up. Now you have to buy that through Knight, but with the kit they send you can use bare 209 primers and BH 209. With BH 209 I usually use remington STS primers, but many people use the CCI magnum 209s. You do need a stout primer

That said, is you want to shoot it as is, I would use either 777 or pyrodex. With 777, you would want to use the reduced power 209s.

You can shoot the 460 gr No excuses and see how they shoot. I believe that is the smallest bullet they make in 50 cal. They are great bullets, but you don't have to use that big of a bullet for mule deer. If you use those, I would start at 80 gr of powder and work up to a max of 100 gr.

You can also try the Hornady FPBs in the 300 gr or 350 gr. With those I shoot between 90 gr and 110 grains.

My personal elk load is 90 gr of BH 209 with the 350 gr FPB out of my knight.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

CWeeks · Feb 20, 2014

What are the advantages of using the converter kit?

bragabit · Feb 21, 2014

LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-14 AT 09:12AM (MST)[p]I went through this same process last year. I have a .45 DISC. I bought the conversion kits to be able to shoot BH 209. I think they are worth the money. I do have a little problem, maybe someone can help me with. Sometimes my bare primers will not drop out after being fired. They bulge out in the back and have to be pryed out. Anyone have a solution for me? Knight CS was not much help. They only suggested switching to Winchester primers I am using CCI.
I had a 2X7 Leupold scope that I took off another gun and mounted on my muzzleloader to get a good load worked up. I ended up shooting 100gr of BH209 with a 300gr Platinum powerbelt. It shot great and hammered my deer. You will have more and better options being 50 caliber. I am in the process of "cupping" out the back of some 300 gr Scorpion Gold .45 bullets similar to a Thor bullets to see if that is a better option for this year.

I did buy the Williams FP Legend sight. It is a good sight, But it is not meant to be adjusted in the field. If you leave the locking screw loose enough to turn the turrets it will change the impact of your bullet. Always tighten it down to shoot for best results. I took me a lot of shots to figure that out. I bought the front sight and hood from Williams also, but it wouldn't fit right so I ended up using the factory front sight and it worked fine. I had to grind a little groove in my stock for the sight to fit properly. I feel really confident out to 200 yards with this set up. Honestly if I had it to do over again, I would NOT buy the sight with target knobs. They get in the way a little and to me are not useful in the field.
I just bought the See-All sight for my boys DISC. I will be setting his gun up for Colorado this fall. I think this sight will be an easier set up for him. I guess time will tell.

Check out this link. It is where I got a lot of my information.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?topic=93503.0

CWeeks · Feb 21, 2014

Seems to me the main reason for using the Williams FP sight would be the ability to adjust it in the field for a ranged distance. If it is not simple and quick to do in the field, I guess I'm not understanding why I would put one on my gun. Looked at the See-All sight and looks interesting. Wish you could get it mounted and report back on it.

txhunter58 · Feb 21, 2014

The main advantage of conversion is to use BH 209. If you don't want to go that direction, there is no reason to get the kit.

I too have the problem of the primers getting stuck and haven't found a great solution either. As you state, other primers might work better, but have tried the CCIs and they were worse. It hasn't been a big problem, so I have not worried about it much.

I am also interested in the seeall sight. Let us know how it works for you. Just don't see how it could be as accurate at a peep rear and front bead due to the length of the sighting apparatus, but if it works more like a scope, it might be ok.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

bragabit · Feb 21, 2014

The Williams peep is an upgrade over the factory sights. I bought it for the adjustment before really researching it. It is just not that easy. I still plan on sticking with it on my gun for this year.
I am taking my sons muzzleloader to my gunsmith today to have 2 more holes drilled and tapped in front of the action so I can have 2 weaver type bases for a longer mount for the See-All sight.

CWeeks · Feb 21, 2014

Looks like Knight wants $125 for conversion kit for my old Disc, seems kinda pricey. Thinking I'll try some triple 7 and some No Excuses bullets and see how she shoots.
Tx, got Jeff set up to scout my mule deer unit, hoping for an early spring in the basin.

txhunter58 · Feb 22, 2014

I am not sure you are pricing the correct conversion kit. Did you call them directly and ask? You can buy the conversion breechplug for $25. If you have the bare primer bolt, that may be all you need.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

bragabit · Feb 22, 2014

Both of my DISC rifles are the original DISC that shoot the orange DISC. I had to buy the conversion kit to shoot the red DISC. Then buy the bare primer breech plug seperately. It will be about $150 if Cweeks gun is the original DISC. I was able to get a guy off Gunbroker to just sell me the bolt out of the conversion kit for $75 then I bought the bare primer breach plug from Knight. Saved me about $50.

blackhorn · Feb 22, 2014

LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-14 AT 11:40AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-14 AT 11:37?AM (MST)

For those that are having primer stick in your bolts its the head spacing that is off on the primer. you can try w209 there the longest primer for 209s. or you can put a washer in your primer pocket for the head spacing. I can not give you a thickness for all guns are different has to be made for your gun. and the primers will come out after you firing the primer clean no blow back or stuck primers.

bragabit · Feb 22, 2014

Blackhorn, thanks for the advice. If you could post a picture of your primer pocket with a washer that would be great. I did read last night that all you need to do is open bolt to recock firing pin and fire on the spent primer and it will knock the bulge out of the primer and it will fall out. I wish I would have thought of that last year.

blackhorn · Feb 25, 2014

LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-14 AT 08:10AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-14 AT 07:59?AM (MST)

Here the pic of the Lehigh plug with a washer in the primer pocket. I use a drill and a bolt and nut and spine it on a file to get diameter then lay washer on file and move back and forth for thickness you only need .003 or .004 crush on the primer more is not needed and makes the bolt hard to close. with this setup use the some brand primer you set it up for.

CWeeks · Feb 27, 2014

Do you have to go to the bare primer or can you still use the Blackhorn powder with the red disk? Seems like they would be easier to handle in the field with gloves on. Also, would a set of Weaver base and rings be universal and fit any muzz or would they have to be designed specifically for a Knight Disc?

bragabit · Feb 27, 2014

I have never tried BH209 with the Red DISC. I know it is not recomended. Many of the other muzzleloader companies mock the DISC, but I agree they are easy to load and unload. You will have to buy Weaver bases that are specific for the Knight DISC gun. They are pretty easy to find.

utfireman · Mar 22, 2014

I have the older knight disc with the orange disc and I switched to bh 209 last year and I didn't do a conversion kit. I did however switch to the cci magnum primers but I never had an ounce of problems with it. In fact this setup has made me fall back in love with my smokepole.

Unless I have missed something, a conversion is not needed??

bragabit · Mar 28, 2014

UT fireman, That is good to know. I will have to go try it out with my sons origanal DISC, and hopefully save myself $150 for a conversion kit. I would much rather handle a DISC than a bare primer in hunting situations. If it shoots good I will put my old bolt back in my gun and use the orange DISC as well.

CWeeks · Apr 1, 2014

Here are 6 shots with my Knight Disc with conversion kit added using 90gr Blackhorn 209, 460gr No Excuses bullets, and a scope with a decent rest at 100yds with a variable wind to the left. My question is should I expect more and vary powder, or is this is about as good as to be expected?

sjhgraysage · Apr 1, 2014

I would assume at this point that you can do better.
In a lot of my research the sweet spot with BH209 powder and sabots is around 100 - 110 grains of powder by volume. With you shooting heavy lead conicals you may find out the magic load is less powder than for sabots. Also I would definitely consider getting some felt wads to load under the bullet, if you have not tried that already. The wads will help seal the bore, BH209 powder preforms best when tightly contained in the bore. Also which primer are you using? You could try a couple different ones to see if that helps.

txhunter58 · Apr 1, 2014

LAST EDITED ON Apr-01-14 AT 06:20PM (MST)[p]I would try 80 and 85 gr of powder next (plenty of power to kill an elk with that bullet). If no joy, then go to 95 and 100, but wouldn't go over 100 with that bullet. A wad under the bullet and at least one other kind of primer is also a good suggestion.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

CWeeks · Apr 2, 2014

I'm using the Winchester 209 primers, but think I've got some cci's I could easily try. How often do you swab between shoots, I found that would throw me completely off the paper unless I ran a couple dry patches through after the one with solvent. Think I'll try going down in powder, it is jumping out of my rest now with just the 90gr, definitely more recoil than with the 2 50gr triple 7's pellets I had used before.

CWeeks · Apr 2, 2014

Little help on using a wad. Do I just order a dry wad and place it on top of barrel then put bullet on top and push both through together? Seems like it would be a little tight for that, any suggestions on where to order and thickness would be appreciated.

sjhgraysage · Apr 2, 2014

I have used dry felt wads with no issues. I just start them in the muzzle with my thumb and then start the bullet as normal and then use the ramrod to seat both on the powder together. the wad will be just snug in the bore, but it really made a difference for me when I tried Hornady FPB with BH209 powder.
Also with BH209 I don't swab between shots. In fact I don't swab until I'm done shooting for the day. You will need to pay attention to the flame channel and clean the carbon out of it maybe every 15 to 20 shots. On my disc extreme it takes a 5/32" drill bit twisted by hand to clean the carbon out of the flame channel.
I ordered felt wads from "Track of the Wolf", the ones they sell are made by East Maine Shooting Supplies who also sells them online. I have seen some lubed ones for sale at local places marketed by Thompson Center. I like the ones that are about 1/8" thick.

txhunter58 · Apr 2, 2014

I have shot up to 30 times in one session without swabbing once. If you do anything, you could pull the breechplug after 15 shots and use the drillbit to clean the rear pocket out

I would NEVER use swabbing solution/cleaner during a session, that will screw you up. If you still want to swab, just run a dry patch down, flip it and swab the other side of the patch. You can't just push it all the way down dry or it could get stuck. I go in/out in very short strokes especially when you get close to the breech.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

CWeeks · Apr 14, 2014

Tried the 80 and 85 grains with patches and still unimpressed with groups. Kinda windy and had to shoot in between gust, but still thought I would do better. Ordered some Hornady FPB 350gr bullets today and will try again this weekend.

Downrange · Apr 21, 2014

I have been using bh209 since the first yr it came out. I have the 45 cal knight with the red disc and it shoots awesome no problems.

CWeeks · Apr 30, 2014

Here are my best three shots at 100yds with 90gr of BH 209 and 350gr Hornady's. Only shot 9 times and was adjusting scope some from the 460gr No-Excuses. Wind picked up and had to head to work, hope to shoot again this weekend and if this tight and consistent I may have found my load, then on to open sights.