Barnes bullet guestions

buckhorn · Jun 11, 2017

I just bought a pack of Barnes Spitfire MZ and shot a five shot group and they seemed pretty accurate. After reading the pamphlet in the pack I found they recommend using the aligner tool for loading. Is that really necessary?
Also what is the difference between the MZ the TMZ and the T-EZ?
Thanks

Blank · Jun 12, 2017

LAST EDITED ON Jun-12-17 AT 04:08PM (MST)[p]MZ Expander has a huge hollow point, the EZ is tapered and has smaller hollow point to be more aerodynamic, and the TMZ has the polymer tip to give a true spitzer profile, really improve ballistics and help to expand the tip.

I use my regular ram rod for both the MZ and EZ, but do use the Barnes tool on my jag for the 250 and 290 gr. TMZ. I think it does align them a little better.

Edit: If you load the PowerBelt Aero Tip with plastic insert, it seems to load them without the bullet sticking in the stock ramrod too.

cannonball · Jun 12, 2017

I used those for a while and purchased the aligning jag, but they were so cottonpickin' hard to load in my gun. They did give me a very slightly closer group, but not enough to fight loading them. I now use a Hornady XTG with a ribbed sabot. A lot cheaper, easier to load, and very accurate. Last year with one shot at 175 yards my grandson got his first deer with my Omega.

buckhorn · Jun 13, 2017

I went ahead and got the aligner tools for the MZ and EZ and they definitely seem to feel better pushing it down but the MZ is really tight unless I clean between each shot. Using Blackhorn powder. Next time out I'm going to give the EZ a try and see if I can get a few shots between cleaning. Does anyone have experience with how these bullets work on the game?

Shadow · Jun 13, 2017

I use an aligner on my starter for the MZ but not on the ramrod. The MZ is tight loading on some guns with a tighter bore. I shoot Winchesters and they load great but I know Thompson hates the MZ. Try the EZ, they load easier. Far as effectiveness, I've only used the Expanders but they perform beautifully and are very accurate. Expensive but I won't shoot anything else.

buckhorn · Jun 13, 2017

When you say expanders do you mean that particular expander bullet or the Barnes expander line including the T-EZ the MZ and TMZ?
Thanks

Shadow · Jun 13, 2017

Expander MZ is the one I use. I guess I didn't realize they call the TMZ and EZ Expanders as well? I've never used either of those but am told the EZ is a lot easier to load in guns with a tighter bore.

buckhorn · Jun 24, 2017

Thanks for the replies. I have been shooting a lot and I am doing pretty well with the Barnes TEZ. 250gr. I have a nine power scope I'm using for practice and today I shot about 20 rounds without cleaning and kept a 2 1/2 inch group at 140 yards. i'm shooting the older model Remington 700 50 caliber. I went from 90 to 105 grains of Blackhorn in five grain increments but the group stay the same just rise up with more powder. Next time out I will move that to further distance and make sure I'm still grouping within a Killzone and then will have to put on my peeps sites for hunting in Nevada. For sites I bought the Lyman globe for the front and for the rear I bought a Williams FP with target knobs. The inserts that came with the lyman globe don't seem like they will do the job so I need to get some fine cross hair inserts. Is there somewhere I can buy them individually or will I need to buy a whole set just to get one crosshair insert?

oilcan · Jun 24, 2017

buckhorn,
As far as I know you have to buy the set. I ordered mine from Lee Shaver for $20.
I am running the same front sight I went to install the ramp this morning and the screw they sent is to small it only catches about 2 threads. I'm going to call Monday and see if I can get a longer one.

buckhorn · Jun 24, 2017

I'm going to use my original ramp on the front and give it a try even though it is 1/4 of an inch tall to the bottom of the dovetail I took it off while sighting in and I did notice that the factory screws seem short so maybe they're intended to only catch a couple of threads. I guess use Loctite and don't over tighten. My globe for the front I got the .404 high so I'm hoping with my original ramp it won't be too high especially with the adjustable FP rear site.I have still have more time to prepare and than you do oilcan since my Nevada hunt doesn't start until November 10. Unless I draw the muzzleloader elk hunt I'm applied for in Idaho that starts September 24. Slim Odds to draw that though.

utarchery · Jun 25, 2017

In my old gun I chose the TEZ because the were easier to load than the others. they perform well, I shot a deer at 175 yards and it was dead in its tracks

buckhorn · Jun 25, 2017

utarchery
That is good to hear that the TEZ are deadly on game. I shot some more rounds again today and I thought I did pretty good but the Point of impact were straight in line but rose up about 11 inches over the five shot group at 300 yards. I have pictures of my target but can't figure out how to load them up to show you guys. Was wondering if this rise could be due to heating of the gun and the air getting warmer. The first shot was just at sunrise and about 60? and by the time I got the fifth shot off it was probably more like 70? and the barrel was getting pretty warm by then. Also I did not clean between shots. I really need to learn how to post pics off my phone onto these topics.

utarchery · Jun 25, 2017

it could be a number of factors. I would say it's more cleaning than anything unless you are using blackhorn 209. When I was shooting them I used two pellets of triple seven. I didn't want to shoot loose powder(blackhorn 209) but now that is all I will shoot.

buckhorn · Jun 25, 2017

I am shooting 105 grains of Blackhorn 209

utarchery · Jun 25, 2017

LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-17 AT 01:16AM (MST)[p]i would probably guess that it's barrel heat. Also could be a scope issue. If you have a low end scope, sometimes the scope can't handle that kind of recoil

greatbasin · Jun 26, 2017

I have killed 20+ animals with Barnes Muzz. bullets and I've never used a Barnes bullet pusher. They work just fine no matter what you use to seat them on the powder...at least for me anyways. In fact given the choice, they are the only bullet I'd use...absolute killers.

buckhorn · Jun 26, 2017

Here is the picture of the target with the 5 shot group I'm trying to figure out what causes this rise as explained in my above post.

Thanks,
Jeff

utarchery · Jun 28, 2017

Shot mine lastnight and realized it is super heat sensitive

kalielkslayer · Jul 2, 2017

My experience was my first shot (clean barrel) would be about 2-3 inches higher than my next 3 shot group with 100 grains of BH 209 pushing a 338 grain Power Belt in a Accura.

That's why I always fired a fouling shot with that gun/load.

But to climb during a shooting session I would look at my stock. I base this on center fire rifle experience. The heating/swelling of the barrel causes pressure which in turn causes the bullet to fly away from the pressure. In your case look for the bottom of your stock to be pressing on the barrel and when it heats, it causes the bullet to fly high.

Just a guess

buckhorn · Jul 3, 2017

Thanks to all of your help I think we have the problem solved. It appears that it was that heating of the barrel in combination with the stock being too tight. I shaved the stockroom bit to give it a little more clearance and also loosen the torque on the screws about 10 pounds each. I shot again after that and did not have the vertical climb issue.
Now I have ordered a pack of harvester PT gold 260 gr. with black Sabots to give a try next time. Should I try some of the harvester yellow Sabots with the Barnes TMZ boat tail bullets? Also which would likely be more accurate. The 245 grain or the 295 grain. Thanks

kalielkslayer · Jul 3, 2017

Buckhorn,

Good info. I'm glad you got it figured. I'll file that one away and maybe it'll come in handy someday, loosening the screws.

I always used very tight screws into the receiver/barrel, tightening the back screw first. But I file the stock so I can run a folded dollar bill down the barrel to the first screw without resistance.