A little frustrated

bragabit

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-25-14 AT 04:41PM (MST)[p]Last year I converted my Knight DISC .45 muzzleloader to shoot the bare primers so I could could shoot BH209. I was able to get a good load developed with 100gr BH209 and a 300gr Platinum powerbelt. I shot a mid 170 buck in Colorado with good results. The only downside is about every other primer would bulge out in the back and it is hard to get out of bolt.
This summer I decided I would convert it to shoot the Precision Rifle Vari-flame adapters using a large rifle magnum primer. Well after sending my bolt amd breech plug off twice the primers still will not slide in and out of the bolt. I have to take the bolt out to change primers. I like the accuracy and the ignition seems better than with a 209 primer. I am still having some issue getting the primers to fall out of the bolt after being shot. They bulge out similar to the 209 primers.
I have been shooting my sons DISC with the Red DISC all summer. It is easier to load and unload. But, I have had a couple of hangfires. I don't believe the ignition is as reliable as the vari-flame.
So I am stuck less than 2 weeks away from a CO deer hunt. Do I shoot the Variflame system, which ignites better and seems more accurate, but a follow up shot is slower. Or put my red disk breech plug in which is easier to follow up on the a second shot but I feel is less reliable ignition system.
What would you do.
 
Bragabit The first thing I would do is stop shooting the Knight Disk rifle of yours if the primers are bulging out in the back.
Also if you say the Precision Rifle Vari-Flame adapters using a large rifle magnum primer is doing the same thing as the 209 primers I would really be careful using that rifle, something is going on that is very wrong.
Have you called the manufactures of the Precision Rifle Vari-flame adapters to ask them what might be going on.
I hate to ask this but I don't know anything about a knight muzzleloader but is your knight ok to shoot BH 209. I have heard of similar complaints with BH 209 and as it turned out the people having the problem were not suppose to be using BH 209 in their guns.
If I were you just to be on the safe side I would contact Western Powders and ask them if your gun is safe to use BH 209 Powder. Here is the link for you: http://www.blackhorn209.com/contact-us/

I do know that some knights can be converted to a 209 primer but still cannot use BH 209. What you have going on with your gun is very serious I would not take it too lightly. It doesn't make any difference how accurate it is or what you are willing to put up with to shoot it, If BH 209 is the cause you don't want to be around when it goes.
One thing you might try is to use the powder you used before you got BH 209. If everything starts working good you may have your problem solved.

I would still send western powders a note asking them if your gun can shoot BH 209 powder. At least you will know. To me it sounds like it can't. Just my Opinion. Good Luck, if you find out what the problem is post back, I would be very interested in what you find out.
 
Sometimes with those knights you actually have to install a shim into the bolt face to correct the head space on them. I highly doubt knight sells those shims as they more of a tune up for those that want to prevent the bulging, but its something to check into before the season starts.

I'd use what ever is most reliable for you at the moment.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-26-14 AT 08:27AM (MST)[p]I really don't think it is a problem with the BH209. The variflame primers won't come out of the bolt when shot without any powder. It is just a too tight of a fit. I can the dry fire the gun twice on the old primer and it will fall out. Knight reps told me last year that it was common for the 209 primers to bulge out and to try Winchester primers. I was using CCI. They are not much help the last few years. Now that I have it converted to shoot the Variflame I can't go back to bare 209s without a new breech plug. I will do some more shooting this week and see what I can come up with. I have shot the gun for 10+ years in UT with 150 gr of pyrodex pellets with no problem.
 
I am not bashing knight, but if I had to dry fire a gun to get the fired bulged primer to fall out, I would put it in the back of the safe, second shots are few and far between and hard to come by to lose one trying to get the primer to fall out of the gun. If this is an older gun and knight has not come up with a solution other than try another 209 primer, If I wanted to shoot a knight I would go to another model, after I got knight to certify that there was no problem with the Primer bulging in the newer selected model I would also be inclined to ask them if there were any known issues with the selected model.
I was under the impression that the problem with a primer bulging was due to over pressurization of the selected powder or load. Personally in my opinion I would still be Leary of a gun that did this, especially with 2 different types of primers, and happening to two different people with the same gun.
If this were a normal occurrence with knight within their different models I personally would be inclined to change brands.
Again I am not bashing knight just giving my opinion, I would call knight again and ask them if they have found a solution as yet. I still would send Winchester Powders a note if your gun just started doing this when you changed to BH 209 powder, ask them why they think it may be doing it. If you could find no reason or cure for the gun bulging primers, If it were me I would retire it. I have been using Winchester WW 209 primers since 1975 I have never seen a bulged primer. I have loaded shotgun shells Light loads and Magnum barn busters, I have shot the heaviest loads recommended in my CVA Accura V2 and my T/C Pro hunter with Pyrodex Select and Western Powders BH 209. I have never personally seen a bulged primer. With my experience this would bother me.

Best of luck to you.
 
Well I figure I should give a little update as to how my Colorado deer hunt went.
I tinkered with the Vari-flame adapter more but, just couldn't get it to work. If I used a regular LR primer it would eject just fine with no bulging. Problem is the ignition was not reliable. I tried 3 differant primer brands and all had hesitations. problem with this system is Knights firing pin is too big.
So I decided to go back to the factory Breach plug and use the Red Disc. All shots at the range were great easy loading and unloading.
The hunting was tough. I am not sure what the difference was but last year I was seeing 20-25 bucks a day. This year I found 1 group of 5 bucks in 4 days.
I shot the 2nd best buck of the group. The biggest never left the private that morning. The shoit was 70 yards I could only see from the base of his neck up. The 300 gr Platinum powerbelt did its job and the buck dropped right in his track.
He is certainly not what I went to Colorado to hunt, but not bad either.
Funny 4 of the 5 bucks were still in full velvet on Sept.15.
5389010.jpg
 
Nice buck!

Back to your problem with the primers in the Disc Extreme.
Have you checked the size of your flash hole in the breech plug?
If the flash hole has eroded from firing it to the point that it is over about .035 it will allow blowback into the flash channel and to the primer. this makes for difficult removal of the primer as well as in many cases a loss in accuracy. Something to check.
In my Disc Extreme I found out about a guy that had some older breech plugs that were made to accept removeable vent liners. I bought two. I have not idea if he still has any, but they allow for easy and less expensive changing when the flash hole gets big. A fellow on another muzzleloading site converted a TC Omega to the PR VariFlame with the large rifle primers and found that they are much better at not eroding the flash hole than the 209 shotshell primers.
 
sjhgraysage,
Thanks for the input. I had problems with the bare primers from the very begining with a brand new plug. It is the same with or without a powder charge. I believe the problem lies with the size of the firing pin and the hole in the bolt the firing pin comes out of. There is just to big a hole behind the primer to blowback against It is probably 3 times the size of a standard rifle firing pin. I like the way the gin fires with the Vari-flame system. It feels a little more crisp. My gunsmith put the firing pin on his lathe and milled a little tit on the end the size of a regular firing pin and still had the same problem. Without the "tit" on the firing pin, is the same size as a LR primer so it destroys the LR primer with out igniting it. I wish I would have saved my self about $200 and just used the original Red DISC from the beginning.
 

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