Caliber Advice Needed

Ltsheets

Very Active Member
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1,127
So here's the story. I have a 300 WSM that I'm going to turn into a semi custom gun in Jan most likely. Due to it being a WSM, my only logical options are to keep it a 300 or turn it into a 270 WSM. I also have plans to get a full custom built by this time next year. It will be my first fully custom gun. Between these 2 guns, I want to be able to hunt anything in North America. I want them both to be light enough to pack with the fully custom being no more than 7.5 lbs including glass. I'm thinking that if I rebarrel and keep the 300 WSM that I'll go 280AI or something similar for the full custom. If I rebarrel to a 270 WSM, I'm thinking of making the full custom a 300 Win Mag. What do you guys think about these potential caliber combos and/or do you have other recommendations? Thanks.
 
If I wanted a one size fits all, I would probably go with a 7mm WSM for the semi custom rebarrel. With 180 gr bullets it will be a great long range setup for anything up to and including elk.

For the full custom, I would go a different route. Going with a similar performing cartridge any WSM and a 280 AI are so close in performance seems like a waste to me. Unless you have a large variety of guns to choose from, why not cover different portions of the spectrum? Or go with a full custom in the configuration you will use for most of your hunting. You can then turn the existing WSM into something for very large game or some other niche like ultra light elk gun, long range pronghorn gun, etc.

When it all comes down to it, you have to choose what you want.
 
If the 7wsm brass was easier to find, It would probably be my first choice, but it seems to be a dying caliber. My plan is that whatever I get built as the full custom will be my go to rifle. I want one of them to be easier to pack and one to be more comfortable to shoot. I want the full custom to be in a caliber that will at least take an animal up to an Elk size regardless of what caliber I choose on the WSM.

>If I wanted a one size
>fits all, I would probably
>go with a 7mm WSM
>for the semi custom rebarrel.
> With 180 gr bullets
>it will be a great
>long range setup for anything
>up to and including elk.
>
>
>For the full custom, I would
>go a different route.
>Going with a similar performing
>cartridge any WSM and a
>280 AI are so close
>in performance seems like a
>waste to me. Unless
>you have a large variety
>of guns to choose from,
>why not cover different portions
>of the spectrum? Or
>go with a full custom
>in the configuration you will
>use for most of your
>hunting. You can then
>turn the existing WSM into
>something for very large game
>or some other niche like
>ultra light elk gun, long
>range pronghorn gun, etc.
>
>When it all comes down to
>it, you have to choose
>what you want.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-16-14 AT 10:24PM (MST)[p]From one of your other threads, you already have a .257 Weatherby Mag. If you stay with the 300 WSM, seems to me that you have the bases covered quite well. One for Deer sized game and one for anything bigger.

A guy can find lots of reasons for another rifle in a different cartridge. I think i would like a 25-06AI or a 6.5X 270WSM but i already have rifles that will stone anything that those new ones would and for me in my situation, any money spent on additional guns is money taken away from future hunts.

edit: being we are talking cartridges and what to have, i'll share the viewpoint of a guy that i very much respected as both a marksman and a hunter. He shot at the bench, off hand, and at moving targets, like thrown golf balls, just about every single day. The guy was constantly reloading and his normal was to be at the range before 6:AM to insure that he had no winds to deal with. I branded him the nickname "shootist" for good reason!

He only had 4 rifles. His first three were all Kimber of Oregon Grand Americans with matching highly figured wood stocks. Yes, he had tinkered some with each to get them to shoot as he demanded but they were all three exceptional shooters. 22lr, .223, and 300WSM. a matching trio of finer, better looking and shooting rifles would be hard to come by.

His 4th rifle was his Baby, a Brown Precision Custom in 300 Weatherby.

The guy could afford more if he chose to and he had gone thru plenty of different irons in his day but for the 4-5 years that he lived next door to me, those were what he felt that he had all the bases covered.

Joey

"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Well, free advice is worth what you pay for it. but.....

If I were you , I'd use your action to build a 270 WSM and I'd build your full custom in 300 win mag as you were thinking.

I'd also build them as light as possible you won't regret it. I have lots of guns, but my 270 WBY and my 300 win mag fill 90% of my hunting needs and they'd do 100% of it if need be. if I had it all to do over again I'd do excatly the same thing.


Along the same lines of discussion, I hope you have a good gunsmith picked out. good doesn't mean a nice guy, been there done that. if he says you don't need the best barrel or doesn't use a tight chamber reamer find someone else. take my word for it it's cheaper to do it right the first time.



















Stay thirsty my friends
 
LT- I agree with 440! Make sure you find a very good gunsmith and use good parts.

What brand rifle is the 300WSM? Id build a 6.5SAUM and shoot 130/140gr bullets.
 
Thanks guys. This guy is as good as they come IMO as a smith. He's built several rifles for Craig Boddington and comes with a lot of high recommendations. I'm not concerned about the quality of his work at all. Do you think there's an adv of having a 300 win mag as opposed to a 300wsm?
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-14 AT 03:29PM (MST)[p]250-3000, .257 Roberts, 25-06, 257 Weatherby mag... each are different cartridges or chamberings but they are all the same "caliber".... .257

Same with 30M-1 carbine, 30-30, 300 Savage, 30-06, 300WSM, 300 Ultra mag. all are the same caliber... .308

It's a good thing to know and use if you want to talk guns to guys who talk guns.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-14 AT 03:27PM (MST)[p]I'm just hackin' on ya man. Don't take offense since I could follow your caliber/cartridge question... sort of.

If I were you, and could wave my magic wand, I'd have a 270 WSM cartridge and a 300 win or 300 Ultra mag cartridge (for your kill-all custom gun).

That would give you about the best of the .277 and .308 calibers.

(kind of what 440-6pac said)

Zeke
 
There is a velocity advantage with the 300 win mag, 100-200 FPS.

The 300 WSM is a good round and looks to be here to stay. but the 300 win mag can do anything it can do better. I'd go with the 300 win mag if it were me, it's as popular today as it was in 1963 and for good reason.

Another nice thing is if you like the 70 action you can either buy anolder used controlled feed rifle for the action or a pre-64 30-06 action for about the same money and do an easy conversion to 300 win mag. no better than the newer action, but you have the pre-64 cool factor in your custom.










Stay thirsty my friends
 
"There is a velocity advantage with the 300 win mag, 100-200 FPS."

Not necessarily! I just looked up what is available in Factory Ammo from Federal Ammo Co.

180 gr Nosler Partition
300WSM......2980 FPS
300 Win Mag.2960 Fps

165gr Federal Fusion ammo
300WSM.......3100 Fps
300 Win Mag..3080

So it is documented that in at least some Factory Ammo that is available, the 300WSM actually has more velocity with the exact same bullet.

One might argue that there is a advantage of the Win Mag in reloading. But then again, there is the advantages that others prefer in the short action cartridge.

In my opinion, if there is an advantage of one over the other, it is so small as to not really make that much of a difference, especially to the animal you plan to shoot with it.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Over my Ohler the 300 win mag factory loads will outpace the 300 WSM 99% of the time with factory loads. like Weatherby factory loads the WSM seldom does as advertised.

For reloading there is no question the 300 win mag outperforms. you'll stick a bolt on a WSM trying to compete. we've done it.

I agree, the difference isn't substantial. but all things equal I'll take the 300 win mag.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
No offense taken. Just wanted to make sure I was talking correctly and now I know the specific terminology to avoid confustion in the future. I the top should read cartrige in this case. Thanks.

>LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-14
>AT 03:27?PM (MST)

>
>I'm just hackin' on ya man.
>Don't take offense since I
>could follow your caliber/cartridge question...
>sort of.
>
>If I were you, and could
>wave my magic wand, I'd
>have a 270 WSM cartridge
>and a 300 win or
>300 Ultra mag cartridge (for
>your kill-all custom gun).
>
>That would give you about the
>best of the .277 and
>.308 calibers.
>
>(kind of what 440-6pac said)
>
>Zeke
 
I'm glad to hear a reloader's take on the differences. I'm a reloader but I'm new to it. I had figured that with the larger case, that the win mag probably had a higher performance ceiling but I hadn't heard that for sure yet. This alone makes me lean towards a 270 WSM and 300 Win Mag combo of rifles. It would just suck a bit to waste everything I have already set up for WSM and I do enjoy the short action. It's going to be a tough decision.

>
>
>
>Over my Ohler the 300 win
>mag factory loads will outpace
>the 300 WSM 99% of
>the time with factory loads.
>like Weatherby factory loads the
>WSM seldom does as advertised.
>
>
>For reloading there is no question
>the 300 win mag outperforms.
>you'll stick a bolt on
>a WSM trying to compete.
>we've done it.
>
>I agree, the difference isn't substantial.
> but all things equal
>I'll take the 300 win
>mag.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Stay thirsty my friends
 
I think this one falls in the same grouping as the 7WSM. I think that it's a dying cartrige and I don't want to spend that kind of money on a cartridge that might not be around much longer.

>How about a 325 WSM, Didn't
>see that thrown out here.
>
 
The 325 wsm cartridge is quite a fine little killer but the stats are just not there to justify looking that way for either of your rifles. I own one and shot it in Africa on a couple handfuls of critters. My wife killed a monster bull elk with it and it shoots really well or it wouldn't be in my stable, but.......I agree, it's not one of the "popular" kids.
I'm glad I have plenty of brass.
Zeke
 
44o said in response to my findings,"Over my Ohler the 300 win mag factory loads will outpace the 300 WSM 99% of the time with factory loads. like Weatherby factory loads the WSM seldom does as advertised."

LOL So you have now been doing studies on 300WSM factory ammo from all the different Co's and then comparing that with studies on factory ammo velocity from the 300 Win Mag Ammo Co's and your studies show that the Win mag wins 99% of the time.

Horse crap, His 99% theory is nothing but lies, and Laughable at best. i just showed him one example, the only one i looked up but it must be that 1% of the time where the WSM is faster. Right!

440 has a habit here to promote the old favorites he likes. He can smooth talk with the best of them but caution to take whatever he says here with a serious grain of salt!

No doubt the Win Mag is a hoss cartridge but the Shootist, from post #3 above, ran his 300WSM 165 grn. loadings pushing 3300FPS, not from the longer Win Mag barrels but a 24" tube, with no sticking bolts, and fly speck accuracy. The 300WSM can hang in there in any practical sense.

As far as the 270WSM and a 300WIN mag/300WSM combo, nobody here has put down more print on the 270WSM than i have. It's been my "go to" favorite cartridge for years and in a search of the past pages you would find that i maybe even talked about it too much. To me, i don't care for it as a cartridge just for the smaller stuff when looking for a two rifle set-up. I believe that it is way more cartridge than needed for game like antelope and deer. In the end, i sold mine, i other similar rifles and got to where i didn't like setting down and shooting it because of the recoil and accompanying muzzle blast. It might not qualify as a beast but plenty of guys claim it's all they want to handle and i'm in that group. For me, the 270WSM is at the higher end of what i'll hunt with.

If me, i'd go with something comfortable to practice a lot with and still get the job done, like your 257 Weatherby or a 7mm-08 there are many good examples, on medium sized critters. Then you could go the 270WSM, 7MM Rem Mag, 300 mag, either the Win or WSM, as your bigger gun. To me, there's just not a lot of difference between the 270WSM with good loadings and the regular 30 Cal mags. A decent shot with any of them will get the job done on anything i care to shoot.

Anyway, just some more ideas.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-18-14 AT 02:25PM (MST)[p]LT- My custom 270WSM is built off a M70 and I love it. The M70 has more OAL in the magazine so loading heavy bullets is what I would plan on. I would load up some dummy rounds and have it throated for whatever bullet you choose. I have run the 150ABLR,150VLD and 165 Matrix in my rifle. All shoot very well and are a hammer on game. If you need any help let me know.
 
How's the accuracy with those 150gr bullets and what twist do you have to stabilize them? Also, what MV's are you getting with those 150s?

>LAST EDITED ON Nov-18-14
>AT 02:25?PM (MST)

>
>LT- My custom 270WSM is built
>off a M70 and I
>love it. The M70 has
>more OAL in the magazine
>so loading heavy bullets is
>what I would plan on.
>I would load up some
>dummy rounds and have it
>throated for whatever bullet you
>choose. I have run the
>150ABLR,150VLD and 165 Matrix in
>my rifle. All shoot very
>well and are a hammer
>on game. If you need
>any help let me know.
>
 
Good 'ol sage he can't get along very long . here's a tip for you sage, most reloading manuals list cartridges from slowest to fastest in order of a given bullet caliber. if you own a manual look and see which comes first, the 300 WSM or 300 Win mag. I'll bet you the 300 WBY follows the 300 Win Mag.

A chronograph is another way, but you don't seem to like that.


No I haven't tried EVERY factory ammo of either cartridge. but enough of them. from dozens of trys 99%, ok maybe 98%, the 300 win mag was faster. up to 100 FPS. with factory loads.

I have my own private range , for some reason I have lots of friends once they find that out. so I see lots of guns and lots of loads , I used to spend lots of time at it. not so much anymore. so yes, I've tested quite a few.

LTsheets, In my opinion you could choose either and get what it sounds like you are looking for. I just happen to prefer the 300 win mag for velocity, action choices and dependable feeding.

I'll bow out here and let sage give you his infinite wisdom on everything. he won't let anything go so I will so this doesn't degrade anymore. good luck on your build and give that pre-64 action some thought it wouldn't cost much more.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
>How's the accuracy with those 150gr
>bullets and what twist do
>you have to stabilize them?
> Also, what MV's are
>you getting with those 150s?
>

Accuracy is under 1/2MOA at 3075. I would run a 9 twist for sure!
 
Bla, Bla, Bla, The crony i use is just fine thank you. You are right about one thing, i'm not going to let you pull numbers out your fanny and i'm not going to let you discredit other cartridges than the ones that you have.

The question asked was not about hand loads and i quoted published data from the ammo manufacture that actually surprised me but then you know better. Wrong!

It's great that you too have your own range as i do, mine only goes to 600 yards, but it's the numbers that you make up or twist around that i have and will continue to have problems with.

In the end, whatever Lt goes with is up to him and i'll only suggest or say what i'd do. Two things are certain though, there is no huge advantage of a 300 Win Mag over a 300WSM but there are certain advantages of the WSM over the Win Mag and that's why it has become and will continue to be such a popular cartridge.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Well guys...I'm pretty close to making the decision to stick with the 300WSM on the rebarrel project in a couple months. I'm going to try and build it as light as possible within budget. The next decision will be which stock and to flute or not. I'm thinking about saving some coin buy going with a bell and carlson or hs precision and putting the extra cash into also getting the barrel fluted, which I wasn't going to do in the first place.
 
Lt, my apologies to you if getting off topic a bit. 4 years ago, 440 was certain that my 270WSM was only slightly better and much closer velocity wise to a 270 Win than his beloved 270 Weatherby. He probably or should now know how wrong that he was but we went round and round.

Same ol shyte, different day! :)

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Well....contradictory to my own post, after reading another 270wsm w/ 150gr bullet thread, I broke out the ballistics calculator and was pretty blown away by how close a 270WSM with a 150gr AB LR at 3000 is to a 300WSM 180gr AB in energy at 500yds. I'm starting to think that if I didn't already have all the brass and dies for the 300wsm that I would've already decided to rechamber to a 270wsm rather than keeping a 300wsm. I'm starting to feel like that for a light mtn rifle, the 270wsm is a better choice and I wouldn't have to deal with as much recoil. I know there's really no wrong choice here but this is a tough decision!!

>Well guys...I'm pretty close to making
>the decision to stick with
>the 300WSM on the rebarrel
>project in a couple months.
> I'm going to try
>and build it as light
>as possible within budget.
>The next decision will be
>which stock and to flute
>or not. I'm thinking
>about saving some coin buy
>going with a bell and
>carlson or hs precision and
>putting the extra cash into
>also getting the barrel fluted,
>which I wasn't going to
>do in the first place.
>
 
Lt
If you are going to build a lightweight rifle I would for sure use the BC stock and choose the 270wsm. I'd run a 24" 9 twist number 3 contour and flute it. Have it throated for the 150. If you need a few bullets let me know.
Also you could save a few $ by picking up a used stock. The extreme weather m70 stock is made by BC and very nice. Its what I have on my rifle as well.
 
Do you guys think you can get all the potential accuracy, and speed out of a 270 wsm shooting 150 grain bullet in a Remington 700 short action? Would it be better to base it off a SAUM case?
 
Brag
Building a wsm on a 700sa the accuracy would be based off the gunsmith doing the work. If it were me I'd run a centerfeed Wyatt's box and new PTG bottom metal to gain oal.
The saum case is very efficient and finally some good brass is becoming available. The 6.5saum is awesome!
 

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