Using Black Horn Powder

Early tomorrow morning, I plan on going to the range with a new can of Black Horn powder substitute. Seeking advice about using it ASAP. Should I clean the bore after each shot? What about the final cleaning after the shooting spree is complete? Planning on using from 90 to 100 grains of BH with Hornady bullets and Power Belt. Always used 777 before. Any advice or counsel would be good.

LAST EDITED ON Aug-14-14 AT 06:53PM (MST)[p]I use BH 209, You can load and shoot it without chasing the bore if you like, the only sabot I found that would not work like that is the harvester red smokeless sabot.

To clean up after the range I use Hoppe's Elite gun cleaner, Let it set 10 min,then use the brass brush, then patch dry and use slip 2000 gun lube as it is a CLP and use one dry patch.

I forgot to tell you to Clean your breech plug, I use a soaker that dissolves carbon, I soak the plug for 10 min. Then I use cue tips to clean channels that it can and wipe off the breech plug. Then lightly oil the breech plug inside and out, Then wipe it off. I use teflon tape, look at the front of the plug, roll 2 full wraps on the end, then overlap by 1/2 of every wrap up the plug until it is covered. Make sure your threads in the barrel are clean and also lightly oil them, then lightly wipe off. You will never have a stuck breech plug or nasty clean ups.

Using this procedure if you ever have to push a charge out of your muzzleloader you will not have powder stick in the threads of the gun. Also when you remove the plug the threads in the gun will be about clean, when you take the tape off the breech plug you will find the threads clean. It really beats that nasty grease and never seize clean up. If you are going to hunt in the morning all you have to do is rewrap the plug and put it in the gun then load when ready. It is really quick to do.

When you go to the range the next time your first shot may be off mine was, to eliminate this I patterned my gun with the first shot out of a clean barrel.

To do this between every shot I put one patch of hope's Elite down the barrel both sides, then a dry patch one side, then I put a patch of slip 2000 down the barrel and a patch one side, I then load my gun and shoot.

Now when I remove my gun from the safe my first shot is spot on. The gun that did this was the Accura V2 my Pro Hunter had no problem. I have a .54 cal Renegade that did it with Pyrodex using 430 grain Maxie balls, I lived where I could shoot a fouling shot when I hunted with the renegade, so it wasn't a problem.

I don't know if I would use the powerbelt bullets, if you use not enough or too much powder for the bullet types you will not get good terminal ballistics, I have heard. I hear some types of them are very accurate on the range.

Good Luck with your endeavors, Post back and let us know how your range work goes.

You can use any modern gun cleaners to clean up and lube your gun when shooting BH 209.

Also on the 1st shot out of group there are many theories one being remove the gun lubricant from the barrel before loading and shooting another is pop 3 or 4 209 primers and run a dry patch down the barrel before loading and shooting. There are some others that I can't remember, but I tried them all and they did not work. The procedure I described above worked for me.

For conicals (hornaday FPBs and powerbelts and solid lead slugs) I have never had to swab between shots at the range so I would plan on NOT swabbing. That is the biggest reason I like it. My accuracy does not suffer and I have shot up to 30 shots without swabbing.

Be sure and do this after each shooting session:

http://www.blackhorn209.com/specs/breech-plug-cleaning/

I shot last weekend with Blackhorn 209 in my Knight stainless LRH and other than running a few patches down the barrel after the shooting session I have not cleaned it yet and will take it out again this weekend to shoot without cleaning. Never had a problem. But my gun is stainless too.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

just go to the range and shoot all you want and no swab but you may have to clean the breech plug with a drill bit by hand in the flame channel to keep it shooting good. get home clean the gun just like a center fire gun when using BH209.

LAST EDITED ON Aug-14-14 AT 06:26PM (MST)[p]The CVA BH 209 breech plug takes a 1/8" drill bit, I know I have one. The original CVA breech Plug takes a .116 or a #32 Drill bit I know I have one.

I don't know what you are shooting but find a drill bit that will fit snuggly and on the end of the shank put layers of Electrical tape around it until you can grip it. That carbon sometimes can be a burger.

When I am on the range shooting my gun I will use the drill bit in the flash channel every 3 to 6 shots, When I first got my gun I shot 20 times without swabbing the barrel or chasing the fire channel in the breech plug. Not swabbing was no problem, but when I got home I had to start with small drill bits and work my way up to 1/8" to clear the fire Channel. It was not fun, now I do as described above, I think a restricted fire channel will also affect your accuracy.

Also if you let us know what gun you are shooting, someone may be able to chime in and let you know what size drill bit you need. Also when you get to the range on a fresh day, remember what I said about 1st shot flyers and then the rest grouping. Regardless of what you try to correct this, if it doesn't work, the procedure in the above post will fix it for you.

If you could foul your gun and load before huntng you probably would not have that problem, I don't have a place to do that so I had to come up with another way, it is the first shot that counts. If it is off your hunt is off.

Shoot it to foul it before your hunt,and go.
I do this at local range before season. Don't clean it til end of season. Clean it then like I do my 06',oil and put away til next season.
I've always had fliers on first shot,then it's right on.Always.
TC Z5 Omega. 100grns BH,250 Barnes TEZ sabots.
20 shots easy before breech plug shows sign of fouling.

Appreciate everyone's opinions and advice. I plan on using the Black Horn powder tomorrow for the first time. I will be shooting a three year old TC Encore in .50 (stainless steel). I first used the Power Belt bullets but switched to the Thor all copper in .502 size. Tomorrow, I have a new blister pack of the Hornady all copper bullets Fpb in 350 grain. Plan on using the CCI shotgun 209 primer...starting out at 90 grains of Black Horn. I have never used the Hornady bullet before nor the Black Horn powder substitute. Going to do some experimenting tomorrow at the local gun range (50 and 100 yard distances). I will find and use a 1/8th inch drill bit to clean out the breech plug hole often. I intend on printing off these posts and carrying them with me tomorrow. Thanks again for the information and I am looking forward to using CCI primers, Black Horn, and Hornady bullets tomorrow. Will keep you folks posted. Cow Tag

LAST EDITED ON Aug-15-14 AT 06:03AM (MST)[p]I hope you read this before you go to the range. The T/C Encore Breech plug takes a .116 or a #32 Drill bit. CVA OEM plug takes the same size. But the Blackhorn 209 BP from CVA takes 1/8" drill bit.
If you go to the range and aren't able to clean the breech plug fire channel I wouldn't worry about it, it will just be more of a job when you get home. If you can't chase the breech plug at the range start with small drill bits and work your way up to the sizes listed here.

Before I knew I had to chase the fire channel with a drill bit I fired my gun at the range 20 times before going home. When I found out I needed a drill and everything I checked my plug and it was built up pretty heavy, I am surprised it didn't fail to fire. After using small drill bits and working up to the proper size bit I was good to go.
Also If you ever plan to use teflon on that encore don't use the white or pink type, use the yellow. Don't cover the little rings on the front of the breech plug. Start the wrap just behind the rings.

Visited the local gun range this morning and I have a short report to present. My old Remington 700 ML rifle and Black Horn 209 black powder substitute DO NOT get along. Two years ago, I purchased a 209 conversion kit for this Remington. It features a nipple like structure that screws into the breech plug. I used a CCI muzzle loader primer; 100 grains of Black Horn; a 535 grain No Excuses lead bullet.....first shot ended in a great big ole PUFF of black smoke, a muffled noise, and the bullet probably went 40 feet?
Cleaned the weapon and repeated the process only to the same effect. The problem was IGNITION or lack or ignition. There was a hole for the blast to go thru but the same thing happened on each of the three times I tried. Cleaned her up from number 3 dud and installed 100 grains of 777, a CCI muzzle loader primer, and another 535 grain NO Excuses......Cull-Boom. Houston, we have ignition. Could stand for some of you fellow MM members to jot down your opinion WHY the Black Horn and my old favorite Remmy did not jive this morning. I did everything pertinent to good shooting techniques this morning I believe. All of the approved practices were into effect. Cow Tag

I cannot answer your question. Just to add a comment about ignition. Went out yesterday and used blackhorn with the hornady FPB. The primer used was a 777. They suck with blackhorn. The only reason I used them was the fact that I had a bunch that I use with my old load. Going to use the federal or cci primers I guess.

Early Riser, did your rifle FIRE the Black Horn completely, loudly, strongly?I was using what I thought was a hot primer in the CCI muzzle loader primer but maybe NOT. I was hoping that someone who regularly shoots a Remington model 700 ML rifle would comment about using Black Horn powder in his hunting rifle. Anyone out there? I know that Elk Assassin shoots a Remington 700 in .50 caliber but he uses the REAL STUFF in it....The Original and the One and Only Goex Black Powder. He says he enjoys the stomp the black powder generates in his Remington. I did not enjoy nothing about my shooting experience yesterday using Black Horn in my Remington with its adapter kit in it (a 209 conversion kit). Maybe the answer lies in this 209 conversion? I believe that it does.

>I cannot answer your question.
>Just to add a comment
>about ignition. Went out
>yesterday and used blackhorn with
>the hornady FPB. The
>primer used was a 777.
> They suck with blackhorn.
> The only reason I
>used them was the fact
>that I had a bunch
>that I use with my
>old load. Going to
>use the federal or cci
>primers I guess.

Blackhorn will absolutely not work with 777 primers. Those are reduced strength to try and control the crud ring wtih 777. That is one of the negatives with blackhorn: you HAVE to use a full strength to magnum 209 primer.


txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

>Early Riser, did your rifle FIRE
>the Black Horn completely, loudly,
>strongly?I was using what I
>thought was a hot primer
>in the CCI muzzle loader
>primer but maybe NOT. I
>was hoping that someone who
>regularly shoots a Remington model
>700 ML rifle would comment
>about using Black Horn powder
>in his hunting rifle. Anyone
>out there? I know that
>Elk Assassin shoots a Remington
>700 in .50 caliber but
>he uses the REAL STUFF
>in it....The Original and the
>One and Only Goex Black
>Powder. He says he enjoys
>the stomp the black powder
>generates in his Remington. I
>did not enjoy nothing about
>my shooting experience yesterday using
>Black Horn in my Remington
>with its adapter kit in
>it (a 209 conversion kit).
>Maybe the answer lies in
>this 209 conversion? I believe
>that it does.

If your shooting BH209 in the rem 700 ml do not because its a plunger gun and the primers will fly out of the primer pocket and go in your eye are face. NOT GOOD

Blackhorn, thank you for your comment and advice. I felt a tiny spark hit my left face yesterday while at the range. First time for this situation with the Remington. The 209 primers are all torn up and discolored and massacred after the shot occurs. Was wondering if the primer could be the reason why the powder did not ignite. I believe my problem is in the 209 conversion. Appreciate your imput. Cow Tag

Correcting #7 Post The newer T/C Encore takes a 1/8" drill bit to clean the flash channel in the breech Plug. I was told the older ones may take a .116 or a #32 drill bit. Be sure to check the size of your breech plug before you go to the range. I also noted that you used BH 209 in a Rem 700 ML. Those guys are right, bad business.

Actually I shot a CVA Optima just last week with BH209 and Winchester T7 primers. It shocked the heck out of me at how well it shot and how it went off instantly. They had the BH209 breech plug in it of course.

Now, how would it work when weather turns cold or rainy? That's the big question. Cost of the 777 primers is also stupid at almost $8 per 100.

The cooler 777 primers also left behind a lot more fouling in the bore.

I agree with FrontierGander about the fouling in the bore with Winchester 777 ML primers. I notice this when I clean the bore after every practice shot. lots of soot.