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1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel

 
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cannonball
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Jan-11-17, 
08:47 PM (MST)
"1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

I have ordered the above barrel in a 45 cal. X 35" long 15/16" accross the flats. I plan on building a traditional gun. I hear good reports with this combination.

I do not plan on making the bullets, but buying them. Have I made a mistake? where would I get the bullets? Any other suggestions?

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  Table of Contents  

 Subject   Author   Message Date   ID 
 RE: 1 in 18" T...  Fubarracin      Jan-12-17   1 
  RE: 1 in 18" T...  2f350s      Apr-19-17   2 
 RE: 1 in 18" T...  Idahoron      Apr-19-17   3 
  RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      Apr-26-17   4 
   RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      Apr-27-17   5 
   RE: 1 in 18" T...  Idahoron      Apr-28-17   6 
    RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      May-01-17   7 
     RE: 1 in 18" T...  sjhgraysage      May-01-17   8 
      RE: 1 in 18" T...  Idahoron      May-01-17   9 
       RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      May-02-17   10 
        RE: 1 in 18" T...  Idahoron      May-02-17   11 
         RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      May-03-17   12 
          RE: 1 in 18" T...  Idahoron      May-03-17   13 
           RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      May-04-17   14 
            RE: 1 in 18" T...  Idahoron      May-04-17   15 
             RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      May-05-17   16 
              RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      May-06-17   17 
               RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      May-29-17   18 
                RE: 1 in 18" T...  Idahoron      May-30-17   19 
                 RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      May-30-17   20 
                  RE: 1 in 18" T...  Idahoron      May-30-17   21 
                   RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      Jun-01-17   22 
                    RE: 1 in 18" T...  Idahoron      Jun-02-17   23 
                     RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      Jun-02-17   24 
                      RE: 1 in 18" T...  Idahoron      Jun-02-17   25 
                       RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      Jun-02-17   26 
                        RE: 1 in 18" T...  Idahoron      Jun-03-17   27 
                         RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      Jun-16-17   28 
                          RE: 1 in 18" T...  Idahoron      Jun-17-17   29 
                           RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      Jul-13-17   30 
                            RE: 1 in 18" T...  Idahoron      Jul-13-17   31 
                             RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      Jul-13-17   32 
                              RE: 1 in 18" T...  Idahoron      Jul-14-17   33 
                               RE: 1 in 18" T...  2lumpy      Jul-14-17   34 
                                RE: 1 in 18" T...  Idahoron      Jul-15-17   35 
                                 RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      Jul-15-17   36 
                                  RE: 1 in 18" T...  Idahoron      Jul-15-17   37 
                                   RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      Jul-15-17   38 
                                    RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      Jul-15-17   39 
                                     RE: 1 in 18" T...  Idahoron      Jul-15-17   41 
                                    RE: 1 in 18" T...  Idahoron      Jul-15-17   40 
 RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      Jul-17-17   42 
  RE: 1 in 18" T...  54bore      Aug-29-17   43 
   RE: 1 in 18" T...  54bore      Aug-30-17   44 
    RE: 1 in 18" T...  cannonball      Aug-30-17   45 

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Fubarracin
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Jan-12-17, 
11:51 AM (MST)
1. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

No excuses and bullshop both make bullets that should shoot well. I've been toying with a similar idea, let us know how it turns out!

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2f350s
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Apr-19-17, 
07:54 AM (MST)
2. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

I've had great luck with Power-belts in my .50 cal. They are full caliber slugs with a sort of gas check on the bottom and are legal in almost every state. But, check your states hunting regulations to be sure. Power-belt makes them in 225 grains and Midway USA sells them. These type conical bullets shoot good in my tighter twist in-line and likely work for your 1in18".

Best wishes for a great rifle.

2f350s: Hunt hard, hunt ethically.

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Idahoron
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Apr-19-17, 
05:49 PM (MST)
3. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

I have a 32" 1-18 twist. You would probably not do better than a bullet I make. It is a Lyman whitworth bullet. They are paper patched and sized to .451
This is a 5 shot group.

I don't shoot that gun much but that bullet paper patched and sized works pretty well.

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cannonball
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Apr-26-17, 
06:01 PM (MST)
4. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Idahoron,

I ended up with an Oregon 32" barrel, 45 cal., with a 1 in 22 twist. I started with a blank and now I have finally got every thing inleted and shaped and I am getting to the finer sanding stage. Hope to have it done before the summer is over. I plan on putting a Malcom 34" scope on it for longer shooting.

Any detailed suggestions on how to do the paper patch bullets and even any suggestions on my sight selection?

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cannonball
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Apr-27-17, 
08:44 AM (MST)
5. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Idahoron,

Does that mean you sell those paper patched bullets to the public?

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Idahoron
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Apr-28-17, 
08:35 PM (MST)
6. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

I have several video's on paper patching.

This is part one shooting and field cleaning.

https://youtu.be/ibU-5uCuy_I

This is part two full cleaning.

https://youtu.be/Wuai-XGRSnk

Wrapping and sizing bullets.

https://youtu.be/RmARVEFJbr0

I don't like to sell bullets. I have some friends that buy bullets but I would rather teach someone to do it themselves. That way they are in 100% control of their own shooting.

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cannonball
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May-01-17, 
09:38 AM (MST)
7. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Idahoron,

I have never reloaded rifle bullets, except for pouring round balls, and I even gave my shotgun press to my son-in-law. I am to a point in my life I would rather purchase the paper-wrapped bullets if I can find a place to buy them. I would rather spend my time making guns.

When I get to that point on this gun I am making I will be needing slugs. If you would consider selling me some bullets or know of someone who would, it would be very much appreciated. PM me if you may be interested. Thanks

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sjhgraysage
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May-01-17, 
02:44 PM (MST)
8. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Cannonball,
You may find something useful here that you could consider purchasing.

https://www.buffaloarms.com/reloading-supplies/jacketed-lead-copper-coated-bullets/paper-patch-bullets

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Idahoron
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May-01-17, 
09:10 PM (MST)
9. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

You could find a bullet in buffalo arms that is .440 and weighs about 475 grains all you would have to do is wrap the paper on and shoot. Just like a patched round ball. You would need veg fiber .060 thick over powder wads.
I do sell bullets that I make wrap and size at times but I don't like to. They take a long time to make, grade, wrap and size. I charge a dollar a bullet plus shipping. Even at that I don't make anything.
If you want help with patching I would be glad to help. Like I said all you would need to do is buy the bullets and paper from Buffalo arms. Wrapping them is easy.

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cannonball
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May-02-17, 
10:20 AM (MST)
10. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Thanks for the information guys.

Idahoron, Don't you need to size the bullet after wrapping it? I do not have a reloading press. I guess I could buy a cheap one, but as I have said I would rather purchase the finished bullets than make them. It wouldn't be a big deal if the wrapped bullet didn't need to be sized, but if I'm going to the extent of custom making a gun, putting an expensive period scope on it, I want to be able to shoot half-way reasonable at long ranges.

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Idahoron
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May-02-17, 
05:37 PM (MST)
11. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

This is the paper

https://www.thepapermillstore.com/paper-store-24-7-onion-skin-white-paper-8-1-2-x-11-in-9-lb-bond-smooth-500-per-ream.html

This is the template

https://www.buffaloarms.com/45-caliber-paper-patch-template-ppt45

This is the bullet you can order this already made in a carton. I would try this one first. It is .441 diameter. After you wrap two wraps of paper on it will be .449 that should go down fine. The nice thing about this way is you only have 20 bucks or so into a box. If they work great if they don't your not out much.

https://www.buffaloarms.com/441-diameter-450-grain-swaged-paper-patch-pure-lead-cup-base-bullet-box-of-50-ppb441450?___SID=U

Last here is the over powder wad you will need.

https://www.buffaloarms.com/45-caliber-rifle-060-vegetable-fiber-king-wads-bag-of-1000-kin45060vf

I gave you the video how to wrap.
You will not need to size these. All you will need to do is wrap the paper on and shove them down the barrel.
If you have any questions feel free to ask.

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cannonball
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May-03-17, 
02:53 PM (MST)
12. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Thanks Idahoron,

This gives me a starting point so I can fine tune it from here. If a person wants accuracy it is all trial and error when you start talking muzzleloading. I will See what the gun does when I start punching paper. I appreciate the info.

I really don't want to put open sights on it nor do I want to order the scope until I see what kind of groups I am going get. Any suggestion in grouping a non-sighted gun.?

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Idahoron
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May-03-17, 
05:20 PM (MST)
13. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

I absolutely love my peep sights. The reason is I can use my range finder and get the range. Then I set my sight for that yardage. So If I have a 135 yard shot I set the sight and hold dead on. Unless a guy has a scope that has mil dots you will have to hold high and low for different distance.
I don't really know how to test for groups without a sight. That would be very difficult at best.

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cannonball
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May-04-17, 
08:01 AM (MST)
14. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

This period scope looks like and adjusts like the ones used by the snipers in the 1850's. It adjusts just like your peep sight. No hold over, has a six power magnification and five star rating. I don't know anything about other than what I have read. I certainly would like to know someone who has one. My gun is going to be a replica of that era gun, except I am going to dress it up with carvings and wire brass inlays. It will mostly be for target shooting. I might take it out hunting, but not to far from the truck where it could get dented and dinged up. I have other guns for that.

I hope I am not making a mistake. I certainly thought about peep sights.

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Idahoron
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May-04-17, 
08:36 PM (MST)
15. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Has it got target turrets for the elevation? I am changing my peep for every shot. Can that scope be changed from shot to shot and hit the same spot?
I haven't seen these, Sounds cool.

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cannonball
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May-05-17, 
09:39 PM (MST)
16. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

I think, but good question to ask. Thanks

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cannonball
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May-06-17, 
08:26 AM (MST)
17. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

I might mention that I called the company last week to find out some questions I had and the technical people were at the NRA Show. I have not had a chance to call them back. The bloggers say if you don't get the right mounts you will be in trouble. The scope is a "Malcolm" model from Hi-Lux from Leatherwood.

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cannonball
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May-29-17, 
09:54 PM (MST)
18. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Idahoron,

I finally got the bullets and paper you suggested. I backed it up with poly wads. I took my partially finished gun out and shot only five shots at 25 yards with not to much luck with a group. I was priming it with 3 grains of 4F black powder and using 60 grains of BH 209. I got good ignition, but maybe to much pressure on the nipple of this side hammer gun. When shooting, the hammer would recoil to the safety position with the 60 grains of 209 . With the 70 grains of regular black powder it would not do it. I wanted to use the 209, but maybe it is not the thing to do. I wonder if the 3 grains of 4F at the nipple port created that much pressure and a 2F might not create the unwanted pressure at the nipple.

Any suggestions to the nipple pressure? Any suggestions on getting a better group?

Thanks,

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Idahoron
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May-30-17, 
07:54 AM (MST)
19. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

I would use Pyrodex P. I would start out with 70 grains and work up. I personally use 80 grains.
Dueplexing loads is a poor way to do it, and BH209 is well known to not play well with side locks. I know you got good ignition, but If it is cocking the hammer to half ##### and the nipple is new that is WAY too much pressure. That load may have eroded your nipple. That is something to check.

Also I would also use vegetable fiber wads, not poly wads. I would bet that those polly wads can't handle that kind of load. I hate plastic in my barrels.
I want consistency. If you shoot naked bullets you have inconsistency with lead build up. If you shoot sabots or polly wads you have a unknown plastic build up. Every shot changes because the amount of plastic or lead is changing. The whole thought on the paper patch bullet is to keep lead from touching the barrel. and to keep the load consistent.

Are you sizing the bullets after wrapping? if so what size is the sizer?

You said the gun is partially finished just what do you mean? Does it have sights?

I would try pyrodex P 80 grains volume or 64.5 grains by weight. If you're new to this I wold weigh them on a scale. 64.5 grains of pyrodex P.
I had a friend that said his rifle was the worst shooting gun he had ever seen. It was exactly like mine. So we went to the range. He measured up a load of powder and I weighed it. He was 57 actual grains. So I calibrated the measure to throw 64.5 grains. He shot a sub 2" group. His sight worked exactly like mine. and the number of clicks he needed from 100 to 150.

Next Follow the video on loading procedure. Drop the powder then tap the stock to get the powder to go into the snail or bolster which ever one you have.
Next use an over powder card. The wool felt wads might not work well with the hollow base. NEVER I mean NEVER put plastic in the barrel. I had a problem with my 1-18 twist barrel when it cam to hollow base bullets. In my thinking it was the wool felt wads that were allowing the felt to push into the base leaving the bullet unprotected.

Make sure you are using the same amount of pressure to seat the bullets. Make a scribe mark on the ram rod where the load is. Make sure that every load is in the same spot.

Next I would change that nipple. If it is half cocking, the nipple hole must be too large.

Last are you seeing the paper come off the bullet at the end of the barrel?
Which way are you wrapping the paper on? if wrapped on the wrong way it will be hard to get the paper to come off. Again make sure you watch the video to see if your doing it right.

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cannonball
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May-30-17, 
09:36 AM (MST)
20. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Thanks for the information Idahoron. I really don't think it is my make shift sights. I got some information from Johnson1942. He likes plastic wads, freezer paper, and 209 duplexed. The two of you seem to be the experts on this subject. The 209 is out - I just don't want that much pressure. In going back to your video, I may be putting the paper patches on backwards. I was doing it to keep the patches on while they went down the barrel which would keep them on after they left the barrel. Some of them looked as if they were going a little side-weighs at 25 yards. That might haven been my imagination in hind sight. Maybe to small of a powder charge. Also with the con-caved bullet I worry about a dis-figured wad creating a problem. Every gun is different, but I have never had any luck with Pyrodex. Guess I will try the good ol' stand by of Black Powder, putting the patch on in reverse of what I have, get some fiber wads, and increase the load to 80 grains. Thanks again - Will keep you posted of my progress.

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Idahoron
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May-30-17, 
01:52 PM (MST)
21. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

I really don't like the plastic. It is absolutely not needed. Veggy wads will not leave behind residue. I know he likes a single wrap of butcher paper. I don't have a problem with it shooting targets. Where I don't like the idea is carrying extra bullets to do follow up shots. I don't want to have to wrap a bullet as I am trying to get another shot on an animal.
If your paper is not coming off you will see some poor performance. Even to the point of punching paper sideways.
A friend of mine was doing duplex loads because he was getting a lot of hang fires. I talked him into using Pyrodex P and using my cleaning and loading techniques. He does well with it. Pyrodex P is good powder. Swiss real black is very good too. BH209 is not something I want to use. I tested T7 and it was not as accurate as the P was.
The paper needs to be wrapped so when it exits it is unwrapping. It should also be shredded.

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cannonball
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Jun-01-17, 
10:27 PM (MST)
22. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Idahoron,

I will probably take your recommendation on the veggy wads eventually, but I have used sabots and really never had a problem with plastic build up because I add brass brushing the barrel in cleaning. I have been looking for the Swiss Powder, but cannot find where they sell it in Utah. Sorry, but one of my side hammers will not shoot Pyrodex P worth a darn and is a tack driver with black powder. I have also found the substitutes change performance with a temperature change more than BP.

Here are the changes I am going to make: wrap the paper in reverse from what I did before. Make the patches wider (I noticed from your video the paper came up closer to the nose). Clean the bullets to get the sizing oil off. Use black powder.

Hope these changes improve the accuracy. Any other suggestions for changes I can make that may improve accuracy are certainly welcome. I am presently not sizing the papered bullets (they are sized from the supplier you gave me). I do not have a press and I am not going to purchase one unless I think it is imperative.

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Idahoron
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Jun-02-17, 
08:49 AM (MST)
23. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

>Idahoron,
>
>I will probably take your recommendation
>on the veggy wads eventually,
>but I have used sabots
>and really never had a
>problem with plastic build up
>because I add brass brushing
>the barrel in cleaning.
>I have been looking for
>the Swiss Powder, but cannot
>find where they sell it
>in Utah. Sorry, but
>one of my side hammers
>will not shoot Pyrodex P
>worth a darn and is
>a tack driver with black
>powder. I have also
>found the substitutes change performance
>with a temperature change more
>than BP.
>
>Here are the changes I am
>going to make: wrap
>the paper in reverse from
>what I did before.
>Make the patches wider (I
>noticed from your video the
>paper came up closer to
>the nose). Clean the
>bullets to get the sizing
>oil off. Use black
>powder.
>
>Hope these changes improve the accuracy.
> Any other suggestions for
>changes I can make that
>may improve accuracy are certainly
>welcome. I am presently
>not sizing the papered bullets
>(they are sized from the
>supplier you gave me).
>I do not have a
>press and I am not
>going to purchase one unless
>I think it is imperative.
>

I personally have not had trouble of any kind with Pyrodex P but If you have then you have. I trust it but if you don't then that is a good reason not to use it.
If the bullet is the correct size before you wrap then sizing after the wrap is not necessary.

I bought an inline a few years ago from a man that said it would not shoot. I started to clean it and it had plastic in the barrel. I used JB bore paste and polished it with about 700 strokes. I found under the plastic was a layer of lead. It took a very long time to get to bare steel. Once I did the gun shot the paper patched bullets great.
One thing guys don't understand with paper patching is the paper protects the barrel from lead. The paper also protects the bullet from the barrel.

I have seen guys shoot some naked bullets then patched ones in the same range setting. That is something I don't recommend. For a gun to shoot paper patch well it need to be free of plastic and lead.

The only possible fouling a guy should have is powder and that can be cleaned out between shots with windex.

I fully understand that you clean with a brass brush and that is good. but plastic can build up as you are shooting. Even a tiny amount will change how the bullet shoots with the paper. If it leaves a tiny amount every time then the inside of the barrel is always changing.
On hollow base bullets I was using a wool felt over powder wad. I was having trouble with it and I have never had any trouble with the wool felt. A friend of mine was using the Vegetable fiber wad and was shooting great. the only thing I could think of was the wool felt was pushing into the cupped base allowing the fire to make contact with the base of the bullet. A small change can make a big difference.

Also remember that not every bullet will shoot well with paper patch. I have had some that were very much alike but shot well and the other didn't at all.

Like any shooting with any rifle finding the right load can be difficult. My 1-18 twist barrel has shown it likes only one bullet. That is the Lyman Whitworth bullet. It likes it paper patched with an over powder wad or naked with an over powder wad. Some bullets I just knew would be awesome didn't work out.

How hard are yours to push down the barrel without sizing?

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cannonball
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Jun-02-17, 
03:30 PM (MST)
24. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

A little resistance, but not much. I am now going to finish the gun. It is nearly complete, but needs the final finish and metal browned and such. It is going to be a few weeks before I will be shooting it again. I am still not going to order the scope until I get some consistency.

The way the target looked, I really think the patch was stuck to some of the bullets.

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Idahoron
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Jun-02-17, 
05:04 PM (MST)
25. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

That absolutely will ruin the group.

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cannonball
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Jun-02-17, 
08:15 PM (MST)
26. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

I'm sure if the paper hung up it would destroy accuracy.

How much resistance is the optimum amount. If you pointed the gun straight down and slightly tapped on the barrel it would be a little questionable whether it would stay tight against the powder. It probably would, but would be questionable.

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Idahoron
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Jun-03-17, 
08:06 AM (MST)
27. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

They should be tight enough to not slide back out even if they were bounced up and down.

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cannonball
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Jun-16-17, 
08:52 PM (MST)
28. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Idaho,

The gun is finally finished with the exception of the scope. I electrical taped a front sight. The back sight is the tang screw (what I can see of it anyhow). At 30 yards I got a 1" - five shot group using 80 grains of BP, a veg. wad, a .451 300 grain bullet with onion skin double wrapped patch. Four were touching and one was not. I increased the length of the patch so it went on a little past the curvature of the bullet and wrapped it backwards from what I was doing. Something or all made the difference. I am at a point in my life that one sight or the other is in focus and the other is not. A scope will help that.

Anyhow, it seems to be coming together and I feel comfortable enough to order the 32" Hi-Lux Malcom scope. I appreciate your help.

One thing that helped this beginner was the beginning end was hard for me to get tight. I remembered the grade school days and crepe paper, scissors, and curling the ends. I did the same with the patch. It curled up in place and the wrapped beautifully.

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Idahoron
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Jun-17-17, 
07:29 AM (MST)
29. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Good Job glad I could help.

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cannonball
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Jul-13-17, 
12:15 PM (MST)
30. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Idahoron,

I have been shooting paper patched bullets in the gun I just finished (45 Cal. ML with the Malcolm scope 1 in 20 twist). This has been a real learning curve. I started with 80 grains of 2F black powder and the grouping was only fair and then went to Pyrodex P which I already had and the groups got worse. In finishing up I was ready to go home defeated, but decided to shoot a few shots using 90 grains of black powder and after super cleaning after each shot, the holes touched at 100 yards.

My question is this, are the spent paper patches suppose to be in tact because they are not? I am surprised that going up to 90 grains made that much difference. And the last question does your guns require SUPER cleaning between shots, which includes brass brushing the bore to get a tight group?

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Idahoron
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Jul-13-17, 
02:00 PM (MST)
31. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

No the paper is supposed to come out like confetti all torn up. Barrels have their own sweet spot. Moving up or down with powder charges will have impacts on groups both good and bad. Sounds like your coming along with it.

I don't have to "deep clean" between shots. Actually on rifles I find the load that seems to be doing the best. Then I shoot that load as many times as I can before the group blows out. I can shoot normally 5 shots before the group is blown out. If it is dry vs humid will make a difference how many shots I can shoot before it blows out.

What bullet are you shooting in that gun? Also are you using a over powder wad, veggy wad?

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cannonball
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Jul-13-17, 
09:31 PM (MST)
32. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

400 grain .441 buffalo bullet and the veggy wad. The rifling's on the Oregon Barrel are very shallow. Before I shoot the first time I put a clean cloth down the barrel to make sure it is dry and that shot joins the group with no visible group variation that seem inevitable with most ML'ers.

I hate the dirty mess with BP, but at this point Pyrodex P just ain't cutting it. Maybe with 90 Grains it will pull it in, but with 80 grains of Pyro.P the group is terrible.

At this point the Malcom scope seems fine except I can see I am going to have to use lock-tight on all of the screws.

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Idahoron
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Jul-14-17, 
08:14 AM (MST)
33. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

400 grains is a bit on the short side but it sounds like your on the right track. Keep us posted.

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2lumpy
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Jul-14-17, 
11:27 PM (MST)
34. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Idahoron, did I understand you correctly, with Pyrodex P, you are generally getting 4 or 5 shots before you need to clean your barrel?

Thanks
DC

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Idahoron
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Jul-15-17, 
07:27 AM (MST)
35. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Yes, for my rifles I can get up to 4 or 5 shots before the accuracy at 100 yards drops off. Like I said it some of it depends on environmental factors.
That is part of my load development. Testing for how many times I can follow up without cleaning.

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cannonball
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Jul-15-17, 
11:01 AM (MST)
36. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Idahoron,

I went and shot the gun again and got a 2"inch group, except I had a couple of flyers. One could have been the first shot. There were so many people at the range I didn't look until I had completed shooting. The muzzle speed was chronograph at 1345 FPS with 90 grains of Bpowder. 400 grain bullet. I forgot I had the twist changed to 1 in 24 on the Oregon Barrel. I cleaned thoroughly after every shot.

Do you have many flyers with paper patched bullets. A couple of the Buffalo bullets went down easier than I would have liked. Either their bullets were inconsistent or my patching job needs help. That may have contributed to the flyers.

I wonder, if maybe I should not clean as good as I am in between shots.

The Greenhill ballistic theory show that I may need to use a shorter bullet. Any thoughts?

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Idahoron
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Jul-15-17, 
11:54 AM (MST)
37. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Cleaning is always good. You haven't found your load yet but you are close 2" groups at 100 with peep sights is in my book awesome! A couple flyers is hard to tell from what your saying.

Buffalo arms bullets are very uniform and are VERY close in weight. They are very, very well made bullets as far as I have seen. I have two boxes of them and I weighed each one and I measured them. They are about as perfect as a bullet gets from a company.

Your 1-24 twist should handle much longer bullets than those. There is no danger that the 400 gr is too long. They might be actually a little on the short side. But in reality if they are in that 2" range your close.

The couple loading easier could be a number of things. Consistency in wrapping loading, or even cleaning.

The flyers could even be the way your throwing your charges. I told a guy to use 80 gr of pyrodex P with his load. It was not working and I knew he had the same barrels same over powder wads everything. His sight settings should have been close to mine but he was hitting low. I asked him to actually weigh a charge. I tap and tap and tap the sides of my measure as I am pouring. I get 64.5 actual weighed grains. He was at 56 or 57. After we adjusted his measure his gun was right on with mine. Another thing that will cause flyers is nipple wear. I have seen that dozens of times. Depending on the nipples your using a nipple can be washed out in as little as a dozen shots. When I go into the new hunting season I practice with the nipple I hunted with last year. Before I go hunting I change to a new nipple.


There is a lot of factors that are at play with loads. Reducing variables is the key. With paper patched bullets the lead is protected from the barrel and fire. The barrels is protected from the lead. Those are unknown, and changing variables. Reducing them helps accuracy. Weigh your 90 gr charge on a scale. What ever it weighs use that number and weigh up when you shoot to eliminate another variable.

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cannonball
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Jul-15-17, 
02:01 PM (MST)
38. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

The 32" Malcom 6 power scope is very clear and I am glad I purchased it. Now I have tightened every thing down, so I don't think that is my problem. I will also try the 450 gr. bullet. I would like to see what Pyrodex P. will do with more powder.

Single wrap butcher paper may be an option.

This is the fun of Black Powder shooting. Finding the right load, a bellow of smoke and a hearty, hi-ho silver. It is sure time consuming though. This patched bullet stuff is all new to me and I do appreciate your information.

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cannonball
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Jul-15-17, 
02:05 PM (MST)
39. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Idaho,

This is an after thought, but would file lightly roughing the paper patch help where it gives more resistance.

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Idahoron
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Jul-15-17, 
03:27 PM (MST)
41. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

>Idaho,
>
>This is an after thought, but
>would file lightly roughing the
>paper patch help where it
>gives more resistance.

It is possible but knurling the bullet could also make the patch stick to the bullet. It is something to test but in my rifle I don't need it.

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Idahoron
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Jul-15-17, 
03:26 PM (MST)
40. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

I honestly have had very good luck with Pyrodex P. The actual weight on a scale is 64.5 grains but my measure reads 80. Your barrel is different than mine both in length and maybe even the bore. So I would look at my recommendations as just a place to start testing. I have heard a lot of very good things about the single wrap method. I have not tried it.

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cannonball
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Jul-17-17, 
11:36 AM (MST)
42. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Like everyone the more information with shooting a ML a person can glean from others, the more they find to help them. ML'ing is certainly an art. I have appreciated all of the help.

Here is the latest on my last time to the range. I have not been able to get a decent group with this last gun I made. I have been shooting double wrap onion skin paper with a fiber wad and getting a fair group, but getting flyers. This time I went with three targets and three loads per target.

The first try was to use BP, but exclude the wad. That opened the group up to a 4" group.
Next was to use BP, single wrap freezer wrap paper, straight cut, slick side out and to my amazement I got a 3/4" group. I figured I was there.
Next I shot Pyrodex P with double wrap paper patch and didn't even hit the target. I really don't know why, but I just stopped with that.
So now I went back to to BP, with the single freezer wrap and placed two more shots on the blank target. If you overlay the two targets where freezer wrap was used it would show a five shot 1" group.
To you paper-patch'ers don't overlook this method. I think I am there, but I am still going to try and figure my problems with the double patch method. I am not doing something right for sure.

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54bore
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Aug-29-17, 
11:42 PM (MST)
43. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

Sounds like you got her dialed in with that freezer paper there cannonball! Maybe drill a hole at the powder chamber to help vent, if that doesn't work drill 2 holes

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54bore
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Aug-30-17, 
09:09 AM (MST)
44. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

I forgot to ad, In that 1:18" Twist you will probably need a bullet that is 1.898 long and weighs about 712.3 Grains, should put you spot on! 👍🏻

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cannonball
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Aug-30-17, 
09:45 PM (MST)
45. "RE: 1 in 18" Twist Oregon Muzzleloader Barrel"

54bore, sorry for misleading you, but I decided to go with a 24" twist because I didn't want to shoot the large bullet. It might have been a mistake, but I will have to live with it now. The latest is a 3" group at 200 yards early in the morning with no wind. Later on in the heat of the day I cannot get that close, but I have not tried the middle of the day with increasing the powder to 80 grains.

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