Rifle for My Son-Advice

kicker · Apr 1, 2014

Thanks to the new law change my son will be hunting big game in Idaho with me this year. I'm not a big gun guy and he is not big enough to draw enough bow weight yet. What are your opinions on calibers for him? Will be hunting deer/elk and I plan on putting a muzzle break on whatever we get him. He is smaller in stature so it can't be too big. He shoots a 20gauge now just fine but that's about his limit as far as kick.

Any suggestions? Kind of on a budget but open to any suggestions...

Thanks,

Kicker

sageadvice · Apr 1, 2014

There could be lots of opinions here on your subject but i believe the only one maybe being wrong are those that say you need some kind of "Magnum" to hunt big game.

I'd get him a 7mm-08 and have it loaded with either 140gr Nosler Accubonds or 120gr Barnes bullets. Either of these loading should be mild enough in recoil for your Son to handle, maybe the Barnes 120gr being milder between the two, yet deadly out to reasonable range, say 300 yds or more if he is capable.

Joey

"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

Captain_coues · Apr 1, 2014

I agree 7mm-08. It's very popular lately in the groups of shooters I'm around.

blacktailBC · Apr 1, 2014

7mm-08, 260 remington, 250 savage, .243 all would probably fit your bill. 7mm-08 and 260 rem being more versatile as he gets older.

NVBighorn · Apr 1, 2014

+1 on the 7mm-08. I had never shot one before but on a whim I bought a cheap Savage this last winter. Been having a blast with it. I agree with sage on the 120s. Speer makes a 130 grain boattail I'm playing with too. It's a nice compromise between 120 and 140 grains even if it's not a very exotic sounding, or priced, bullet. You can get 3000 fps out of it with the right powder. Savage makes a youth Axis rifle that is very reasonable. If you do some basic tuning they're a fun little gun. Then when he gets bigger you can get a Boyds laminate stock for a hundred bucks and a trigger upgrade.

[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup, I just stir it.[/font]

kicker · Apr 1, 2014

Thanks guys!

marley · Apr 1, 2014

If you are okay with a brake on it I would go with a .280. Great for deer and elk and with a brake very tame. My son (12 yrs old) is very small for his age and shoots his .280 great.

440sixpack · Apr 1, 2014

270 , a rifle you never outgrow and eveyone needs one.

Recoil is very mild.

Stay thirsty my friends

RELH · Apr 1, 2014

Kicker; I also reccommend the 7mm-08 as a good first caliber for a youth that will hunt both deer and elk.
If you keep your bullet weight from 120-140 gr. you should not need to put a muzzle brake on the rifle making it a lot safer on his ears when shooting while hunting.
I bought a Marlin X-7 youth model for my small sized grandson when he was 13 years old. He had no problems with the recoil and the rifle fit was good using the shorter youth stock. Rifle is also super accurate posting a 3/8 group using 140 gr. Nosler Partition bullet that is a good choice for both elk and deer.
Savage also makes a youth model in that caliber and both the Marlin and Savage are very reasonable in price.

RELH

utcubby · Apr 1, 2014

Got a 7mm-08 for my 10 year old and he loves it. Recoil on his 20 gauge is more than the 7mm-08.

440sixpack · Apr 1, 2014

If a 7mm-08 and a 270 Win shoot a 140 gr bullet at about the same speed, why would the recoil be any different?

Along with having a higher bc bullet 270 has other advantages. give it some thought, there is a reason it's been so popular for so many years. a 270 FW would be a great kids gun, load it down if you have to for a while.

Stay thirsty my friends

Captain_coues · Apr 1, 2014

It's true. The first center fire rifle my dad bought me was a 270 with a BOSS. It was an A-Bolt Browning, and I still use it today.

RELH · Apr 1, 2014

LAST EDITED ON Apr-02-14 AT 02:31AM (MST)[p]Dude that is fine if he is a reloader and can load the 270 down to the level of the 7mm-08. If he depends on factory ammo, the 270 has higher velocity and more recoil in a rifle with the same weight. The 7mm-08 is also offered in some shorter actions that make it a lighter rifle for a youngster to pack around all day.

RELH

Instead of giving our opinion, lets put some facts out there for the guy to figure out which caliber is better for his son in terms of recoil Vs. caliber large enough to include elk at a reasonable range.

The majority of experts feel that about 15 pounds of recoil is the upper limit that most shooters can feel reasonably comfortable with. Over 20 pounds will give some experienced shooters a flinch due to the recoil.

A 270 caliber rifle at 8 pounds of weight will develope 16.5 to 17 pounds of recoil depending on the bullet weight used. Just over that threshhold of 15 pounds.

A 7mm-08 rifle at the same weight will develope 12.1 to 12.6 pounds of recoil depending on weight of bullet used. A difference of 4 pounds less recoil that may make the difference with a new shooter. These figures are based on using standard factory loaded ammunition.
I still aggree with most of the guys above that replied the 7mm-08 is a better choice for a new young shooter for less recoil in a hunting rifle used for deer and the occasional elk hunt if shots are kept to a reasonable distance.

MaineFlatlander · Apr 2, 2014

7mm-08. If you to with a muzzle brake make sure he uses good hearing protection.

oregonmuley · Apr 2, 2014

Another vote for the 7MM-08, load up or buy some factory ammo with the 120 grain Nosler BT's and go kill stuff

Recoil is much better with the 120's.

440sixpack · Apr 2, 2014

RELH you do like to argue, even more tham me I think.

Let's do apples for apples with factory ammo, Hornady says their 140 gr 7mm-08 is 2910 fps, their 140gr 270 is 2940 fps.

Anyone who wimps out over the recoil difference of 30 fps on a 140gr bullet better take up needle point and forget hunting.

Nobody can go wrong with a 270.

Stay thirsty my friends

sageadvice · Apr 2, 2014

Easy decision, the 7mm-08 can be factory loaded with light recoiling 120gr ammo for your Son while he is cutting his teeth in the game yet as 44o nicely points out, it can also be loaded up, also factory ammo, to very near the 270 Winchester. In a smaller action, more efficient cartridge, the 7mm-08 is about as perfect a young hunters round as you can get.

Joey

"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

RELH · Apr 2, 2014

LAST EDITED ON Apr-02-14 AT 09:55PM (MST)[p]Dude you always believe market hype. It is well known that ammo makers will give higher FPS to sell their ammo. Why don't you buy some of that 7mm-08 ammo and test it in a standard 24 inch barrel and see if you get anywhere near that listed velocity.

My figures came from a firearms expert conducting tests to determine velocity of factory ammo in a hunting rifle and doing the math to determine the recoil factor. I was not aware that you still fell for all the market hype put out by ammo makers to sell suckers like you their super duper ammo that was tested in a longer then normal test barrel.

Dude do a web search for "Rifle recoil table" by Chuck Hawks. Hawks is not in the employ of any ammo maker or firearms maker and is as close to unbiased as you can get. He has been doing ballistics experimenting for around 40 years and complied the recoil table. His experience fars exceeds yours and mine put together.

RELH

REDDOG · Apr 3, 2014

Chuck Hawks is a hack..not joining the argument.just sayin

ELKOHOLIC · Apr 4, 2014

One more vote for the 7mm-08.

Califelkslayer · Apr 4, 2014

Kicker, another vote for the 7mm-08!!!!

I own a .280 rem and my wife shoots a 7mm-08. I load for both. I can get 200+ fps more out of the .280, but at the cost more recoil. And the .280 is ported. Personally, I love the .280. But for a 120 lbs woman, or child, the reduced recoil of the 7mm-08 makes them much more dangerous since the recoil is so manageable.

I've never measured recoil like this Hawk guy but just look at any reloading manual and the 7mm-08 has about 15% less case capacity. Powder means noise and recoil. Some calibers are just inhertantly more efficient. And I believe the 7mm-08 with a 120-140 gr bullet is the perfect bullet for a new shooter.

I load 139 gr Hornady SSTs for deer and antelope, 140 gr Barnes TSXs for elk. Her rifle has dropped 2 elk in their tracks between 180-200 yards. She did lose one but she shot it too far back on a running shot which, in hindsight, I should have told her not to take. But a running animal, in timber, she'd shot before i really could have said anything.

I use the .280 as a comparision since it is so close to the .270 win. For your application I swear by the 7mm-08.

Other calibers I would consider would be the .243, 257 Roberts or .260 Rem, maybe even the 25/06. But IMO the 7mm-08 is a lot better all around caliber if elk or moose are a possibility. If anything bigger than deer are 4 or more years in the future, the .243 would be my choice as long as you are willing to buy another gun for him in 3-4 years.