Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

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Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

Studs Of The Mountain 2006 issue just came out. The buck of the year was a 216 B and C "blacktail" from Klickitat County. Now I'm not a record book guy and don't really care much about it, but I just don't understand why Klickitat County continues to be the only county entirely East of the Cascades that WDFW still labels as blacktail country in the western half of the county. They simply are not blacktail and for guys that harvest a true trophy blacktail on the west side it is a bit of a rip off.

Congrat's to Wamuley for another mug shot in this issue.

-D
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

I agree....for once with you. Lets see a pic just for the hell of it. Thanks
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

It cant be an official B&C blackie if it is from Klickitat. They have to be shot west of the I-5 corridor to be concidered a true blacktail. There are definately some monsters in the Klickitat, but they are far from being blackies! Too many mulie genes running around those parts!
Eric
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RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

I don't have a pic, sorry, but it is in the January issue of Wa Fishing and Hunting News. They quoted it as a 216 B and C blacktail. Guess maybe someone should clarify that for F&H News.
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

>It cant be an official B&C
>blackie if it is from
>Klickitat. They have to
>be shot west of the
>I-5 corridor to be concidered
>a true blacktail. There
>are definately some monsters in
>the Klickitat, but they are
>far from being blackies!
>Too many mulie genes running
>around those parts!
>Eric
>
deerline.gif

i thought i-5 was the boundery but just looked tonight on the bc website and they are saying half the state is the boundery .klickitat is not blacktail country been there they are bench bucks.look at the BC website it dont show eastern wash.
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

still would like to see the awesome monster bench buck from the east.
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

From looking at the buck it definately appears to be a bench buck. He is a hog though.....
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

I think it was shot off the reservation.
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-07 AT 10:02PM (MST)[p]I always thought that the B&C boundry for blacktail was the Pacific Crest Trail in the Mount Adams Area. I know that B&C only scores elk west of I-5 as a Rosevelt Elk.
I'm pretty sure B&C has started a seperate scoring system that now includes these cross breed Mulie Blackie type deer. I'm almost possitive they did. They just couldn't keep denying these 216 type monsters their due.
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

i have searched high and low for a pic of the klickitat buck on-line...come up empty. the guy that killed that deer comes on here i believe. there's some pics in the photo gallery of a big bull with his name attached to it. i can't find a picture anywhere i can post of the deer though...maybe he will.
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

What is the line on the big bull? I would like to see it, somehow I must have missed it.
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

LAST EDITED ON Jan-16-07 AT 09:59PM (MST)[p]B&C/P&Y recognize only 5 species of deer (Whitetail, Coues Whitetail, Columbian Blacktail, Mule Deer, Sitka Blacktail). Here are the boundaries (from my official measurers manual) for Columbian Blacktail in the following states:

WASHINGTON:

Beginning at the Washington-British Columbia border, the boundary line runs south along the west boundary of North Cascade National Park to the township line between R10E and R11E. W.M., which is then followed directly south to its intersection with the north border of Mt. Rainer National Park, then along the north, west, and south park boundaries until it intersects with the township line between R9E and R10E W.M., which is then followed directly south to the Columbia River near Cook.

OREGON:

Beginning at Multnomah Falls on the Columbia River, the boundary coincides with the western boundary of the National Forest to Tiller in Douglas County, then south along Highway 227 to Highway 62 at Trail, then south following Highway 62 to Medford. From Medford, the boundary follows the township line between R1W and R2W E.W.M. to the California border.


Basically, only "part" of Klickitat County is classifed as Columbia Blacktail depending on where it was taken (far western portion). But ANY 216" buck is a TOAD....no matter the species.


BOHNTR )))---------->
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

216 is a nice muley -but an incredible blacktail. It seems the B and C folks don't own a globe. The Pacific Crest trail should be the divider between the species. The mountains bend west at Klickitat County and the B and C guide, as well as WDFW doesn't allow for that. There is blacktail influence all throughout the east slope of the Cascades. I have to take back what I said earlier, I think the boundaries need to be redefined so they make better geographic sense. -It is a great buck though.
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

I have to disagree with ya D-Man on the crest trail as the boundary I see alot of muleys on the west side of that trail. If you are trying to keep a pure strain in the record books I think there boudaries are spot on. I know there are pure blacktails west of the boundaries they have set, but until they have a DNA process that can prove it's pure, I like the boundaries where they are at. (unless I shoot a 216" blacktail east of there present boundaries)
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

I would agree with ya on this one ironhead, as a kid I grew up hunting deer(blacktail variety) in central Klickitat co. mostly north and west of Brooks Memorial State park on hwy. 97 up to the Simcoe mnts. and the rez boundary. As time went by and I got older and more knowledgeable of deer and deer habitat I realized that all the deer my dad and uncle and cousins were shooting were bench bucks or blacktail-muley hybrids. Some of them had stripped tails, white onthe sides with a black stripe down the center, others were the typical bushy black tail, body sizes on some of the bucks were quite large. The biggest buck was shot by uncle Chuck, it was a 3x4 with a 26" spread,we called him Oscar.
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

I'm sure there's overlapping all along the crest. My point is that for the sake of having the best cut off geographically, it shouldn't differ from one end of the range to the other. Though, I can understand how if someone shot a nice buck on the east side, they'd want it scored as a blacktail ;-)
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

One other issue, the record Gold Bar blacktail from the 90's was by many accounts, a muley, but was admitted as a blacktail. Overlapping is not exclusive to the Klickitat area and is an issue everywhere. Short of having a bio examine every potential record animal, there's no way to confirm for sure. I do know that having at best an ambiguous boundary will only lead eventually to more pissed off hunters than there would be otherwise.
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

Part of a good article from BT Country on the subject;

The Columbian Blacktail Deer
By Dan Gibson

For many years the Columbian Blacktail Deer has been considered a subspecies of the Mule deer, however recent DNA testing has proven this not to be the case. In Valerius Geist's informative book Mule Deer Country he explains that by testing the mitochondrial DNA (the mothers DNA ) of the three species (blacktail, whitetail and mule deer), researchers have now determined that it was the mating of Whitetail does and Blacktail buck's that gave rise to the Mule deer and not the opposite as was once suspected.

It is now believed that millions of years ago the Whitetail deer expanded its range down the east coast of the United States, across Mexico, and then back up the West coast, where it eventually evolved into the Blacktail Deer. This may help to explain the strong resemblance in appearance and psychological characteristics between the two. Thousands of years later as the recently evolved Blackball's range spread eastward and the Whitehall's range again expanded westward, the two deer again met. At this point the Blacktail bucks, displaced the Whitetail bucks, and bred the Whitetail does. Researches now believe that it is this hybridization that produced what is now know as the Muledeer.

For those of you not familiar with the Columbian Blacktail, their range, as recognized by Boone and Crockett (B&C), extends form central British Columbia, south to the Monterey Bay in California. Columbian Blacktails inhabit a narrow strip of land from the shores of the pacific ocean inland for approximately a hundred miles. This distance will of course vary from location to location

In regards to the geographic boundaries of the Columbian Blacktail one must rely on the observations of wildlife biologists, graduate students and scientists, who have done extensive scientific research and identification on the Columbian Blacktail and it's range. I wish it was as simple as having years of hunting experience in order to be able do identify the possible genetic make-up of a particular deer, but unfortunately it isn't. This is why DNA is such an important tool in deer identification.

When I refer to the boundaries of the Columbian Blacktail, I am referring to the recognized Boone & Crockett boundaries. B&C's boundaries are not the exact boundaries of the Columbian Blacktail, they have actually been moved slightly inward to help reduce the possibility of hybridization with Muledeer or Muledeer/Blacktail crosses. Since we are a hunting website these are the boundaries we recognize.

There are undoubtedly pure Columbian Blacktails in other area's but because of possible hybridization, they are not considered pure Columbian Blacktails by B&C. Just because a buck appears to be 100% Columbian, doesn't mean that generations ago there wasn't a Muledeer in his heritage.

Blacktail deer on average are smaller than their Whitetail and Muledeer cousins. Here in my north western California a 140 pound buck (live weight) is considered very good size. Blacktail bucks do occasionally approach 200 pounds, but from my experience, it's a very rare occurrence. Years ago I killed a huge bodied forked horn in San Joaquine county that tipped the scales at 171 pounds field dressed. To date this buck is the largest Columbian Blacktail I have ever personally witnessed.

Although I do not have a lot of experience with Oregon Blacktails I am told they are slightly larger in body size than the California bucks. Washington on the other hand produces some very large bodied Blacktails. If my experience with this website is any indication, it appears that bucks weighing 175 lb. field dressed are not that uncommon in the "Evergreen state".

Horn size in Blacktails runs contrary to what one might expect and is an often debated topic among Blacktail hunters. In the Columbian Blacktail body size appears to have little relationship to horn size. This is generally not the situation with Whitetail and Muledeer. In their case, body size and antler size are closely related and as a rule of thumb both get larger as you travel north. The larger the body the larger the antlers. This becomes very evident when you compare a Florida Whitetail to a Michigan Whitetail, or a Desert Mule Deer to a Rocky Mountain Mule Deer.

In the case of the Columbian Blacktail this circumstance does not apply. California, the southern most state in the Columbian Blacktails range, has produced more B&C Blacktails than either Oregon or Washington. One would think that the opposite would be true but the record books state the fact clearly. The largest racked Columbian Blacktails are found in the southern portion of their range. Even though California and Oregon regularly produce higher scoring bucks than Washington. The current world record comes from Washington state. Obviously California and Oregon are not the only areas capable of producing huge Blacktails.
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

One of the reasons you may not see as many B & C buck from Washington and Northern Oregon might have a lot to do with the incredibly difficult habitat they live in. You are dealing with a lot of rainforest type of brush. We do have a lot of clearcuts that produce a large share of the bucks but my personal belief is that the majority of the book type bucks are very shy and live in those tough dark regions. I have killed my fare share of 100" - 125" bucks and everyone of them were killed in the thick stuff. I just can't seem to get over that next hurdle and make it all come together on a 135" buck.

On another note, I also agree with the standing boundaries, I spend a lot of time in Washingtons Goat Rocks Wilderness and I have seen numerous Muleys a few miles on the west side.

Coon
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

FYI- The goldbar buck was proven to be a hoax and is not recognized as the record.
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

Not a big records guy, but from what I recall the deer was legit, but was mishandled by the taxidermist, causing it to be disqualified from official recognition around 2002. I'm checking in to it out of curiosity.
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

Well, hell! I guess that my 4x4 benchleg Mt. Adams buck should do pretty well in the P&Y for blackies. I think that it is crap cuz you cant tell me that those west Cascade bucks are anything else than a cross breed.
Eric
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RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

I actually saw the antlers from that Spada Basin buck they were not blacktail antlers by any means. They were friggin huge though. I heard from a friend that someone tried to claim it as a blacktail and was later discovered to be a muley. (This last part is only hear say).
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

Does anyone have more info on the Gold Bar buck of any kind? I can't find anything else on it.
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

SCI has it listed as the #1 Non-typical ever taken with archery equipment. I only have the 99 edition of P&Y and the buck was entered in 2002 does any body have the newest addition. Don Engel is the hunters name.
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

Good finds, that's pretty much what I remember. The poor guy nearly gave up hunting over the taxidermy deal. Bunch of BS.
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

I know a guy that has shot a 168-170 class blcktail. He will not enter it with B&C. It is a huge buck
 
RE: Wa. F&H News blacktail buck of the year

Checked the latest addition of the P&Y book and its not listed. The Engel buck
 

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