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IMR 4831 question
 
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muleymaddness
(1101 posts)
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Aug-20-17, 
01:08 PM (MST)
"IMR 4831 question"

I have a question about the above powder. How sensitive is it to temperature change? I'm loading for my 7mm Rem Mag and found a decent loading using this powder. I'm not 100% sold on the load yet, so that's why I'm asking my question now before I continue. Should I continue using the IMR 4831 or would you go with the Hodgdon line in something like H1000 or similar?

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  Table of Contents  

 Subject   Author   Message Date   ID 
 RE: IMR 4831 q...  Millsworks      Aug-20-17   1 
  RE: IMR 4831 q...  Cahunter805      Aug-21-17   2 
   RE: IMR 4831 q...  Zeke      Aug-22-17   3 
    RE: IMR 4831 q...  NoDoe      Aug-23-17   4 
     RE: IMR 4831 q...  muleymaddne...      Sep-03-17   5 
      RE: IMR 4831 q...  mtmuley      Sep-03-17   6 
       RE: IMR 4831 q...  OchocoKid      Sep-05-17   7 
        RE: IMR 4831 q...  lve2143      Dec-11-17   8 
         RE: IMR 4831 q...  Murr      Dec-12-17   9 
          RE: IMR 4831 q...  ofdscooby      Dec-12-17   10 
           RE: IMR 4831 q...  Millsworks      Dec-13-17   11 
            RE: IMR 4831 q...  Millsworks      Dec-13-17   12 
             RE: IMR 4831 q...  Zeke      Dec-14-17   13 
              RE: IMR 4831 q...  mtmuley      Dec-14-17   14 
               RE: IMR 4831 q...  Millsworks      Dec-14-17   15 
                RE: IMR 4831 q...  mtmuley      Dec-15-17   16 
          RE: IMR 4831 q...  lve2143      Dec-16-17   17 
           RE: IMR 4831 q...  Millsworks      Dec-16-17   18 
            RE: IMR 4831 q...  mightyhunter      Dec-23-17   19 
             RE: IMR 4831 q...  Millsworks      Jan-02-18   20 

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Millsworks
(285 posts)
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Aug-20-17, 
06:08 PM (MST)
1. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

Temp sincetivity is only a factor for serious bench shooters for repeated long shooting sessions. A guy that hunts in 80-90 degree one week then 30 below the next would need be worried some.
Otherwise it is no concern for the average hunter or even most target shooters.
If it makes you feel better than sure, go for a powder that advertises all temp resistance.

That being said, 4831 is a good powder in lots of calibers. But the 7 rem. mag. would perform better with several other out there.
H1000 is one that is probably gonna be a better performer. Reloader 22 ,23, or 25 also.

Most of the new powders are a temp resistant type. But only small difference for point of impact, and even then it is gonna have to be drastic temp difference from your zero conditions. Most wouldn't notice unless shooting past 400yrds.

Hope this helps. Though some consider a half inch change in point of impact drastic.

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Cahunter805
(2188 posts)
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Aug-21-17, 
11:52 PM (MST)
2. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

What size groups are you after? What bullet and speed? H1000 is a great powder for the 7RM. Great load density and speed. Retumbo also. 4831 should be decent but velocity might be slower.

What temp was your load development in and what do you plan to be hunting in?

To some myself included I want a temp stable load or at least minimal velocity swings.

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Zeke
(8395 posts)
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Aug-22-17, 
04:35 PM (MST)
3. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

Might want to try some IMR-7977
Zeke

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NoDoe
(402 posts)
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Aug-23-17, 
04:32 PM (MST)
4. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

H4831 works good f or me. Don

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muleymaddness
(1101 posts)
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Sep-03-17, 
03:20 PM (MST)
5. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

Thanks for the replies everyone. I had a different load worked up with Bergers, so I figured I'd just check velocities and go with it based on that. I know they're different loads and not comparing apples to apples, but here is what I had loaded.

162 eld-x with the IMR 4831 was running about 2,830 fps and shooting 1/2" groups.

168 berger with the H1000 was running about 2,970 fps and shooting about 5/8" - 3/4" groups.

I decided to go with the 168 berger. I know the groups are bigger, but for some reason, I'm just more confident with it. I feel like I can just stack them in there shot after shot after shot. I feel like I could just drop down, throw the gun down on my bag, and layer them in there for as many as I need to.

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mtmuley
(4608 posts)
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Sep-03-17, 
07:56 PM (MST)
6. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

You shoulda loaded the Accubond. mtmuley

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OchocoKid
(3091 posts)
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Sep-05-17, 
08:59 AM (MST)
7. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

Both 4831's are fine powders. just use them and don't worry about the flavor of the month powders.


Stay Thirsty My Friends

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lve2143
(2853 posts)
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Dec-11-17, 
05:10 PM (MST)
8. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

I'll buy all the IMR 4831
you want to sell.

That temperature crap is just
that. Crap.

I've shot IMR 4831 in Texas when
it was 90 degrees:

I've shot it in Colorado when it was
so cold I couldn't find my nuts.

Every time it worked, and it worked very well.

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Murr
(33 posts)
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Dec-12-17, 
08:00 PM (MST)
9. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

>I'll buy all the IMR 4831
>
>you want to sell.
>
>That temperature crap is just
>that. Crap.
>
>I've shot IMR 4831 in Texas
>when
>it was 90 degrees:
>
>I've shot it in Colorado when
>it was
>so cold I couldn't find my
>nuts.
>
>Every time it worked, and it
>worked very well.

What was the velocity difference between Texas and Colorado? I have no doubt your rifle went bang and a bullet came out of the barrel, but I'll bet there was a pretty significant swing in velocity.

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ofdscooby
(159 posts)
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Dec-12-17, 
09:55 PM (MST)
10. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

Ive seen a lot of great responses and advice in this forum in the past but on this I feel like everyone is off a bit. I have a gun that loves IMR 4831 that being said pressure accuracy and speed go up in the crapper if it gets too far into the 80s. IMR is temp sensitive and it will affect your accuracy and posibly success on shots farther that 200yards. H4831 is not as temp sensitive it is in Hodges extreme line but it is different on the burn chart and will not give you the same accuracy. The rifle I use IMR 4831 on is a 280ai that shoots Barnes TSXs very well. For my 7mag that I run the Berger 168s with I use 69.5 of Retumbo and and it cllocks in at 2950 FPS. I always try a temp sensitive powder but accuracy is the determining factor for me. The Reloaders are temp sensitive as well. Good luck.

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Millsworks
(285 posts)
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Dec-13-17, 
07:35 PM (MST)
11. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

The only cartridge I have personally experimented with IMR 4831 is my .338 win mag in a Savage Alaskan.
The load I used performed vertually the same in 75 degrees as it did in 17 degrees.
Had an inch or less point of impact change at 200yrds. with it hitting slightly high and to the right in warmer temps.
That answered it for me.
But I no longer use IMR powder now and tested it only that season with that one rifle.
Still feel comfortable it is all good to go for the average circumstances.

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Millsworks
(285 posts)
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Dec-13-17, 
10:30 PM (MST)
12. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

I will have to do some shooting this winter to see what happens with the Allient powders I use now.
Maybe some Reloader 22 vs.the all temp stable Reloader 23 in the .300 win mag for example.

Some of you guys that can post pics should try shooting on a good cold morning this winter and then put it away till a hot summer afternoon for comparison.
Sounds like a good write up and story.
Won't likely be something seen in the gun magazines though. Hard to push those new temp stable powders with the results I've seen in the past.
Putting ammo in a cooler on a hot day isn't true to life test for me.
Chamber temps should be a factor in a good test.

Maybe a few out there are up for some experimenting?

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Zeke
(8395 posts)
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Dec-14-17, 
11:23 AM (MST)
13. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

Hard
>to push those new temp
>stable powders with the results
>I've seen in the past.
>

Millworks,
That's just not true with every situation and your statement is too broad to have any degree of accuracy.

On second thought, you did say "with the results I'VE seen...so it was simply your opinion. I have a different one in certain circumstances.

Not all the powders that I use are of the temp insensitive type but I'm slowly moving that direction with excellent results.

I also agree that most hunters will see very little difference within closer ranges but when temps swing wildly and the ranges are extended, it's way more important to be way more consistent.

Zeke

#livelikezac

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mtmuley
(4608 posts)
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Dec-14-17, 
05:19 PM (MST)
14. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

What Zeke said. I've been using an "unstable" powder in a RUM for about 16 years. No issues yet. mtmuley

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Millsworks
(285 posts)
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Dec-14-17, 
09:25 PM (MST)
15. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

I firmly believe that even with the movement toward long range shooting and all the equipment that is available to us today that is precisely engineered for long distance shooting, the average hunter takes game at distances less than 300yrds in the west and half that in the Eastern U.S. on a regular basis.

Some calibers and some powder combinations in those calibers in some rifles may show a more than exceptable point of impact change at extreme temp difference from the temps they were zeroed in at 300yrds ,but I haven't seen that in my experience.

Of course long shots over 500yrds can and will need more attention to detail.
I have never said that it doesn't matter at all.
The average shooter won't see any difference in normal circumstances.

My .300 win mag was zeroed in 60 degree temps this past spring at 200yrds in roughly 60% humidity.
Shot it this morning in 18 degree temperature and 40% humidity.
Still exactly same point of impact.
Using Reloader 22 powder.
I have to drive over an hour to shoot over 400yrds, so I'll have to wait for the next cold snap to test that one.
But ,I feel I'm likely still hitting the kill zone with this load.
I suspect cartridge case capacity in magnums may help but I will try the .308 next to see what happens.
It's loaded with Reloader 15.

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mtmuley
(4608 posts)
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Dec-15-17, 
06:10 AM (MST)
16. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

Go to LRH or the Campfire and do a search. Thete are dozens of threads on the temp sensitivity issue. mtmuley

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lve2143
(2853 posts)
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Dec-16-17, 
05:38 PM (MST)
17. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

Hoss, you have WAY to
much time in your hands.
I wish I did.

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Millsworks
(285 posts)
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Dec-16-17, 
07:10 PM (MST)
18. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

>Hoss, you have WAY to
>much time in your hands.
>I wish I did.


2,843 posts.....
Must have more time than you thought.

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mightyhunter
(856 posts)
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Dec-23-17, 
12:36 PM (MST)
19. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

I have been using the H4831SC in both my 7mm Remington Magnum Howa and also in my Sako 85 in .300 Winchester Magnum. Reloading with Hornady ELD-X bullets and this powder gives me the best groups I have ever shot. I certainly don't think that is because I have become a better shot or that my vision has improved with time.

just sayin...mh

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Millsworks
(285 posts)
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Jan-02-18, 
04:53 PM (MST)
20. "RE: IMR 4831 question"

LAST EDITED ON Jan-02-18 AT 05:32 PM (MST)

Shot my .308 and .300 win mag this morning.
It was 11 degrees with 48% humidity. Fired at 400yrds. and 500yrds. with each rifle. Both were zeroed last spring in temps around 60 degrees. Humidity was in the 50-60% area.
The .308 is loaded with Reloader 15 and the .300 with Reloader 22.
Couldn't get the chronygraph to work in those temps so no information on velocity loss amounts.
The .308 dropped 4 inches at 400yrds and 11 at 500 compared to early spring zero.
The .300 win mag dropped 3 inches at 400 and 5 1/2 at the 500.
Looks like as long as it is inside 400 yrds the point of impact shift isn't enough to likely cause a miss on deer sized game or larger. With the .300 it was still exceptable at 500yrds. ,But just borderline.
The ammo and rifles were kept outside in unheated vehicle overnight in single digits.
Only fired three shots from each and the first shot was the lowest measered as posted above.
There was no noticable point of impact change at 200 yrds with either rifle in similar test a while back.
Wouldn't go as far as saying all the supposed non-temp stable powder will perform as well, but the Alliant powder was what I would call good to go for all normal situations that most would encounter.
Altitude changes are probably alot more of a concern and hay, if in doubt why not check the zero before the hunt on site.
Longer shots are certainly more teadious and temp swings or not, there will always be variables that we have to try to control.
If any of you are worried about it. I advise shooting at different temps to see what happens before rushing out to replace a supposedly inadequate powder.
When I run out of my Reloader 22 I will probably try some 23 as a possible replacement in my .300 win mag, but I see no need to worry until I need to take some really long shots.
If anyone is concerned, they should shoot in some variable temps at the range before just rushing out to buy the latest greatest powder.
If you are low or out of an older type non temp stable powder and don't mind reworking your loads, then by all means try the new stuff.

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