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Colorado Muzzeloader

 
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Epointer
(240 posts)
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Aug-22-17, 
08:39 PM (MST)
"Colorado Muzzeloader"

I need some advise for a legal Colorado load out of my Remington 700 Ultimate Muzzeloader. Any help is appreciated. Thanks

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  Table of Contents  

 Subject   Author   Message Date   ID 
 RE: Colorado M...  BeanMan      Aug-23-17   1 
 RE: Colorado M...  Fubarracin      Aug-23-17   2 
  RE: Colorado M...  N_Corey      Aug-23-17   3 
   RE: Colorado M...  BeanMan      Aug-23-17   4 
    RE: Colorado M...  Fubarracin      Aug-23-17   5 
     RE: Colorado M...  txhunter58      Aug-23-17   6 
      RE: Colorado M...  Fubarracin      Aug-23-17   7 
     RE: Colorado M...  BeanMan      Aug-23-17   8 
      RE: Colorado M...  BeanMan      Aug-23-17   9 
       RE: Colorado M...  Fubarracin      Aug-24-17   10 
        RE: Colorado M...  txhunter58      Aug-24-17   11 
         RE: Colorado M...  Fubarracin      Aug-24-17   12 
          RE: Colorado M...  BeanMan      Aug-24-17   13 
           RE: Colorado M...  txhunter58      Aug-24-17   14 
            RE: Colorado M...  txhunter58      Aug-24-17   15 
            RE: Colorado M...  BeanMan      Aug-24-17   16 
             RE: Colorado M...  txhunter58      Aug-25-17   17 
 RE: Colorado M...  Buckdownwind      Sep-13-17   18 
  RE: Colorado M...  sjhgraysage      Sep-14-17   19 

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BeanMan
(5318 posts)
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Aug-23-17, 
07:51 AM (MST)
1. "RE: Colorado Muzzeloader"

LAST EDITED ON Aug-23-17 AT 10:15 AM (MST)

No Pelletized powder, no sabots, no scopes.

I use BH 209 powder and 350gr Hornady FPB conicals. Stay away from powerbelts on elk if you can. You are going to have to experiment and find out what loads your rifle likes. When I push my Omega with over 90 grains of BH 209 my groups get real "loose".

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Fubarracin
(83 posts)
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Aug-23-17, 
10:50 AM (MST)
2. "RE: Colorado Muzzeloader"

Never had any experience with a RUM but alot of experience with colorado legal bullets in alot of diffrent muzzleloaders. My starring point is always a 460 grain no excuses some 32 gauge nitro cards and starting load of 60grains of 777. Iv yet to find a gun that absolutely wouldnt shoot some combo of those though i know someday i will. Also i know alot of guys are spooked when i say to start at 60 grains,but my first muzzy kill was a 310B&C bull shot through both of the shoulders with 65 grains of 777.

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N_Corey
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Aug-23-17, 
12:09 PM (MST)
3. "RE: Colorado Muzzeloader"

I'm shooting 112 grains by weight of 209 out of my Remington ultimate. I'm not shooting Colorado legal bullets though so I can't help you there.

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BeanMan
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Aug-23-17, 
03:04 PM (MST)
4. "RE: Colorado Muzzeloader"

Fubar,
I've got some No Excuses sitting in my cabinet, I never could get them to shoot well out of my Omega. I never did try nitro cards of any kind. I see where I can buy some (for next year, it's too close to season to mess with a new load) but how do you load them and get them to stay parallel to the base of the bullet?

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Fubarracin
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Aug-23-17, 
04:12 PM (MST)
5. "RE: Colorado Muzzeloader"

I pan lube them with bees wax hog lard mix then push em into the bore with my thumb then on down with the ram rod. In your qla gun (likely the reason it doesnt like the conicals) i would lay 4-5 in the qla then push them down with the rod. In a qla gun this stack serves 3 purposes #1 its a very good gas seal,#2 it protects the bullet base from the heat, & #3 it gets the bullet out of the qla before the gasses enter it. Iv used this method on both omegas and triumphs. Are you aware of the qla conical issues that some of the tc guns have?

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txhunter58
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Aug-23-17, 
05:30 PM (MST)
6. "RE: Colorado Muzzeloader"

+1 what Beanman said IF your gun can shoot BH 209.

I am using a white rifle and a 460 grbullshop conical over 85 gr of fffg 777 this year. My brother is using 90 gr BH 209 with a 350 FPB

I wish you well, I normally spend several months working up a load for a particular rifle trying out different bullets and powders. Blackpowder is not like centerfires where one size fits all. What shoots well in my rifle many not in yours.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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Fubarracin
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Aug-23-17, 
06:07 PM (MST)
7. "RE: Colorado Muzzeloader"

But whites are so boringly accurate lol im hunting with a s91II in .410 this year!

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BeanMan
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Aug-23-17, 
08:01 PM (MST)
8. "RE: Colorado Muzzeloader"

Yes, the Hornady FPB shoots pretty good in mine but not much else. I still wish for better. And I like the idea of throwing out a 460 grain chunk of lead. I'll have to play with it next year.

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BeanMan
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Aug-23-17, 
08:25 PM (MST)
9. "RE: Colorado Muzzeloader"

And Thanks, Fubar and good luck.

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Fubarracin
(83 posts)
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Aug-24-17, 
03:32 AM (MST)
10. "RE: Colorado Muzzeloader"

Nothing wrong with those fpb bullets either thor is a great bullet of the same design also, but like you say a giant chunk of lead sure works great

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txhunter58
(5689 posts)
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Aug-24-17, 
02:05 PM (MST)
11. "RE: Colorado Muzzeloader"

I have killed 4 elk with the 350 FPB so I have confidence in that bullet, but want to use my White for the first time this year. I also use a wad under the bullet.

Bean, you prob won't ever get your Omega to shoot 460 no excuses well due to the QLA. Mine didn't until I cut the QLA off.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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Fubarracin
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Aug-24-17, 
02:37 PM (MST)
12. "RE: Colorado Muzzeloader"

As long as the bullet exits the qla before the gasses enter the qla the qla should have no effect on accuracy though. A few ways to accomplish the same goal i use a stack of nitro cards some guys use sub bases iv even read of guys pouring the charge putting a card over it pouring 50 grains of corn meal then another card over that before loading the bullet.

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BeanMan
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Aug-24-17, 
05:08 PM (MST)
13. "RE: Colorado Muzzeloader"

Tx, what did it cost to have the QLA off?

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txhunter58
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Aug-24-17, 
08:23 PM (MST)
14. "RE: Colorado Muzzeloader"

$75 about 5 years ago, but I was not happy with the crown that guy put on it and had to take it elsewhere for that. The first guy crowned it like the bore was centered, and that was the whole problem with the QLA, the bore was not centered. Not sure I would do it again. Wish I had know to try something like suggested above instead. I would try the sub bases first:

http://mmpsabots.com/store/50-cal-bbsb-ballistic-bridge-sub-base/

That would provide the rear "bell" that powerbelts and FPBs have that make they OK from an Omega. Anything that prevents the blowby until the bullet exits

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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txhunter58
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Aug-24-17, 
08:25 PM (MST)
15. "RE: Colorado Muzzeloader"

How about it epointer, having any luck?

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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BeanMan
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Aug-24-17, 
08:33 PM (MST)
16. "RE: Colorado Muzzeloader"

I think i would rather invest in a new rifle than cut the QLA off. I may try those sub bases after season as well.

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txhunter58
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Aug-25-17, 
03:01 PM (MST)
17. "RE: Colorado Muzzeloader"

They are cheap and worth a shot. I get pretty good groups using them under the 460 gr lead conical in my white, but get just as good using card wads. My brother didn't want to change this year, so we didn't use them with conicals on his Omega, but want to try it sometime. Didn't see any reason to use them under the FPBs since they already have a expandable "bell" on the back.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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Buckdownwind
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Sep-13-17, 
09:57 PM (MST)
18. "RE: Colorado Muzzeloader"

I must admit that after 5 elk, 1 shotters, numerous mule deer and some whitetail The powerbelts are my choice for western state legal bullets. In Colorado, no scopes your rifle will shoot better than you will, you and the iron sights are the weak link.At about 150 yards your iron sights cover half the animal and by covering it, block out the animas front half to the point you can't tell which part of the front half you are on. The trick I use is to take out the the glow bar so it works like a front peep sight. Now you can see where you are on the front half.
The platinum 287 Powerbelt is big medicine. It will stop an elk every time. The platinum is for heavy thick skinned game. You can use the same weight but in copper jacket for deer they are more likely to stay in the body of a deer than the platinum. The same bullet with, no jacket will give you a good chance in a deer on a mushroom and bullet recovery. I haven't has as much luck with dependable accuracy on the couple of different non-sabot bullets.

One thing that I have fount to be the BIGGEST ACCURACY IMPROVEMENT in the last 10 years that I have hunted at least 1 state 3 every year with a muzzleloader is the Powder BlackHorn209.

I took all of my Shockie's, pyrodex,Pyrodex Pellets, FFG, and you name it and burned it up for 4th of July.

If you are not using the Blackhorn 209 you are hunting in the dark ages, come hunt the 21st century with you inline. It is a Black Powder substitute but doesn't have all of the negative factors of the others because it doesn't use the old blackpowder or blackpowder valter recipe.
You can shoot your Muzzleloader 50 times and it is still clean!
It doesn't stink like burning your old girl friends socks !
The always clean barrel is the best thing you can do for accuracy. Each shot is going through the same barrel conditions so where the bullet goes in consistent. I has shot it every year for the last 5 years someday I might even clean it. Breech plugs come out in a snap, no residue, it burns clean!
There is a reason that they work all year to fill all the shelver with blackhorn 209, yet when August comes every store quickly sell out, hunters have found out about it, and buy 2 just in case.
Since it requires 20% less powder to get the same speed performance it costs less to shoot.

Keep in mind that if you have a older muzzleloader you will be shooting a better and more consistent clean burning. Extruded (Like small pipes) was not even invented when your muzzleloader was built. To upgrade your rifle to today's standard you will want to contact your manufacturer and get a updated flash hole breech plug. Today's muzzleloaders come with a size 52 flash hole and will always give a positive and consistent ignition. The older flash holes were about 42(These are the sizes of the machinist drill to give you a reference.we are talking roughly 1/32 of a inch). Some people just drill the hole with th 52 drill from the hardware store but I recommend highly to contact your manufacturer they know what they are doing. I noticed for CVA a company called Montana Powders in Montana even sells some breech plugs for CVA and possibly others.

1 quick thing to keep in mind is not a 209 primers are created equal. Some fire hotter than others. If you go with CCI 209M you will never go wrong they are one of the hottest, I even saw a black box of 209 primers that said the were for muzzleloaders and they are about 1/2 as hot as the CCI 209M, I assume the M is for muzzleloader, and it works. Remember many 209 primers were made for shotgun shells with large cavities and flake powder pushing up against the fire end of the primer all complete water tight sealed.

Does all of this work ? You bet with a Savage 110M Muzzleloader, a 4-12 scope, 5the 130 Grains by volume BlackHorn209, a CCIM Primer with the rifle in a shooting rest to take out as much human error as possible. I have taken 3 270 Grain Powerbelt bullets and shot a 100 yard target. All three were touching and all but one cut the bullseye.

If that weren't enough I mounted a Burris 4x12 eliminator V2 scope. Sighted it in dead on for 50 yards. Set the scope settings to 12 inches of drom at 200 yards and went to Utah where muzzleloader are allowed to be swcoped. A Muley 5x5 that I had been patterning and was set to take one afternoon cam down 1 draw farth away from me than he had before. This made mt 100 yard shot a a 295 yard shot. With a good rest I used the accurate range dot in the scope, put it on his shoulder and fired. It knocked him right over in his tracks.

There isn't any thing in here that isn't 100% true. I can show you a picture of the target, but as far as the deer all I can show you is a picture of him and I together. He is the brown dead thing in front. You have my name and phone number if you would like to talk.

Greg Merriam
Discounted Hunts LLC CEO
The Hunting Consultant with Hunting Connections
Pro-Staff BlackHorn209
Pro-Staff Dead Down Wind Scent Products
Pro-Staff Benchmaster Shooting Accuracy Products
1204 Button Rock Drive
Longmont, Co 80504
303-776-7528 Voice
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Email: eerElkBear@Gmail.com" target="_blank">DeerElkBear@Gmail.com
Web Page: http://www.discountedhunts.net
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Skype: DiscountedHunts

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sjhgraysage
(1743 posts)
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Sep-14-17, 
03:00 PM (MST)
19. "RE: Colorado Muzzeloader"

Buckdownwind,
Some good points in your post, Thanks.

However some of can not use Blackhorn 209 powder in our muzzleloaders during muzzleloader season due to the state that we live and or hunt in. I can only use a muzzleloader with percussion cap ignition here in WA. Nor can you use it in Idaho or Oregon during muzzleloader season due to restrictions each of those states have.
For Colorado where shotshell primers are legal I would also recommend Blackhorn if you have a muzzleloader that can use it. I have a muzzleloader that I set up for Blackhorn just in case I get a Colorado or Utah muzzleloader tag one day.

If you have had good results with Powerbelt products that is great! Personally I will never buy any more of them. I believe there are other choices that are less expensive (so you can shoot more and practice!) and perform at the same time.

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