I am wondering what is the expected life of a stock stainless steel barrel. I bought a Ruger M77 MKII stainless in 2000. I have shot mainly federal premium ammo. I generally shoot 2-3 boxes of ammo per year sighting in for hunting season. I have never shot more than 1 box during hunting season. Doing the math I have shot approximately 3-5 boxes of ammo through this rifle over the past 16 years or 1000-1600 rounds total. This fall I began experiencing accuracy problems. This rifle has held 1 inch groups consistently until this year. Now it seems like 3 inch groups are the norm and the point of impact appears to be moving a little. I have killed deer and antelope over 300 yards with this rifle but I am beginning to have doubts about this rifle going forward. It has a Leupold VX-III scope on it which I mounted 6-8 years ago. Everything appears to be tight. Has anyone seen this type of wear in a barrel causing deterioration of accuracy after 1000 rounds? I don't have a bore scope but am considering taking it to a gunsmith to check for internal wear or damage to the barrel. I am also considering sending the scope back to Leupold for a cleaning and checkup. Besides checking the mounts, I'm not sure what else to check. I will say old age (me, not the rifle) could also be causing problems. Thanks for any insight.
Barrel life question
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BIGJOHNT
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You didn't say what caliber you are shooting. But you should get much more the 3000 rounds down a stock barrel with store bought ammo . I would say you need to clean your barrel with something a little stronger then Hoppes # 9. You could just have a fouled barrel. Then I we look towards your scope and sending it in to Leupold.
Zeke
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I read your report but didn't notice what cartridge you're shooting. This will make a difference but unless you've repeatedly shot it while the barrel is hot, it shouldn't be shot out at your round-count with any conventional cartridge.
CLEANING!!!
Cleaning issues are more often to blame. Either you need to clean more thoroughly to remove the copper and carbon and start over or you've damaged the barrel by inappropriate cleaning methods. The former is correctable but the latter is not.
Shooting out a big game rifle is considered somewhat difficult since the round-counts are usually much lower than a var-targ rifle but it can be done. You can expect 2-5000 rounds down the bore before you see a significant drop in accuracy but this is only a guide and not a hard and fast rule. Much depends on how hot the barrel becomes and then continued firing since the metal become malleable and will erode quickly with subsequent shots.
There may very well be a different issue (damaged crown, loose screws, stock contact, junk scope etc) but this might be of value going forward.
Zeke
CLEANING!!!
Cleaning issues are more often to blame. Either you need to clean more thoroughly to remove the copper and carbon and start over or you've damaged the barrel by inappropriate cleaning methods. The former is correctable but the latter is not.
Shooting out a big game rifle is considered somewhat difficult since the round-counts are usually much lower than a var-targ rifle but it can be done. You can expect 2-5000 rounds down the bore before you see a significant drop in accuracy but this is only a guide and not a hard and fast rule. Much depends on how hot the barrel becomes and then continued firing since the metal become malleable and will erode quickly with subsequent shots.
There may very well be a different issue (damaged crown, loose screws, stock contact, junk scope etc) but this might be of value going forward.
Zeke
hounddawgs
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10k rounds is what you should be able to get without any problems or wear on a stock barrel and stock ammo. Stock ammo can change to a little maybe try another box or even another brand
Zeke
Long Time Member
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>10k rounds is what you should
>be able to get without
>any problems or wear on
>a stock barrel and stock
>ammo. Stock ammo can change
>to a little maybe try
>another box or even another
>brand
I very seriously doubt a guy will get 10K out of a magnum without diminished accuracy and at this point we have to assume something big since the OP didn't disclose that info.
I've "cleaned" out a couple (years ago) and shot out several. It's pretty easy to do with a var-targ type rifle if a guy shoots a bunch. I've got 3 in the safe right now that need new tubes ranging from a 257 Bob ai to a 338 RUM!
Zeke
>be able to get without
>any problems or wear on
>a stock barrel and stock
>ammo. Stock ammo can change
>to a little maybe try
>another box or even another
>brand
I very seriously doubt a guy will get 10K out of a magnum without diminished accuracy and at this point we have to assume something big since the OP didn't disclose that info.
I've "cleaned" out a couple (years ago) and shot out several. It's pretty easy to do with a var-targ type rifle if a guy shoots a bunch. I've got 3 in the safe right now that need new tubes ranging from a 257 Bob ai to a 338 RUM!
Zeke
El_Matador
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Barrel life can be somewhat subjective, since most guys who keep track of things are benchrest shooters. They change out barrels when accuracy drops off only slightly. For match grade barrels you'll see anywhere from 800 to 3000 rounds before accuracy starts degrading, depending on what cartridge you shoot and how hot you run the barrel. Even then its not going to be a 2 MOA change though. I would guess you have some carbon buildup around the throat area that's messing with your accuracy. This can be difficult to remove - try googling carbon ring removal for more info, or have a gunsmith take a look with his borescope to give recommendations. I would also check your action screws to make sure everything is torqued down correctly. These screws can come loose over time and cause accuracy problems.
Thanks for all the replies. I appreciate your input. The rifle is a .270. I have shot mainly federal premium trophy bonded tips and before that the trophy bonded bear claw which federal discontinued in .270. I thought about the cleaning issue but I rarely go more than 20 rounds without running hoppes and a brass brush through the barrel. I also use a bore snake after 5-6 rounds. I generally shoot 2 or 3 rounds then walk to target and check results so I am not shooting an overly hot barrel. I thought the life of a barrel should be well over 1000 rounds so thanks for confirming this for me.
oregonmuley
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LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-16 AT 02:44PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-16 AT 02:42?PM (MST)
I agree with mtmuley a barrel really doesn't need to be cleaned that much, you are probably doing more harm then good. You need to let the barrel tell you when it needs to be cleaned. Unless your barrel builds up copper really fast no need to clean it until accuracy goes bad. I used to be like that now I might clean my guns every 100 rounds or so or at the end of the hunting season.
As far as how long a barrel should last, if you aren't shooting hot loads or toasting your barrel a .270 should last easy 3k-5k or more. Its not known as a barrel burner like some of the 6MM's are like the .243.
Maybe double check your scope like you mentioned. They do go south on occasion and if you send it in they can check that. ALso check to make sure scope rings/bases are still tight. Check the actions screws, did you remove the barreled and then put it back in?? Might also double check the stock - is something binding someplace or causing pressure?? All could effect accuracy.
I agree with mtmuley a barrel really doesn't need to be cleaned that much, you are probably doing more harm then good. You need to let the barrel tell you when it needs to be cleaned. Unless your barrel builds up copper really fast no need to clean it until accuracy goes bad. I used to be like that now I might clean my guns every 100 rounds or so or at the end of the hunting season.
As far as how long a barrel should last, if you aren't shooting hot loads or toasting your barrel a .270 should last easy 3k-5k or more. Its not known as a barrel burner like some of the 6MM's are like the .243.
Maybe double check your scope like you mentioned. They do go south on occasion and if you send it in they can check that. ALso check to make sure scope rings/bases are still tight. Check the actions screws, did you remove the barreled and then put it back in?? Might also double check the stock - is something binding someplace or causing pressure?? All could effect accuracy.
Cahunter805
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LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-16 AT 03:30PM (MST)[p]All above advice is spot on. Your barrel will last 3-5k if properly taken care of.
Ruger factory rings aren't the greatest for staying tight. Also check the action screws. Is it a wood stock or plastic?
Get yourself a good copper cleaner and nylon brush. Or get a can of wipeout foaming cleaner. I suspect copper fouling. Are you cleaning from the muzzle? Could be a damaged crown.
Ruger factory rings aren't the greatest for staying tight. Also check the action screws. Is it a wood stock or plastic?
Get yourself a good copper cleaner and nylon brush. Or get a can of wipeout foaming cleaner. I suspect copper fouling. Are you cleaning from the muzzle? Could be a damaged crown.
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-16
>AT 07:18?PM (MST)
>
>I suspect your barrel needs a
>good cleaning. I use bore
>scrubber let it soak for
>20 minutes or so run
>a few patches then repeat.
>This process might take few
>hours.
>
>7 Mag
The OP cleans every 20 rounds. mtmuley
>AT 07:18?PM (MST)
>
>I suspect your barrel needs a
>good cleaning. I use bore
>scrubber let it soak for
>20 minutes or so run
>a few patches then repeat.
>This process might take few
>hours.
>
>7 Mag
The OP cleans every 20 rounds. mtmuley
Soj51hopeful
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LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-16 AT 09:47PM (MST)[p]Just to clarify what a few other guys have said it sounds like copper fouling to me. Hopes #9 isn't a strong enough copper solvent its more the powder residue solvent. Get a designated COPPER SOLVENT to add to your cleaning process along with the #9. I use sweets 7.62. Go on midways website look it up.
https://m.youtube.com/weatch?v=ymyw7CLFWOk
Or copy and paste this.
https://m.youtube.com/weatch?v=ymyw7CLFWOk
Or copy and paste this.
Thanks for all the replies. I do push cleaning patches from the chamber to the muzzle and remove at muzzle so the gunk is not pulled back down barrel. I also have used a couple of different kinds of copper cleaner. I really don't think cleaning is the issue but I am gonna give it a good cleaning soon since that would be the easiest thing to check first. If cleaning doesn't help then the next step will be to sent scope to Leupold for a check-up. Also, the stock is the OEM skeleton stock. I made sure the barrel was free floating when I bought it. Had to remove a little bit of material with dremal tool. I replaced the stock trigger with a Timney trigger several years ago. The action screws are tight and the rifle has been shooting fine until this past summer. I killed two deer with it in November but at pretty close range. Thanks again for your comments. This will give me something to play with over the winter.
Cahunter805
Long Time Member
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Do you have another scope? I'd mount it and go shoot and see what happens.
pookiebar
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Sounds to me like you clean it too much. Especially if your running a brass brush down the barrel. You likely damaged your rifling with the cleaning rod and/or the brush.
You really shouldn't be able to shoot out a 270 barrel. Especially with factory ammo. Heck I have a friend that shoots his grandpas ackley improved 270 and he shoots every weekend with some hot loads. Never had an issue with the barrel burning out.
You really shouldn't be able to shoot out a 270 barrel. Especially with factory ammo. Heck I have a friend that shoots his grandpas ackley improved 270 and he shoots every weekend with some hot loads. Never had an issue with the barrel burning out.
Zeke
Long Time Member
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OP,
I don't know all your cleaning habits but to ensure long barrel life you should be using a bore-guide and never let the rod drag across the bore at the crown. You accomplish this by never letting the jag or brush fully exit your bore.
As much as you're cleaning, right or wrong, damage can be cause more quickly than all the shooting you're doing.
Ive seen more accuracy go south because if crown damage than almost anything else. Guys persist in leaving their rifles muzzle down on the floor matts of their truck and even the deepest muzzle crown will get ruined. This can be cured by having a competent smith re-crown and remove the dinged muzzle.
Just a couple nuggets going forward. Most things I've learned came by the "hard way" since back in the day we didn't have all the resources right at our fingertips.
Zeke
I don't know all your cleaning habits but to ensure long barrel life you should be using a bore-guide and never let the rod drag across the bore at the crown. You accomplish this by never letting the jag or brush fully exit your bore.
As much as you're cleaning, right or wrong, damage can be cause more quickly than all the shooting you're doing.
Ive seen more accuracy go south because if crown damage than almost anything else. Guys persist in leaving their rifles muzzle down on the floor matts of their truck and even the deepest muzzle crown will get ruined. This can be cured by having a competent smith re-crown and remove the dinged muzzle.
Just a couple nuggets going forward. Most things I've learned came by the "hard way" since back in the day we didn't have all the resources right at our fingertips.
Zeke
7
Active Member
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>>LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-16
>>AT 07:18?PM (MST)
>>
>>I suspect your barrel needs a
>>good cleaning. I use bore
>>scrubber let it soak for
>>20 minutes or so run
>>a few patches then repeat.
>>This process might take few
>>hours.
>>
>>7 Mag
>
>The OP cleans every 20 rounds.
>mtmuley
My point was it sounds like the barrel needs a good scrubbing not just a general cleaning. When ever I shot TBBC thru my 270 the barrel would be fouled worst than any other bullets I shot. As mentioned use a guide when ever you clean the barrel.
7 Mag
>>AT 07:18?PM (MST)
>>
>>I suspect your barrel needs a
>>good cleaning. I use bore
>>scrubber let it soak for
>>20 minutes or so run
>>a few patches then repeat.
>>This process might take few
>>hours.
>>
>>7 Mag
>
>The OP cleans every 20 rounds.
>mtmuley
My point was it sounds like the barrel needs a good scrubbing not just a general cleaning. When ever I shot TBBC thru my 270 the barrel would be fouled worst than any other bullets I shot. As mentioned use a guide when ever you clean the barrel.
7 Mag
Cahunter805
Long Time Member
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I'm with Zeke and others. The crown may be damaged from cleaning or somehow being hit. You can google or you tube how to touch up the crown with a brass screw and lapping compound. Had a buddy do this and have great results.
Like I stated earlier swap scopes with another proven scope and test it first. Good luck and keep us updated.
Like I stated earlier swap scopes with another proven scope and test it first. Good luck and keep us updated.
Ltsheets
Very Active Member
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- 1,127
If you mean you don't think fouling is the issue based on how much you've cleaned the rifle I could agree. However, over cleaning could still be the issue IMO if you're cleaning the barrel with a copper brush every 20 or so rounds like you mentioned earlier. I asked my gunsmith one time how many hunting rifle barrels he's seen that have been shot out. He said very very few. Said the majority of barrels he has to replace on rifles are not due to being shot out but due to being ruined by people cleaning too much incorrectly. Since then I've never used more than a patch and solvent in any of my barrels.
>Thanks for all the replies. I
>do push cleaning patches from
>the chamber to the muzzle
>and remove at muzzle so
>the gunk is not pulled
>back down barrel. I also
>have used a couple of
>different kinds of copper cleaner.
>I really don't think cleaning
>is the issue but I
>am gonna give it a
>good cleaning soon since that
>would be the easiest thing
>to check first. If cleaning
>doesn't help then the next
>step will be to sent
>scope to Leupold for a
>check-up. Also, the stock
>is the OEM skeleton stock.
>I made sure the barrel
>was free floating when I
>bought it. Had to remove
>a little bit of material
>with dremal tool. I replaced
>the stock trigger with a
>Timney trigger several years ago.
>The action screws are tight
>and the rifle has been
>shooting fine until this past
>summer. I killed two deer
>with it in November but
>at pretty close range. Thanks
>again for your comments. This
>will give me something to
>play with over the winter.
>
>Thanks for all the replies. I
>do push cleaning patches from
>the chamber to the muzzle
>and remove at muzzle so
>the gunk is not pulled
>back down barrel. I also
>have used a couple of
>different kinds of copper cleaner.
>I really don't think cleaning
>is the issue but I
>am gonna give it a
>good cleaning soon since that
>would be the easiest thing
>to check first. If cleaning
>doesn't help then the next
>step will be to sent
>scope to Leupold for a
>check-up. Also, the stock
>is the OEM skeleton stock.
>I made sure the barrel
>was free floating when I
>bought it. Had to remove
>a little bit of material
>with dremal tool. I replaced
>the stock trigger with a
>Timney trigger several years ago.
>The action screws are tight
>and the rifle has been
>shooting fine until this past
>summer. I killed two deer
>with it in November but
>at pretty close range. Thanks
>again for your comments. This
>will give me something to
>play with over the winter.
>
El_Matador
Active Member
- Messages
- 359
The good news is that most of the possible causes here are easy to eliminate. Checking scope and action screws is quick and easy. Removing all copper from the bore can take a bit of work but it's pretty straight forward. If you use an ammonia-based cleaner you'll be able to tell if there's still copper in there because the patches will come out blue. It should be easy to find info and products for removing copper. If its carbon fouling at the throat you'll need a way to look in there to verify it's all clean. This ring of carbon is extremely hard and will not come out with normal cleaning methods. You'll need something like boretech eliminator and a copper or brass brush mounted in a drill. Don't dismiss this as a possible cause, especially with how many rounds have been through your gun.
Since the accuracy problems started all of a sudden I really doubt the problem is a damaged bore from improper cleaning. Something like that would get worse over time. A damaged crown is a possibility but also very easy to check by looking at it.
Cleaning every 20 rounds may or may not be too much. A good quality bore only needs cleaning every 100-200 rounds or when accuracy starts to fall off. I had a factory Rem 700 that shot like crap after 10 shots if it wasn't cleaned though. I agree with others that its best not to clean until your rifle says its ready.
Since the accuracy problems started all of a sudden I really doubt the problem is a damaged bore from improper cleaning. Something like that would get worse over time. A damaged crown is a possibility but also very easy to check by looking at it.
Cleaning every 20 rounds may or may not be too much. A good quality bore only needs cleaning every 100-200 rounds or when accuracy starts to fall off. I had a factory Rem 700 that shot like crap after 10 shots if it wasn't cleaned though. I agree with others that its best not to clean until your rifle says its ready.
Zeke
Long Time Member
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>Thanks again. I hope to
>get time to check out
>your suggestions soon.
The good news here is that every remedy and idea is valid (IMHO) and worth a try. Lots of guys on here know a whole bunch and that's why I like this site. Great, helpful members!
A guy can never know too much or know it all!
Zeke
>get time to check out
>your suggestions soon.
The good news here is that every remedy and idea is valid (IMHO) and worth a try. Lots of guys on here know a whole bunch and that's why I like this site. Great, helpful members!
A guy can never know too much or know it all!
Zeke
