209 mag primers?
- Thread starter 31incher
- Start date
D
dwinor
Guest
You don't need mag primers, some people say in really cold weather hunting it helps, I don't know I don't hunt below zero temps. The Winchester WW 209 primer will make the gun go off for you every time. I have been using them since 1975, reloading shotgun shells and now in my CVA Accura V2 and T/C Pro Hunter, I have never had a failure to fire. In any weather I hunted in. I also Use BH 209.
I have been told that in the early days of BH 209 they had trouble with breech plugs and with the size of the flash hole in the BP. They have that all straightened out now. If you purchase a CVA gun and want to shoot BH 209 you need to buy a BH 209 breech plug from CVA or Western Powders, the same people that make BH 209.
I have a T/C Pro Hunter that it will fire any powder I put down it without another breech plug or modifications.
If you use hard to get primers they will be hard to get all the time. WW 209 primers are one of the strongest standard primers that you can buy. They are generally in stock most places you check, even local gun shops. Give them a try, you won't be sorry.
I have been told that in the early days of BH 209 they had trouble with breech plugs and with the size of the flash hole in the BP. They have that all straightened out now. If you purchase a CVA gun and want to shoot BH 209 you need to buy a BH 209 breech plug from CVA or Western Powders, the same people that make BH 209.
I have a T/C Pro Hunter that it will fire any powder I put down it without another breech plug or modifications.
If you use hard to get primers they will be hard to get all the time. WW 209 primers are one of the strongest standard primers that you can buy. They are generally in stock most places you check, even local gun shops. Give them a try, you won't be sorry.
J
JS128
Guest
I asked this same question last year but didn't get any sort of response. I had also thought it was 'necessary' to shoot the mag primers recommended. But like you, I found they were hard to find.
After doing some more research, online and at the range I found you don't 'need' them. With the recommended breech plug and proper head spacing you can use regular 209 primers. I actually found after, proper headspace adjustment, that I had worse groups with the CCI M primers than I did with Winchester W209's. I did a test a couple weeks back with an old breech plug where I shot 100 gr of bh209 and W209 primers and I didn't clean or drill the carbon out. I shot 22 rounds without a misfire before I called it a day.
My experience with this, is that you shouldn't take the bottles instruction as the end all. You need to get out, and find what works best for your gun. Proper tuning of your ml is the fun part as you work up the best load in accuracy and performance. Shooting sessions take a lot longer, but IMO its all part of the commitment to the gun and the hunt. And I've yet to meet a ml shooter who complained about that.
After doing some more research, online and at the range I found you don't 'need' them. With the recommended breech plug and proper head spacing you can use regular 209 primers. I actually found after, proper headspace adjustment, that I had worse groups with the CCI M primers than I did with Winchester W209's. I did a test a couple weeks back with an old breech plug where I shot 100 gr of bh209 and W209 primers and I didn't clean or drill the carbon out. I shot 22 rounds without a misfire before I called it a day.
My experience with this, is that you shouldn't take the bottles instruction as the end all. You need to get out, and find what works best for your gun. Proper tuning of your ml is the fun part as you work up the best load in accuracy and performance. Shooting sessions take a lot longer, but IMO its all part of the commitment to the gun and the hunt. And I've yet to meet a ml shooter who complained about that.
>I asked this same question last
>year but didn't get any
>sort of response. I had
>also thought it was 'necessary'
>to shoot the mag primers
>recommended. But like you, I
>found they were hard to
>find.
>
>After doing some more research, online
>and at the range I
>found you don't 'need' them.
>With the recommended breech plug
>and proper head spacing you
>can use regular 209 primers.
>I actually found after, proper
>headspace adjustment, that I had
>worse groups with the CCI
>M primers than I did
>with Winchester W209's. I did
>a test a couple weeks
>back with an old breech
>plug where I shot 100
>gr of bh209 and W209
>primers and I didn't clean
>or drill the carbon out.
>I shot 22 rounds without
>a misfire before I called
>it a day.
>
>My experience with this, is that
>you shouldn't take the bottles
>instruction as the end all.
>You need to get out,
>and find what works best
>for your gun. Proper tuning
>of your mlI is the
>fun part as you
>work up the best load
>in accuracy and performance. Shooting
>sessions take a lot longer,
>but IMO its all part
>of the commitment to the
>gun and the hunt. And
>I've yet to meet a
>ml shooter who complained about
>that.
Well this is all new news to me... I never heard of tuning a muzzleloader. I guess I'm back to research again. I would love to hear people thoughts on tuning and how/what I'm looking for. I'm a dedicated hunter and decided to lay of the archery hunt a little this year because I wanted to try something new. Never killed a buck with a muzzleloader so I'm excited about trying and tinkering with something new. So just regular shot shell 209 primers will work right? I have heard they are a bit stronger than muzzleloader 209 primers. They are a lot easier to find then the mags which is good if they will work. Thanks for all the use full information thus far.
>year but didn't get any
>sort of response. I had
>also thought it was 'necessary'
>to shoot the mag primers
>recommended. But like you, I
>found they were hard to
>find.
>
>After doing some more research, online
>and at the range I
>found you don't 'need' them.
>With the recommended breech plug
>and proper head spacing you
>can use regular 209 primers.
>I actually found after, proper
>headspace adjustment, that I had
>worse groups with the CCI
>M primers than I did
>with Winchester W209's. I did
>a test a couple weeks
>back with an old breech
>plug where I shot 100
>gr of bh209 and W209
>primers and I didn't clean
>or drill the carbon out.
>I shot 22 rounds without
>a misfire before I called
>it a day.
>
>My experience with this, is that
>you shouldn't take the bottles
>instruction as the end all.
>You need to get out,
>and find what works best
>for your gun. Proper tuning
>of your mlI is the
>fun part as you
>work up the best load
>in accuracy and performance. Shooting
>sessions take a lot longer,
>but IMO its all part
>of the commitment to the
>gun and the hunt. And
>I've yet to meet a
>ml shooter who complained about
>that.
Well this is all new news to me... I never heard of tuning a muzzleloader. I guess I'm back to research again. I would love to hear people thoughts on tuning and how/what I'm looking for. I'm a dedicated hunter and decided to lay of the archery hunt a little this year because I wanted to try something new. Never killed a buck with a muzzleloader so I'm excited about trying and tinkering with something new. So just regular shot shell 209 primers will work right? I have heard they are a bit stronger than muzzleloader 209 primers. They are a lot easier to find then the mags which is good if they will work. Thanks for all the use full information thus far.
J
JS128
Guest
When I said tune I was more referring to the load. I apologize for the lack of distinction, but there are things you can do to the gun itself (ie trigger adjustments, head space adjustment etc) there are a lot of great people on here that I hope chime in. I'm by no means an expert, I just know that I was in a similar boat last year.
Don't shoot the ml primers. The T7 primers and the Remington Kleanbore aren't hot enough, but you can use the Winchester and Federal primers reliably with the blackhorn breechplug from CVA.
Working up a load can be a big investment in both time and money, but my enjoyment has always justified that cost for myself.
Don't shoot the ml primers. The T7 primers and the Remington Kleanbore aren't hot enough, but you can use the Winchester and Federal primers reliably with the blackhorn breechplug from CVA.
Working up a load can be a big investment in both time and money, but my enjoyment has always justified that cost for myself.
>When I said tune I was
>more referring to the load.
>I apologize for the lack
>of distinction, but there are
>things you can do to
>the gun itself (ie trigger
>adjustments, head space adjustment etc)
>there are a lot of
>great people on here that
>I hope chime in. I'm
>by no means an expert,
>I just know that I
>was in a similar boat
>last year.
>
>Don't shoot the ml primers. The
>T7 primers and the Remington
>Kleanbore aren't hot enough, but
>you can use the Winchester
>and Federal primers reliably with
>the blackhorn breechplug from CVA.
>
>
>Working up a load can be
>a big investment in both
>time and money, but my
>enjoyment has always justified that
>cost for myself.
I enjoy working up a load for my rifles and can't imagine this being any different. Just for curiosity. .. what load did you settle on?
>more referring to the load.
>I apologize for the lack
>of distinction, but there are
>things you can do to
>the gun itself (ie trigger
>adjustments, head space adjustment etc)
>there are a lot of
>great people on here that
>I hope chime in. I'm
>by no means an expert,
>I just know that I
>was in a similar boat
>last year.
>
>Don't shoot the ml primers. The
>T7 primers and the Remington
>Kleanbore aren't hot enough, but
>you can use the Winchester
>and Federal primers reliably with
>the blackhorn breechplug from CVA.
>
>
>Working up a load can be
>a big investment in both
>time and money, but my
>enjoyment has always justified that
>cost for myself.
I enjoy working up a load for my rifles and can't imagine this being any different. Just for curiosity. .. what load did you settle on?
J
JS128
Guest
I'm shooting 105gr of bh209, Winchester W209 primers, 250 gr Barnes TEZ out of my Accura V2 for hunting. I love the performance of the Barnes on game and at 100 yds I can consistently put 5 shots in an inch group with good shooting conditions.
But I've also played around with a lot of other powder\primer\projectile combos just trying to get the most accurate load possible for my own satisfaction.
But I've also played around with a lot of other powder\primer\projectile combos just trying to get the most accurate load possible for my own satisfaction.
D
dwinor
Guest
Thumbs up on the 250 grain TEZ Barnes bullet, it also comes in a 290 grain bullet, it will load in guns that some bullets won't. If anyone has not tried them you should, it will decrease your time and expense in developing a load. I just got turned onto them, I shot 3 at the range someone gave me and as soon as I got back home I ordered 30 off the internet. I have shot quite a lot looking for a good load and the TEZ is it, I have heard nothing but good with the terminal ballistics. Good luck everyone.
>Thumbs up on the 250 grain
>TEZ Barnes bullet, it also
>comes in a 290 grain
>bullet, it will load in
>guns that some bullets won't.
> If anyone has not
>tried them you should, it
>will decrease your time and
>expense in developing a load.
> I just got turned
>onto them, I shot 3
>at the range someone gave
>me and as soon as
>I got back home I
>ordered 30 off the internet.
> I have shot quite
>a lot looking for a
>good load and the TEZ
>is it, I have heard
>nothing but good with the
>terminal ballistics. Good luck
>everyone.
Good to know! Cause that's what I got. I got a scope coming which should be here the same day as the breech plug so I'm excited to get out and figure up a load. Muzzy hunt is fast approaching!
>TEZ Barnes bullet, it also
>comes in a 290 grain
>bullet, it will load in
>guns that some bullets won't.
> If anyone has not
>tried them you should, it
>will decrease your time and
>expense in developing a load.
> I just got turned
>onto them, I shot 3
>at the range someone gave
>me and as soon as
>I got back home I
>ordered 30 off the internet.
> I have shot quite
>a lot looking for a
>good load and the TEZ
>is it, I have heard
>nothing but good with the
>terminal ballistics. Good luck
>everyone.
Good to know! Cause that's what I got. I got a scope coming which should be here the same day as the breech plug so I'm excited to get out and figure up a load. Muzzy hunt is fast approaching!
I use 100gr of BH 209 w Win 209 shotgun primers in my TC Omega Z5.That was with the 250 TMZ's. 1" groups@ 100,3"@ 200yrds. Just got TEZ's and will start @ 90 and see what works with that bullet.
Start @ 80 and work up in 5gr loads. See what works. With each gun it can be different,same model.IMHO.
Start @ 80 and work up in 5gr loads. See what works. With each gun it can be different,same model.IMHO.
D
dwinor
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Aug-25-14 AT 08:22PM (MST)[p]31incher If you got a CVA Breach plug get a 1/8 inch drill bit to clean the flash channel (area under the primer) every 3 to 6 shots, It will clean the carbon out and keep you shots more consistent. Take some electrical tape and put it around the shank, enough so you can firmly grip the drill bit. If you ever decide to shoot pellets with your CVA the original Breech plug takes a .116 or a #32 drill bit.
If you got the Western Powders Breech Plug it comes with the proper size drill bit.
When you start shooting the TEZ load 110 grains of BH 209, I have been told the bullet likes to be pushed.
Good luck and good shooting.
If you got the Western Powders Breech Plug it comes with the proper size drill bit.
When you start shooting the TEZ load 110 grains of BH 209, I have been told the bullet likes to be pushed.
Good luck and good shooting.
LAST EDITED ON Aug-28-14 AT 09:17PM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Aug-25-14
>AT 08:22?PM (MST)
>
>31incher If you got a CVA
>Breach plug get a 1/8
>inch drill bit to clean
>the flash channel (area under
>the primer) every 3 to
>6 shots, It will clean
>the carbon out and keep
>you shots more consistent.
>Take some electrical tape and
>put it around the shank,
>enough so you can firmly
>grip the drill bit.
>If you ever decide to
>shoot pellets with your CVA
>the original Breech plug takes
>a .116 or a #32
>drill bit.
>
> If you
>got the Western Powders Breech
>Plug it comes with the
>proper size drill bit.
>
>When you start shooting the TEZ
>load 110 grains of BH
>209, I have been told
>the bullet likes to be
>pushed.
>
>Good luck and good shooting.
Thanks for the tip. I was just looking at the pack of bullets and they are actually the tmz 250 grain ballistic tips. Still a good bullet or what's your thoughts? Just got my scope on it today and the new breech plug yesterday. Excited to go shoot it but probably won't be able to get out tell next weekend.
>AT 08:22?PM (MST)
>
>31incher If you got a CVA
>Breach plug get a 1/8
>inch drill bit to clean
>the flash channel (area under
>the primer) every 3 to
>6 shots, It will clean
>the carbon out and keep
>you shots more consistent.
>Take some electrical tape and
>put it around the shank,
>enough so you can firmly
>grip the drill bit.
>If you ever decide to
>shoot pellets with your CVA
>the original Breech plug takes
>a .116 or a #32
>drill bit.
>
> If you
>got the Western Powders Breech
>Plug it comes with the
>proper size drill bit.
>
>When you start shooting the TEZ
>load 110 grains of BH
>209, I have been told
>the bullet likes to be
>pushed.
>
>Good luck and good shooting.
Thanks for the tip. I was just looking at the pack of bullets and they are actually the tmz 250 grain ballistic tips. Still a good bullet or what's your thoughts? Just got my scope on it today and the new breech plug yesterday. Excited to go shoot it but probably won't be able to get out tell next weekend.
D
dwinor
Guest
The TMZ Bullet is a good bullet, Some people say they are extremely hard to get down some guns. If you feel the TMZ 250 grain is too hard to load, get you some TEZ 250 grain (they also make them and the TMZ in 290 grain). They will be more to your liking I would expect.
D
dwinor
Guest
I have heard some people say the sst does not expand well, I have not shot it or have any experience with it. If you want to try the sst try the Hornady #45202, SST/ML, I tried it in 250 grain with a T/C superglide saboot (yellow). You can get the sabots at LG Outdoors. At 100 yards using 100 grains of BH 209 the groups were clover leaf. Being a Muzzleloading bullet the expansion rates are in the FPS of a Muzzleloader, so I would think expansion would be good. They come in 300 grain also. For accuracy I would highly recommend them, I don't have any experience with terminal ballistics as yet.
>I have heard some people say
>the sst does not expand
>well, I have not shot
>it or have any experience
>with it. If you
>want to try the sst
>try the Hornady #45202, SST/ML,
>I tried it in 250
>grain with a T/C superglide
>saboot (yellow). You can
>get the sabots at LG
>Outdoors. At 100 yards
>using 100 grains of BH
>209 the groups were clover
>leaf. Being a Muzzleloading
>bullet the expansion rates are
>in the FPS of a
>Muzzleloader, so I would think
>expansion would be good.
>They come in 300 grain
>also. For accuracy I
>would highly recommend them, I
>don't have any experience with
>terminal ballistics as yet.
Yeah I bought some for giggles the other day. See how they shoot I guess. I just don't want to waste any of my bh209 because it seems hard to come by. Which brings me to another question... anybody seen some bh209 lately? I have checked all the big stores in slc with no luck
>the sst does not expand
>well, I have not shot
>it or have any experience
>with it. If you
>want to try the sst
>try the Hornady #45202, SST/ML,
>I tried it in 250
>grain with a T/C superglide
>saboot (yellow). You can
>get the sabots at LG
>Outdoors. At 100 yards
>using 100 grains of BH
>209 the groups were clover
>leaf. Being a Muzzleloading
>bullet the expansion rates are
>in the FPS of a
>Muzzleloader, so I would think
>expansion would be good.
>They come in 300 grain
>also. For accuracy I
>would highly recommend them, I
>don't have any experience with
>terminal ballistics as yet.
Yeah I bought some for giggles the other day. See how they shoot I guess. I just don't want to waste any of my bh209 because it seems hard to come by. Which brings me to another question... anybody seen some bh209 lately? I have checked all the big stores in slc with no luck
So i thought i would give you guys a little bit of a update. I got the new breech plug and scope put on and went to the range today. I was shooting 105 grains of blackhorn 209, 250 sst/ 250 grain tmz, with a federal 209a primer. I found out pretty quick both the tmz and sst were very accurate. They were grouping with each other at 100 yards with a little less than one inch groups. I was running a little low on the tmz so I shoot the group below at 200 yards with the sst. Right at 3 inches at 200 yards aand I'm pretty excited about it. Now my question is... would you stick with the sst or try and get some more tmz. The sst are cheaper and shoot just as good as the tmz and are a lot easier to get down the bore. What do you guys think?
http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos2/669320140907_132440(0).jpeg
http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos2/669320140907_132440(0).jpeg
FrontierGander
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,017
without a doubt, get more of the TMZ bullets!
D
dwinor
Guest
I would not use the standard Hornady SST bullets. I would use the Hornady SST/ML bullet. Hornady made them to expand at muzzleloader velocities. I know a lot of people swear by the SST and say they have killed many deer with them. I have also heard some people say that they don't expand well. I don't know what they were shooting for a load or the ballistics of the bullet they were using. In 1984 I used a renegade and a 430 grain maxie hunter, literally no expansion what so ever from that bullet, I also killed a lot of deer, but there was never a blood trail. If I didn't see where the deer dropped I would have never found most of them, I never lost a deer because my shot was always spot on, in the lungs.
You don't want a bullet that will pencil in and out, or not expand at long range. Do yourself a favor and try the SST/ML, It is also the most accurate bullet in my box, in a 1" square I can put 6 SST/ML bullets. Post back and let us know how the load you select does.
You don't want a bullet that will pencil in and out, or not expand at long range. Do yourself a favor and try the SST/ML, It is also the most accurate bullet in my box, in a 1" square I can put 6 SST/ML bullets. Post back and let us know how the load you select does.
So I thought I might give a little update for those still interested. I made it to the range today and I think I have settled on a load for my cva. The group below is a 100 hundred 5 shoot group. Barnes tez with black crush rip sabot. 105 grains of bh 209. Federal 209a primer. the high one is clean bore shoot which always seams to be 3 inches high. I was also struggling with some wind. Which seemed to blow the bullet left to right a little bit.
Here is my 200 yard 3 shoot group. I actually shot 5 but there was 2 that blew a good 6 inches right. Surprising how far the wind would blow it.
Here is my 200 yard 3 shoot group. I actually shot 5 but there was 2 that blew a good 6 inches right. Surprising how far the wind would blow it.
FrontierGander
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,017
I'd say you are all set!
