Frustrated with gun builder!

Long story short, I purchased a semi custom .270 wsm from a well known bullet/rifle builder. It has been sent back twice for feeding issues. When I have 3 (Max) rounds in the mag and try to chamber the top round, periodically it pops the shell up and out of the rifle!
It takes on average 5 weeks for them to "fix" the rifle. Each time they send it back to me I am assured the rifle has been fixed and works properly. Although both times I received the rifle back the problem still exists.

On the last go round, they sent me some new custom ammo to feed through the rifle, thinking that my nickle plated factory ammo was the culprit. I found this to not be the case, it made no difference.
I have not yet called them back to tell them their custom ammo did not fix the problem. My question is, how do I handle this from here forward? I am more than ticked at this point. I have been very kind and more than patient, as they have been as well, but I'm not sure how much longer I can put up with this. I know if I come out guns blaring mad, they have all the power to tell me pound sand.
Am I justified to tell them to start fresh on a new one? Or keep sending this one back to be tinkered with? Should I allow it to take 5 more weeks? I need to get my hand loads figured out for this years hunts. These should ave been figured out this winter.
This is more than agrivating! Especially for what the rifle cost me.

Call them and advise them the problem still exists. Advise them that you want it fixed or refund your purchase price. If they opened the rails for the short fat cartidge, they may have open it a little too much allowing the cartidge to pop up too soon.

RELH

RELH-
I wish I knew what you were talking about on the rails, I know nothing when it comes to the internal workings of guns.
The part that makes it tough is I truely believe that it's an isolated case. I know they make very good rifles.

The rails are the two horizontal flat pieces of metal that your bolt and bolt lugs ride on. They are located between the bolt and the magazine body the holds your cartidges.
I do not know what action they used to build your rifle. If they used an action that was made for a standard cartidge, like 7mm-08, they would have to open the rails to allow the much fatter WSM case to feed into the chamber.
If this was done, which may not have been the case, and they removed too much metal from the rails allowing a wider gap, that can cause your cartidges jumping up from the magazine too soon. Remove your bolt and look down into the receiver and you will see that the rails have a taper. Smaller gap in rear and gap get larger towards the front. This to allow the cartidge to jump up from the magazine at about the half way mark for proper feeding into the barrel chamber.
When I was converting Mauser 98 rifles from 8mm to magnum calibers, I would have to slightly open the rails to allow better feeding. Sometimes I also had to remove metal from the receiver directly below the rails to prevent the cartidges from jumping up out of the magazine due to the larger dia. belt that magnum cartidges have on the case. This would allow the cartidge to set further under the rail and stay in place until moved forward by the bolt.
Bottom line is you payed for a custom rifle that cost you big bucks. You have the right to expect perfect operation of that rifle. Just for your knowledge, those short fat WSM calibers are noted to be finkey feeders and everything must be perfect for reliable feeding. I have heard complaints on the factory rifles not feeding right with those WSM calibers every now and then.

Call them up and let them know about it, if they are a reputable company, they will make it right to keep from taking a hit on their reputation and product. You might want to load up 4 dummy rounds, no powder or primer, and send that in with the rifle for them to use as a control to get perfect feeding.

RELH

LAST EDITED ON Apr-14-14 AT 09:14PM (MST)[p]I'm sure you're starting the shells out on the right side of the follower when loading the magazine. If not that could be the issue or if you unloaded the gun by using the hinged floorplate you may not have the follower sitting on the spring properly in the mag box. If it sits too high or binds or is wrong follower, it can cause feeding issues. I hope you get things worked out but look at these things and what RELH suggested. They probably didn't have any feeding issues when they tested the gun after your returned it and sent you some rounds to prove it but something isn't right. Good luck.

I see what you mean by the rails. It looks to me that it prematurely pops up and out of the rails. I say this when compared to other rifles I have.
Each time the rifle has been shipped back to me they place a job ticket in the box. The first job ticket says "increased follower travel" the second job ticket stated "installed new mag spring" when it came back. The feeding is getting better, but far from perfect.
I am glad that I have video proof of the issue that has been emailed to them each time.
I spoke with Nosler today. Politely, I told them it needs to be fixed this time, or I want a full refund. He agreed that I would get a refund or a new rifle. Also I demanded that this 3rd time around I would not stand for it taking 5 weeks to fix. He assured me that it would be pushed to front of the line.

I want it to be noted that Nosler has been very good and has not hesitated to make things right by me. The service has been top notch, minus not getting the rifle fixed yet. They absolutely stand behind their product. All this a side, this does not lessen the frustrating experience I have had.

Thanks for the replys. We will see what happens...

Sounds like they are going to give you good customer service. When it is done, come back and let us know what happen. I have a funny feeling they will make it right and we need to hear the good reports as well as the bad ones to better judge a company by it's customer service.

RELH

Blazing- Im sure Nosler will take care of you! Seems to me that the mag box might also need some tweaking. Good to hear they are willing to make it right.
Just curious How does it shoot?

Oh boy it's a shooter! Fit and finish is incredible as well.
I have only thrown 2 boxes of factory 150 grain ballistic tips (only because that's all I could find at the time) I am also by no means a rifleman, as I would rather spend my time behind a bow. But this rifle was sub moa when I did my part, all with factory rounds too!
I'm very excited to try out my 150 grain accubond LRs. It only took me well over a year to find all the reloading components. Now, just waiting on the rifle...........

Well a quick update... Sent the rifle in 3 weeks ago, still no word. I called them last Thursday and had to leave a polite message. Called again today, only to get the answering machine again. Left a message, but this time I was not as polite.

Here is where it stands. I received a call saying they could not duplicate the problem no matter how hard they tried. They sent the rifle back for me to try to get it to fail. Within only a few attempts It spits one round out, and a few cycles later it jams.
They said if I was not content with the rifle they would issue me a refund.
I asked about a new rifle build from scratch and they said no, that essentially it would be the exact same build and components and would not fix the unknown problem. I do not understand this. As this would mean all the .270 shorts they produce would have feeding issues.
Either way, tomorrow I'll ask again for a complete rebuild, or my money back.

Any suggestions on a good gun builder?

http://www.longriflesinc.com/

Chad built my rifle and one for a friend. Give him a call. You won't be dissapointed
Wes

LAST EDITED ON May-13-14 AT 12:41PM (MST)[p]

Now you know they had more than one person test the firearm in their shop NUMEROUS TIMES. Fully trained gunsmiths and hunters all. I'd take the refund and move on because there's something not right in this and I have no idea what the hell it is, but something's amiss.

Take the money, and get you another gun, you'll be happier and so will they. Having worked in the custom gun business I can tell you that that isn't the only .270 WSM they've built and usually when you have issues it shows up in most of the guns you build. You may have an action with a feed rail issue but given that they've had the gun back several times, taken it apart and examined it, replaced followers, springs and mag boxes it should have surfaced with multiple operators functioning the gun multiple times. Given that their model 48 was only chambered in one cartridge the .270 WSM originally, I would think they could make them work and have more than a few satisfied customers in that chambering. I'm not saying it's your fault or operator error but it's time to just move on.

The Nosler action is a push feed design and not controlled feed and given the case design on the WSM it can lead to issues if everything's not right. In some cases in a push feed action if you short stroke the action even unknowingly and the case loses contact with the bolt or feed rails, follower etc. these types of issues can arise. If the feeding cycle is interrupted the case can move to a different position within the action itself and the case won't contact the feed ramp at the correct angle which can cause the action to not feed properly ( a case is round so it will roll toward the side it's canted too once it exits the feed rails). In some actions canting the action can cause the same effect as the case rolls to a different location not optimal for feeding, short stroking an action can also cause issues . That's why some mag box designs feed the cartridge in the center even when staggered. Gravity, canting. feed rail resistance, follower design and case design all play a large part in getting any push feed action to align the cartridge to the feed ramp. Interrupt that cycle and even the best feeding actions may fail.

Guns either work or they don't has been my experience having worked in the weapons business over the years and sometimes you build one that isn't quite right and never ever will be...... Give it back to them on their dime and let them figure it out you deserve to have one that works every time you cycle the action.

Sounds to me like you're short stroking it..throw that SOBin bolt like you mean it.
CRF will not solve this problem either, short stoking a CRF will jam them up tighter than a nuns...

Reddog, it does not sound like short storking. He stated that when he topped the magazine off, then would try to chamber the first round. Instead of feeding into the chamber, the round would jump up early out of the mag and out of the rifle.
That would be a problem with the bolt rails not containing the cartidge and having a early release of the cartidge.
It can also be caused by incorrect magazine follower for that paticular cartidge.

RELH

cant believe they cant duplicate it when he sends it back, I know what you are saying and have delt with it lots of times..

A few minor tweeks of the mag box shouldt be lost on the gunsmiths at Nosler..i'd hope not anyway ha.

Trust me, they at nosler are as frustrated with it as I am.
I spoke with brad at cross canyon arms yesterday, great guy by the way.
He is very confident he can fix it. Thinks it's the follower by my discription of the problem. He offered to look at it and tell me his thoughts. I think I'll run it up to him and have him look it over. Based off his opinion I'll make my final desicion.

Thanks guys for the help.

LAST EDITED ON May-14-14 AT 10:26AM (MST)[p]I'm thinking that they may have a magazine that's not deep enough which effects the stagger, the same condition would exist with a follower that's sits too high in the magazine. Since they make their own actions who ever built the gun may have ground off the mag box for cosmetic reasons(stock depth). They took it apart and put it back together many times and it's easy to overlook it since they know the mag depth fits that stock and used the same mag box. Conversely like RELH said initially they may have taken a little more material off the feed rails on this action when it was machined allowing the cartridge to jump the rails. If there was some slack in the holder when machined it's easy to do and visually looks the same. There is some hand fitting of parts on these guns do to tighter tolerances and accuracy concerns. A little here a little there and it all adds up to the perfect storm.

Now Blazingsaddles are you using new cartridges or resized brass to this guns chamber when it happens. New brass is usually smaller in size to be able to fit most chambers off the shelf. They use new brass and if you are experiencing the issue with resized it adds to the issue. They can't duplicate it but you can do it. Believe me they have worked that action at all different speeds and using different parts and can't duplicate your issue. It's something along these lines and I'd bet you that it's something crazy like this. These guns are made to tighter tolerances and dimensionally something is different which is causing the issue. I'll be curious to see how it plays out. Good luck!!

Just for fun: Try this take a washer and put it on each screw between your stock and floorplate increasing the magazine depth. function test it with your DUMMY ammo. Doing this will allow more room in the stagger which will allow the cartridges to lay against the sides of the mag box which will allow the rails to work as designed. It's a long shot but I think RELH & I are on the right track and your gunsmith seems to concur.

Bosk,

All shells tested have been new, out of the box. The nickle plated rounds I bought fail much much more frequently than the custom rounds that Nosler sent me to test.
As far as the washer idea, I get what your saying, but on this rifle I do not have a floor plate. It's top load only.
I agree with what you sated earlier, get my money back and move on to another rifle. It either works or does not. If it were a simple common fix, they would have caught it by now.
Already made a few calls to different rifle builders today!

Sounds like it got inletted too deep and the magazine depth isn't sufficient too allow you to put all the cartridges into the magazine which relates to dimensions. In any case you made the right decision and get you something that works and enjoy it!

Pierce Engineering builds a nice gun and isn't priced too differently than what you had. Give them a call you won't be disappointed. They build some great actions for the $$$.

Pierce TI's are the cats ass!