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Blackhorn Convert

 
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freedomrocks
(61 posts)
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Sep-06-17, 
03:52 PM (MST)
"Blackhorn Convert"

So i bit the bullet this year and went to blackthorn 209 in My CVA accura, This stuff is everything i have heard about for years Amazing!!!!! I have a couple questions, Is a foul shot recommended ? And i head read in several articles where it should be shot clear every night and reloaded fresh in the A.M. I welcome all thoughts,,, Thank you Freedom

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  Table of Contents  

 Subject   Author   Message Date   ID 
 RE: Blackhorn ...  Anaconda      Sep-06-17   1 
  RE: Blackhorn ...  deadibob      Sep-06-17   2 
   RE: Blackhorn ...  buckhorn      Sep-07-17   3 
 RE: Blackhorn ...  hntbambi      Sep-08-17   4 
  RE: Blackhorn ...  buckhorn      Sep-08-17   5 
   RE: Blackhorn ...  deadibob      Sep-08-17   6 
    RE: Blackhorn ...  buckhorn      Sep-08-17   7 
     RE: Blackhorn ...  kalielkslay...      Sep-09-17   8 
     RE: Blackhorn ...  deadibob      Sep-09-17   9 
      RE: Blackhorn ...  tailchasers      Sep-09-17   10 
       RE: Blackhorn ...  deadibob      Sep-09-17   11 
        RE: Blackhorn ...  freedomrocks      Sep-09-17   12 
         RE: Blackhorn ...  ELKOHOLIC      Sep-18-17   13 
          RE: Blackhorn ...  txhunter58      Sep-18-17   14 
           RE: Blackhorn ...  txhunter58      Sep-18-17   15 
            RE: Blackhorn ...  kalielkslay...      Sep-24-17   16 
             RE: Blackhorn ...  elkassassin      Sep-24-17   17 

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Anaconda
(1351 posts)
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Sep-06-17, 
07:02 PM (MST)
1. "RE: Blackhorn Convert"

From my experience, no fouling shot necessary.

A few years back, I loaded on opening morning, and carried my CVA for 5 days, several times in the rain.
Never got a shot, so after the last hunt, I pulled the trigger and it went of perfect, no problems.

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deadibob
(1766 posts)
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Sep-06-17, 
09:24 PM (MST)
2. "RE: Blackhorn Convert"

No fouling shot needed and unless you are in a rainforest you will be fine keeping a charge in your rifle. Two things to know about Blackhorn 209

1. It is very expensive and the price goes up every year. I just bought some at Cabelas last week for $36.99, last year Cabelas had it on sale for $25.99. My local store is $48. Remember this is for 10 ounces, not a pound like everything else (cocaine didn't cost this much in the '80's )

2. Most stores don't ever stock enough Blackhorn and they sell out early, so stock up.

and finally this brings me to #3. Blackhorn 209 charges are normally measured by volume, not weight. The formula is: volume units x .7= grains of weight. If you don't get this right and are measuring on a powder measure you could blow up your gun. 70 grains weight = 100 grains volume; 100 grains weight is 150 grains volume.

A BULLET TRAIN! The only other thing besides a good guy with a gun, that will stop a bad guy with a gun

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buckhorn
(534 posts)
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Sep-07-17, 
09:42 AM (MST)
3. "RE: Blackhorn Convert"

LAST EDITED ON Sep-07-17 AT 09:43 AM (MST)

Good post deadeye

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hntbambi
(714 posts)
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Sep-08-17, 
07:04 AM (MST)
4. "RE: Blackhorn Convert"

Congrats on coming over to the BH209 side. It is a great propellant and as long as your gun will ignite it, it is the best choice for muzzleloader hunting where smokeless is not legal.

I have not found the need to put in a fresh load every day as long as I am shooting saboted bullets. If you are shooting naked bullets like the Hornady FPB I might go fresh every day. The sabot will create the water barrier to keep your charge dry.

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buckhorn
(534 posts)
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Sep-08-17, 
01:56 PM (MST)
5. "RE: Blackhorn Convert"

So if I'm shooting 80 grains by weight of blackhorn. Is that 114.2 grains by volume?
How much Pyrodex would it take to equal that Blackhorn charge?

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deadibob
(1766 posts)
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Sep-08-17, 
04:18 PM (MST)
6. "RE: Blackhorn Convert"

Yep, that would be correct volume, 114.2 grains. If by equalling a pyrodex charge you mean equal in velocity. You will not get even close to the velocity with pyrodex as you will get with that charge of Blackhorn, no matter the charge.

I normally shoot between 100-120 grains of Blackhorn 209. 100 grains when I'm running low and want to stretch it.

If you have a chrono use it with blackhorn. It beats my old triple 7 loads by 200-300 fps and triple 7 spanks pyrodex in velocity.

I haven't used pyrodex in probably 15 years. I still have some pyrodex and triple 7 cans, I just don't use them.

A BULLET TRAIN! The only other thing besides a good guy with a gun, that will stop a bad guy with a gun

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buckhorn
(534 posts)
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Sep-08-17, 
08:49 PM (MST)
7. "RE: Blackhorn Convert"

Thanks deadi
Sorry to the OP I didn't mean to hijack your thread but I thought that deadi has some knowledge on this topic that we could all learn from.
I agree that blackhorn is in a class of its own as far as muzzleloader powder goes.
I don't own a chronograph as of now so I really don't know what my velocity is. What would you say that 80 grains of Blackhorn (weight)-114.2(volume) pushing a Barnes 290 grain TMZ in a harvester crushed rib sabot would Chrono out at? My particular gun has a 24 inch barrel with a 1/28 twist.
Thanks

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kalielkslayer
(250 posts)
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Sep-09-17, 
01:25 AM (MST)
8. "RE: Blackhorn Convert"

I had a 16 day muzzy elk tag in 2010 in Nevada. I always fired a fouling shot. My first bullet impacted 3" inches higher than shots 2-4.

I fired my gun one evening after 2 days of snow, gun went bang. It wasn't necessary but I was paranoid.

Very confident the CVA Acura will keep the powder dry.

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deadibob
(1766 posts)
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Sep-09-17, 
11:49 AM (MST)
9. "RE: Blackhorn Convert"

> Thanks deadi
> Sorry to the OP
>I didn't mean to hijack
>your thread but I thought
>that deadi has some knowledge
>on this topic that we
>could all learn from.
>I agree that blackhorn is in
>a class of its own
>as far as muzzleloader powder
>goes.
> I don't own a chronograph
>as of now so I
>really don't know what my
>velocity is. What would you
>say that 80 grains of
>Blackhorn (weight)-114.2(volume) pushing a Barnes
>290 grain TMZ in a
>harvester crushed rib sabot
>would Chrono out at? My
>particular gun has a 24
>inch barrel with a 1/28
>twist.
>Thanks
In a perfect world you would probably be close to 2,000fps. You are losing a bit with a 24" barrel but the biggest factor is going to be how tight a seal you are getting between your bore and sabot. Until you shoot over a chrono, it's all a guess.

A BULLET TRAIN! The only other thing besides a good guy with a gun, that will stop a bad guy with a gun

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tailchasers
(2766 posts)
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Sep-09-17, 
12:58 PM (MST)
10. "RE: Blackhorn Convert"

As long as the weather is dry I do not reload every day. Longest I have gone is 3 days and the charge went off as expected. I repack the charge 2x each day, morning and afternoon,after experiencing hangfires. After packing 2x a day this issue has not resurfaced.

"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."

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deadibob
(1766 posts)
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Sep-09-17, 
01:23 PM (MST)
11. "RE: Blackhorn Convert"

There is a muzzleloading blog by an old man in Montana. I just found it the other day. North american muzzle loading, I believe. This guy was testing blackhorn before it was named blackhorn. There is a lot to learn there. He took a charge of Blackhorn 209 soaked it in a film canister for an hour and a half. Put it on paper towels, dried it out and shot it. He claims it was absolutely the same results as fresh blackhorn 209. Check it out.

A BULLET TRAIN! The only other thing besides a good guy with a gun, that will stop a bad guy with a gun

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freedomrocks
(61 posts)
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Sep-09-17, 
06:05 PM (MST)
12. "RE: Blackhorn Convert"

Thanks for the responses lots of good info, i just picked up another can of BH, and more 270 gr, platinum Powerbelts, i mounted a ultimate slam 3 x 9 leupold on it , changed out the breach plug, poured 100 gr, by vol down the tube, touched it off at 25 yards, dead on, backed off to 100 yds. after 3 shoots and minor adj. 2 inches high at 100yds, the groups are good out to 250 yards, if i miss it won't be the guns fault ,, bring on the season!!!!

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ELKOHOLIC
(1281 posts)
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Sep-18-17, 
02:36 PM (MST)
13. "RE: Blackhorn Convert"

A fouling shot has more to do with your rifle than the powder. You just need to test it. Most shooters worried about accuracy use a fouling shot before shooting for "small groups".

As for shooting it every night, most of the time it is not necessary.

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txhunter58
(5715 posts)
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Sep-18-17, 
06:20 PM (MST)
14. "RE: Blackhorn Convert"

Just remember that you should add about 15% to what you get from real black or pyrodex when comparing powders/ charges. In other words, a 100 gr charge of BH by volume would equal 115 gr of black or Pyrodex. So when you add 15% to your 114 gr/volume, you are really shooting the equivalent of 131 gr load. That is a lot of powder!

Not sure what you are hunting with the 270 gr platinum powerbelt, but that bullet could blow up if it hits anything substantial (bone) going that fast. Powerbelts are SOFT pure lead bullets. The "platinum" is a thin skin around the lead and does NOTHING to increase the toughness of the bullet. If you don't believe that, call the company, they will tell you the same thing. It is NOT a protective jacket. The only thing about the bullet that makes it hold together better is it has a smaller hollow point at the nose.

I switched to the Hornady FPB because they use a lead alloy that holds together better than powerbelts. If I still used powerbelts, I would not exceed 100 gr of BH 209. Harder you push them, the more likely they will come apart on impact. Send it thru the ribs/double lung, and you are great, but if it hits a bone, you could be in for a nonrecovered animal. Soft lead does not like to be pushed too fast.

See my post on the FPB and elk. They have a 300 and 350 bullet. After shooting them at tough game (elk) I will never use another powerbelt. That said, they many not load in some CVAs that have smaller bores

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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txhunter58
(5715 posts)
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Sep-18-17, 
06:55 PM (MST)
15. "RE: Blackhorn Convert"

As to the original questions:

I do not shoot a fouling shot with BH. I fire three 209 primers and then run a patch down the barrel. In my gun, that approximates fouling

As far as how often to reload, with BH I have gone up to 3-4 days without reloading. This elk trip, we loaded up on Saturday morning and my brother shot his elk on Tuesday morning without reloading. And we had afternoon showers almost every day. Went bang without hesitation. He shoots an Omega which is pretty well sealed on the breech side, and use Muzzle condoms for the barrel.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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kalielkslayer
(250 posts)
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Sep-24-17, 
00:08 AM (MST)
16. "RE: Blackhorn Convert"

I'm surprised you are getting accuracy with that load. My Accura, with the 300 gr titanium powerbelt, my groups began to open with anything over 100 grains.

Maybe the lighter bullet allows more powder?

I always felt the plastic skirt couldn't handle the pressure.

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elkassassin
(15914 posts)
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Sep-24-17, 
07:09 AM (MST)
17. "RE: Blackhorn Convert"

>I'm surprised you are getting accuracy
>with that load. My
>Accura, with the 300 gr
>titanium powerbelt, my groups began
>to open with anything over
>100 grains.
>
>Maybe the lighter bullet allows more
>powder?
>
>I always felt the plastic skirt
>couldn't handle the pressure.


Titanium?

Back Me Off to 1,700 Yards,650 is a Little Close & I'm Not Comfortable with it!

A GUT SHOT at 1,700 Yards will Still Make Some Good BRAGGIN Rights so I Can Say I At Least Hit Him!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OsWQNYfEYo

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