Questions About .540 White G Series

2lumpy

2lumpy

Long Time Member
Messages
7,989
I have purchased a White .540 G Series that is spotless. Synthetic shock, black barrel, the gun is like new, inside and out.

I've read a number of discussion here on the Muzzle Loader forum and I'm very excited feel very fortunate to have this rifle. There has been a lot written by folks that own Whites, both here and on other web sites. You are all very passion about them. However............ almost everything I have read or can find to read has been on the .45s and .50s and scare little on the .54

I would really like to visit with anyone that might have any information regarding powder, bullets, load configurations and range experiences.

I've learned of the issues regarding the conical bullet, the lightly cut riflings, which always the bullet to move off the powder, if care is not taken.

I own two of White's custom made Green River Rifle Works rifles, purchased back in the 1970s, a Hawken .50 and a Kentucky .45 flintlock, both shoot "lights out" and have been the heart and soul of my gun case. :) but this is my first non-traditional, made by White, so I've got to start from the beginning with this ,540 G Series.

I sure would enjoy hearing from anyone that has some first hand knowledge on this particular White rifle.

Thanks a lot.

DC
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-17 AT 06:17AM (MST)[p]I have a g series Bison 540 it shoots the 535 no excuses amazingly with 70 grains volume 777 ff second sweet spot is 90 grains the last owner shot sabots through it but I'm not sure of results. I also hand cast my own bullets at 524 grains and they will shoot Prarie dogs out to 100 yards but they are not as accurate as the 535 no excuses. If your worried about the bullet slipping off the powder you can knurl it between 2 files that will hold it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it won't come off the powder without. Mine will throw a first shot flyer without either a fowling shot like doc recommends or you can swab with a patch with lock Eze dry lube to fowl the bore. Also I think it should be a Myrtle wood stock with black or green texture paint making it look synthetic.
 
Thank you for your assistance Fubarracin. I will try the 535 no excuses with the 777. It could very well be Mytle wood, the black textured finish is in such good condition I hadn't looked that closely. There is a tiny blown/tan color on a spot directly behind the threaded firing pine plug, so I'll bet your right.

Thanks again.

Anyone else have any other G Series .540 experiences they would be willing to share would be much appreciated.

DC
 
If it is the Myrtle wood stock you may want to reinforce the wrist of the stock with a hardwood dowel epoxied into the center of the wrist it was a weak point for those stocks. There is a write up on the process on the other site I told you about.
 
Anybody know if 'NO EXCUSES" are back in Business?







My Signature is a Short Clip of NVB & His Coal Roller!
"We Better Get out of the F'N Way cuzz Ole NVB is Coming to MF'N Town"!
 
I think I'm about to find out BC. I'll let you know if I get an e-mail back from Mt Pleasant.

DC
 
>Bought from them in January, when
>we're they out of business?
>

Guess I Shouldn't Have said 'Out of Business'!

Not Sure What was going on?

But about a year & a Half ago or so the No-Excuses kinda Disappeared off the Shelves of Sporting Goods Stores around here!

There was Hear/Say that they wasn't being made anymore at the time?

I never did find out for sure what was going on?












My Signature is a Short Clip of NVB & His Coal Roller!
"We Better Get out of the F'N Way cuzz Ole NVB is Coming to MF'N Town"!
 
Just Called the Local Sports Shops in Vernal!

Nobody Has any of the NO EXCUSES!

Doesn't Mean they're Not Being Made!

Welcome to the Basin Where You Can't Find SQUAT!







My Signature is a Short Clip of NVB & His Coal Roller!
"We Better Get out of the F'N Way cuzz Ole NVB is Coming to MF'N Town"!
 
2Lumpy,
Doc White is still around and tinkering in muzzleloaders again. If you wanted to, I bet you could make contact with him and he should be able to tell you more than you want to know about getting the .54 to shoot.
If you can't find any contact info, let me know and I'll see what I can dig up for you.
 
He's Never Quit Tinkering with them!:D







My Signature is a Short Clip of NVB & His Coal Roller!
"We Better Get out of the F'N Way cuzz Ole NVB is Coming to MF'N Town"!
 
That would be outstanding sjhgraysage. I've spent quite a little time over the last week searching the Internet for the G Series .540 Bison model and either I'm a poor searcher or there isn't much out there. I've found volumes on other models and other bore sizes but not the .540

I would appreciate any thing, from for anyone, including Doc White. I've never been one to want to "pioneer" where others have already been. :)

Thanks
DC
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-17 AT 08:51PM (MST)[p]bobcat, do you have a warm relationship with Mr. White? Until recently I didn't realize that my Green River Rifle Works barrels where made by him. I knew they were manufactured in Roosevelt or Vernal but did not know who own the company. I had alway thought the White In-Line muzzleloader made by Doc White was an entirely different company.

When I first got into black powder hunting, in the 1970's, the GRRW barrels where the best you could buy, anywhere in the nation. At least us Western boys always claimed they were. Both of mine shoot a patch round ball very accurately, out to 100 yards.

DC
 
Thank you sjhgraysage. I will get ask him, if he responds beyond suggesting I read the WhiteMuzzleloader web pages, I will share his answers.

DC
 
bobcat, I received a quick response from the folks that produce the No Excuses products. They told me they retail them through Jorgenson's Honda, here in Richfield. So.... as others have said, they are lively and well. Good to know.

DC
 
>bobcat, I received a quick response
>from the folks that produce
>the No Excuses products.
>They told me they retail
>them through Jorgenson's Honda, here
>in Richfield. So.... as
>others have said, they are
>lively and well. Good
>to know.
>
>DC

Good to know!

Just Can't Figure out Why Local Sports Stores don't Sell them anymore?

The Guys I Talked to at the Stores had no Rhyme or Reason Why?

The NO EXCUSES Shoot Well in Whites & in the Original Remington's!

They Talked about making some 600 Grain Bullets,Wished they would of!










My Signature is a Short Clip of NVB & His Coal Roller!
"We Better Get out of the F'N Way cuzz Ole NVB is Coming to MF'N Town"!
 
I Know Doc White Made some Conical's for the 54 Caliber as Heavy as 750 Grains!

I Shoot Doc White 600 Grain Power Punch Bullets in my Early 50 Caliber Remington Inline!

You wanna See Damage?











My Signature is a Short Clip of NVB & His Coal Roller!
"We Better Get out of the F'N Way cuzz Ole NVB is Coming to MF'N Town"!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-17 AT 09:14PM (MST)[p]I suspect they would bc, blowing a brick through an elk would leave a hole you could "throw a cat through". ;-)

Regarding Doc White's and or No Excuses bullets in retail outlets and 750, I suspect it's consumer demand. I went over to Jorgenson's this afternoon to see if they had any .540. They had four or five boxes of .45 and .50 but no .540s at all. Why? I would guess, no one ever asks for .540s so they never order any, even though No Excuses still produces them.

DC
 
Received an e-mail for Mr. Doc White this evening. He said fewer than 1,000 G Series .540 Bisons were produced and no one, to his knowledge. was was making .540 bullets at this time. (No Excuses has a .540 but I don't know if it is built to White's original spec.)

Mr. White said to try 300+ grain sabots or order a mold from Mountain Molds, Pocatello, Idaho. http://www.mountainmolds.com/ Further, he said do not use over 150 grains of power, recommended less than 120 grains.

Again, others with the White G Series .540 Bison please don't hesitate sharing your loads and shooting experiences.

Thanks to those who have offered information and PM'd me with help.

DC
 
2L
Looks like Bull Shop Bullets has a .54 bullet available at 420 grains and diameter could be specified at from .538 to .544.
I would think that would make a decent deer bullet?
I have some Hornady Great Plains bullets for .54 muzzleloader, and I think they may still make those.
Also I would at least try shooting with a wool felt wad between the powder and bullet, as well as with out a wad.

I have both lubed and dry .54 wool wads and some 1/8" thick paper wads from Circle Fly. I would be willing to send you some samples if you would like to try them.
 
I Do Believe for the 54 White they normally like the .539!

Heavy Conicals are a Pain in the Ass to Locate!

I know first hand!







My Signature is a Short Clip of NVB & His Coal Roller!
"We Better Get out of the F'N Way cuzz Ole NVB is Coming to MF'N Town"!
 
Thanks sage but I have a basic question,

I thought one of the reasons the Whites were so accurate was their slightly oversized bore that allow a soft conical bullet to slide down without distortion, and White used a soft lead that expanded at the powder ignition to make a tight seal against the White's shallow cut riflings. Thus, making it unusually, "consistently" accurate, out to ranges beyond 200/300 yards.

If your using non-White bullets, be it No Excuses or otherwise, are you giving up the easy, smooth loading and/or some accuracy. Is the original White bullet that important to the over all White "system"?

Did White ever recommend wads with their bullets?

Just want to make this work but now have more questions than before.


DC
 
This from White's web page:

"White super-slug & powerpunch bullets were doc-designed to work in older white rifles and in the newer white m97, m98 and the thunderbolt. They were available for all .410, .451, .504, and .540 caliber rifles. They are solid ?enhanced? lead bullets, with deep channelures to hold lots of doc?s special blue muzzleloading lubricant, a generous flat-nosed meplat to promote rapid expansion in game, and a slight boat-tail so they load easy and fly faster. These great bullets look good, so you know they shoot good."

.540- AVAILABLE SIZED AND LUBED IN 430 GRAINS ONLY. THESE BULLETS ARE SIZED TO 539

DC
 
2L
There is good information to be had here and a great place to ask "White Muzzleloader" questions.

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=63

Wads: (IMHO) the idea is to protect the base of the bullet from the hot gases from the burning powder. Some muzzleloaders shoot better using a wad of some kind between the bullet and the powder and some don't. The only way to know for sure is to test it. Idahoron uses a light felt wad with a bit of lube on it, when he shoots his paper patched bullets in his Hotrod muzzleloaders.

No Excuses and Bull Shop will supply soft lead bullets for muzzleloading, the thing to get right is the correct diameter of bullet for your particular bore. If Doc White suggested .539 diameter for his .54 caliber muzzys that is where I would start. Compared to some of the sabots and Powerbelts, the cast full bore bullets seem like a bargain in price for experimenting.
 
Hey Lumpy!

I've Toyed with the Heavy Conicals Quite a bit!

And I Would recommend a Wonder Wad between the Powder & The Bullet!






My Signature is a Short Clip of NVB & His Coal Roller!
"We Better Get out of the F'N Way cuzz Ole NVB is Coming to MF'N Town"!
 
GreySage, I really appreciate your posting my inquiry out on the Modern Muzzleloader forum. I did read the responses. They were informative in and helpful. Thanks you.

bobcat, I have a question, in as much as my reason for looking into the White originally was because of marley posting those images of that sheet of metal at 400 yards with his White. Of course he's not shooting a .54 either.

I'm not concerned or that interested in shooting 400 yards with a muzzleloader, but out to 250 is a pretty interesting distance, with a scoped muzzleloader. Whites, with their reputation for accuracy are worth looking into, I think. So...... how much drop do you think a .539 in a 300 to 400 grain conical is going to drop, if I use between 70 to 80 grains of 2f or pyrodex powder. All reports are a smaller charge generates more accuracy but I know a slower bullet is going to drop a lot more too, so I'm thinking pushing a load that slow is going to be head down pretty big time, at 250 yards.

I guess it's time I just take out the LeadSled and put some rounds down field.

Thanks everybody, it has been very helpful.

DC
 
Hey Lumpy!

I Have Never Shot a Conical that Light in a .54!

This Is Approx:

With 535 Conicals sited in at 100 Yards they Will be about 17 inches Low at 175 Yards!

There's Better Powder out there!

I Would Shoot ONLY BH 209! (Until Something Better Shows up!)

I Spent Over 800.00 Summer before Last with 5 Different SmokePoles Dialing them in!

BH 209 My Friend is the Powder!

My Original/Early Remington Inline is NOT a Long Range Gun Shooting the Doc White 600 Grain Conicals!

But You Ought To See what'll do to a Buck!:D






My Signature is a Short Clip of NVB & His Coal Roller!
"We Better Get out of the F'N Way cuzz Ole NVB is Coming to MF'N Town"!
 
One More thing Lumpy!

I'd Try Borrowing a couple of the NO EXCUSE 535 Bullets & See How they Load?

If they're not too Tight or Not Too Loose!(About Right?)

I'd be on the Lookout for some if they Load Decent!

I'd Use a Wonder Wad!

Start out with 90 Grains of BH 209 Powder & Work up a Bit Experimenting with 10 Grain Increments,This Ssshhiitt is Hot,DO NOT START OUT WITH 150 GRAINS OF THIS POWDER!

Whites Like Heavy Conicals & PISS on SABOTS!(People are gonna tell you this because Conicals are hard to Locate!)

One Thing to Think about! (VERY IMPORTANT!)

Sometimes the Breech Plug needs to be changed to Shoot the BH 209 Powder,Might be an Issue on a White?
















w









My Signature is a Short Clip of NVB & His Coal Roller!
"We Better Get out of the F'N Way cuzz Ole NVB is Coming to MF'N Town"!
 
"Sometimes the Breech Plug needs to be changed to Shoot the BH 209 Powder,Might be an Issue on a White?"

bc, I have 209 now, use it in the Knight but this old .54 White has the #11 nipple/breach plug. I don't think I'm going to try to find one that will got in it, that will take the 209 primers. Don't want to mess with it, in this older ML.

I could be wrong but I think the speed of the conical is the only thing that will change the drop on these loads. A 300 grain bullet drops at the same rate as a 535 as I understand the physics. So, accuracy to 250 yds is what I'm going to be focusing on. Soft lead, so think I'll start out with a No Excuse conical in a 535 grain and work from 70 grains of 2f up to 90 and see how the accuracy holds at 250 yds. I know I'll be holding over big time, but with a scope I think it might be manageable. If not, I'll sell the White. I'm not going to spend another $200 buying different kinds of conicals, to find one that will work. I've been down that road too many times already with these ML's.

Ya, I used to mold round balls back in the teepee and tomahawk days but I'm over it. I just want to kill deer now. I'll leave the lead pots to the traditionalists. :)

Thanks for your suggestions, I can tell you've shot a few ramrods! :)

DC
 
>"Sometimes the Breech Plug needs to
>be changed to Shoot the
>BH 209 Powder,Might be an
>Issue on a White?"
>
>bc, I have 209 now, use
>it in the Knight but
>this old .54 White has
>the #11 nipple/breach plug.
>I don't think I'm going
>to try to find one
>that will got in it,
>that will take the 209
>primers. Don't want to
>mess with it, in this
>older ML.
>
>I could be wrong but I
>think the speed of the
>conical is the only thing
>that will change the drop
>on these loads. A
>300 grain bullet drops at
>the same rate as a
>535 as I understand the
>physics. So, accuracy to
>250 yds is what I'm
>going to be focusing on.
> Soft lead, so think
>I'll start out with a
>No Excuse conical in a
>535 grain and work from
>70 grains of 2f up
>to 90 and see how
>the accuracy holds at 250
>yds. I know I'll
>be holding over big time,
>but with a scope I
>think it might be manageable.
> If not, I'll sell
>the White. I'm not
>going to spend another $200
> buying different kinds of
>conicals, to find one that
>will work. I've been
>down that road too many
>times already with these ML's.
>
>
>Ya, I used to mold round
>balls back in the teepee
>and tomahawk days but I'm
>over it. I just
>want to kill deer now.
> I'll leave the lead
>pots to the traditionalists.
>:)
>
>Thanks for your suggestions, I can
>tell you've shot a few
>ramrods! :)
>
>DC

Never Really Shot any RamRods Lumpy!

But I Have been known to Throw some Lead!:D

600 Grains at a Time!:D










My Signature is a Short Clip of NVB & His Coal Roller!
"We Better Get out of the F'N Way cuzz Ole NVB is Coming to MF'N Town"!
 
:) I have, and seen others. Oh, it's spectacular! And if you think a 600 pushes back, you should feel the push from a metal ramrod.

When you put two or three hundred modern day ML'ers in a meadow and add a few jugs of ole "Mont Swasey's " apricot brandy to the mix, the banjos and fiddles are not the only thing singing.

Those were the days of Watt, Radmaul, Robertson, Gleave, Rucksacker, Okerland, and Peterson.

I could tell you stories bc. :D

DC
 
>http://parker-productions-llc.mysho...nter/products/54-cal-580gr-traditional-hunter
>
>Those sure look like the old
>White conical bc. I
>think I'll order a box.
> At a $1.69 a
>shot, they're darn near giving
>them away. ;-)
>
>Thanks for rutting these out for
>me JB!
>
>DC


Well Lumpy!

In Today's Modern Age of SmokePoles You can Toast some Money down the Barrel!

2 Summers ago I Blowed 800.00+ worth of Smoke & Lead out the Barrels!:D









My Signature is a Short Clip of NVB & His Coal Roller!
"We Better Get out of the F'N Way cuzz Ole NVB is Coming to MF'N Town"!
 
I have not doubt bc, I didn't do nearly $800 but I spend well over $200 last year sighting two old muzzleloaders and I'm still not happy with the results. It's nuts.

DC
 
Don't shoot bh209 out of your white! For one they are designed for a 11 cap for a reason and if converted to 209 primers the pressure from the bh209 will blow the primer back out and stick it in your face! It was not meant or designed for the plunger guns.
 
Thanks Fubarracin, I wasn't ever planning to, but it never hurts to remind folks about these older muzzleloaders and there limitations. One can never be too safe.

DC
 
Very good I seen an earlier post advising it was the only powder to use didn't want to see anyone get hurt. I used it in a plunger gun that was supposed to be bh209 approved and have the scar to prove it's still a bad idea.
 
Lumpy,

Talked to several people who duplex a shot load of 209. I may try that. I have a frizzen charger that will dump a small amount of B powder in.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-17 AT 08:45PM (MST)[p]Thanks Mallard, here is a lot of data in that article. I would Doc White spent a lot of time proving up those charts.

Good stuff. Thanks again.

Cannonball, let's get some B and G and you can explain the 209 to me. Sorry I missed your post earlier, I was out in Nevada with the boys, chasing trout. ;-) Good times.

DC
 
We're (No Excuses) alive and going stronger than ever in Pleasant View (North Ogden) Utah. New bullet weights coming out in the next month or so. Check us out on Facebook and the web. Several retailers have/do carry us. It's getting hard to find the purchasing agent in each of the small (non-franchised) shops. I'll try harder!
 

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