Tumbling Bullet

fatrooster · Aug 31, 2017

LAST EDITED ON Aug-31-17 AT 07:52AM (MST)[p]I've got a friend who recently got the new Remington 700 muzzleloader 50 cal. He can shoot two shots, without barrel cleaning, with good grouping but then the next shot will go wild and sometimes not hit paper. Does he need to consentrate on breaking in the barrel correctly? He's using 200 grains of powder. Been using Barnes bullets and Remington bullets. His target is on plywood and he can tell from the shape of the bullet hole that the wild shot is tumbling. Thanks for any advice. fatrooster.

Fubarracin · Aug 31, 2017

Im betting that the problem lies in the 200 grains of powder. Possibly fouling is enough to ever so slightly damage his sabot and then its blowing out due to the pressure from such a heavy load. Not sure just the first thing that popped into my mind.

two7D · Aug 31, 2017

reduce powder charge or use sabot that is designed to handle that pressure. Would probably be smart to swab between every shot. Use of Blackhorn 209 would eliminate the need to swab....that's what I hear anyways.

deadibob · Aug 31, 2017

definitely drop the powder charge. I would try bh209 and put a fiber wad between powder charge and the projectile.

BeanMan · Aug 31, 2017

200 grains of powder. Wow. My most accurate load is using 85 grains of BH209.

buckhorn · Aug 31, 2017

>200 grains of powder. Wow.
>My most accurate load is
>using 85 grains of BH209.
>

Weight or volume?
Thanks

fatrooster · Aug 31, 2017

buckhorn, he uses pellets. Thanks for the answers from all of you. fatrooster.

Idahoron · Aug 31, 2017

I don't think the original Model 700's are rated for that much powder. I wouldn't stand behind it or to the side.

buckhorn · Aug 31, 2017

>I don't think the original Model
>700's are rated for that
>much powder. I wouldn't stand
>behind it or to the
>side.

Ron you are absolutely correct. I have the original 700 and I have recently converted it with the badger Ridge 209 kit. Before The conversion my max load was 120 grains volume of Pyrodex
I am at now shooting blackhorn and I am at 80 grains by weight which is around 105 grains volume. And that load with 290 grain Barnes TMZ's has all the recoil I want to indure at the range. Not sure what the conversion rate is for blackhorn vs. Pyrodex but I'm pretty sure that's maxed out for that gun.

hntbambi · Aug 31, 2017

While the new Rem Ult ML will handle 200 gr of powder, it will be on the edge meaning you need to clean after every shot as that much fouling will definitely impact the following shots. If using T7 the crud ring should be huge.

elkassassin · Aug 31, 2017

LAST EDITED ON Aug-31-17 AT 09:17PM (MST)[p] Hey Fat Banty!

You're F'N With us,Right?

This 200 Grains of Powder BS Kills me!

I'm Living Proof the Gun will Handle it!

You wanna Create a CRUD RING in 2 Shots?

You Want Inaccuracy?

You Wanna Make Mush out of your Shoulder?

Then Ya!

Shoot 200 Grains of Powder!

Back Me Off to 1,700 Yards,650 is a Little Close & I'm Not Comfortable with it!

A GUT SHOT at 1,700 Yards will Still Make Some Good BRAGGIN Rights so I Can Say I At Least Hit Him!

deadibob · Aug 31, 2017

200 grains of powder probably leaves about 4" of barrel length for the bullet ;-)

Mallards_Only · Aug 31, 2017

Whaddya wanna bet all this advice about the powder charge is falling on deaf ears? After all, more has to better, right?

HayJack · Sep 13, 2017

My Dad bought the Remington ultimate this year and we found that if you swab after every shot our groups hold consistent. We shoot the 200 grains of 777. My brother in law bought the same gun and wasn't swabbing every shot and after a couple shots he'd have a tumbling bullet. At 300 yards we were both holding 1 1/2" groups swabbing every shot.. it was pretty impressive. That was with no wind on a shooting bench. Even a slight breeze seemed to push that bullet 5" + at that distance

darrack10 · Oct 11, 2017

Same issue here and I wanted to throw my Rem. UM away. I did a ton of research and found out the sabot was to blame. You have to use the green sabot that is supplied with the Remington(barnes) bullets or I got some MMP12s that also work. You can look up Randy Wakeman, he has done a ton of data on this gun and the loads. I was not accurate with 200 grains of 777 so I switched to BH 209. It is much better and more accurate in my opinion. Make sure you DO NOT use 200 grains by weight of BH. The load that shoots best in my gun is 102 grains by weight with the 275 gr. parker match hunters. The supplies Remington bullets also shot very well with the same amount of BH 209.

Mallards_Only · Oct 12, 2017

LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-17 AT 07:30AM (MST)[p]Don't believe everything Randy Wakeman says. He's a sponsor whore. If the load is now working for you, great! But just because Randy says it doesn't make it gospel. He's proven his idiocy many times on another shooting forum.

gg · Oct 23, 2017

Had the same problem with my Ultimate ML. I was able to determine it was from sabot failure due to heat or at least I think heat. Shoot a couple shots and things look perfect then the next shot doesn't even hit the target. Moved target to 25 yards and showed bullet tumbling. I was able to go out and collect fired sabots and the first couple of shot sabots were intact with petals peeled back. The failed sabots are completely shredded, gnarled and in pieces. I am working on a solution but have not tried it yet. Hope this helps.

buckhorn · Oct 23, 2017

I agree that it's heat causing the Sabots to fail especially with a heavy charge. Gun barrels and Sabots need to stay cool otherwise you're just wasting powder and bullets when shooting with a warm barrel.