i need your help! nebo unit

LAST EDITED ON Sep-09-16 AT 11:56PM (MST)[p]i need help identifying 2 people that i caught on my trail camera last monday 9/5. it seems these 2 dont know how to respect someone elses property when they find it. i got a couple of decent photos of them walking around a wallow. i also got some photos of them trying to smash my lock box with a rock so they could get in to my camera. good thing they failed after just a few hits, but they did cause enough damage that it impacted my cameras photo taking abilities, as well as break the welds and bend it to the point where i will need not only a new camera, but a new lock box too. there is a reward for the person who can positively identify who these people are, that need a lesson on not touching what isnt yours. these photos where taken on the east side of the nebo loop, just west of nebo creek. if you know anyone who was in that area that looks like these guys, please send me a PM. or post it here publicly. i dont really care if the public knows what these guys are all about. thanks for your help!

i would imagine they are payson/santaquin/nephi locals. they dont look like the type who would travel too far to go hunting for a cow/spike

When you find out who these low lifes are I hope you will contact the DWR officer and press charges.

Where are the images of
Them damaging stuff? Not that I don't believe u. Just curious

Is this private property or public?

Utah DWR itself does not address game cameras as far as I can find.

If this is USFS then you are probably out of luck, unless they are willing to reimburse you on their own after you contact them (which is doubtful seeing there attitude from the photos).

The USFS has not addressed game cameras to date. They have addressed deer stands/blinds as being legal so if someone steals or damages a stand you would have a very good case to get a prosecution for someone damaging your property.

The only regs that the USFS has that would/could addressed game cameras would prohibit them.

First
Abandoned property for more than 24 hrs. Is now trash or property of the USFS.(guess USFS could prosecute for the destruction of their newly acquired property or give you a littering ticket)

Second
36 CFR II 261.10 (Title 36: Parks, Forests, and Public Property), (Code of Federal Regulations), (Chapter II: Forest Service, Dept of Agriculture), (Part 261: Prohibitions), (Subpart A: General prohibitions), (261.10 - Occupancy and use)

"The following are prohibited:

(a) Constructing, placing, or maintaining any kind of road, trail, structure, fence, enclosure, communications equipment, or other improvement on National Forest System lands or facilities without a special use authorization, contract, or approved operating plan, unless such authorization, contract, or operating plan is waived pursuant to ? 251.50(e) of this chapter.

Some will say its a stretch but most could argue in court that it fits and research groups do get permits/permission for game cameras placement on most federal public lands (USFS,BLM,NPS,etc)

Lastly, if it is designated wilderness you could be looking at some other laws prohibiting them as well.

You can say they damage your property and they can say it was illegal property or abandoned anyways if it was on federal land. Does this mean you will lose, depends. It would be good to see a case go through and establish some case law for the matter. They do not look to bright so prosecution maybe easy for these fellers.

Its now a common practice that is illegal in current law but typically ignored by officers/public. I have several cameras that I run and I do it knowing that if it is messed with/stolen, I probably will not have a very good case on public land.

Not saying they do not deserve to be prosecuted, because they definitely do, but at this point in time the USFS and UT DWR has not caught up regulation wise for game cameras on public land. In the future, they could be allowed but some states have prohibited (I think Montana is one that prohibit game cameras at least to a certain period of time).

*****I would be interested to hear if someone has caught someone on public land (not state but federal) and got the state (UTAH) or county to prosecute them for damaging personal property and succeeded.

>Where are the images of
>Them damaging stuff? Not that I
>don't believe u. Just curious
>


i have been asked by a utah county sheriff to not publish those photos for investigation reasons. there was an un related incident that took place in the same area, the week before where someone elses property was destroyed. they are looking into a possible connection between the 2 incidents.

it is public land. FS land i believe...

so is any trailer/tent/truck/atv/motorcycle/treestand/etc... that i find after being left for over a 24 hour period, fair game for me to take? theft is theft. vandalism is vandalism.

Yep. If somebody parks their trailer for 24 hours to reserve a camping spot before the hunt, feel free to beat the he!! out of it. I think that's what people are saying.

Grizzly

Thats tempting on occasion. This is my wifes first archery hunt ever and even she's shocked at the squatters that have been blatantly reserving the best spots since August on the Wasatch. Trailers with no trucks around and $30 Walmart tents an $10 chairs reserving huge primo areas. Wish the forest service was staffed to stop it.

>it is public land. FS land
>i believe...
>
>so is any trailer/tent/truck/atv/motorcycle/treestand/etc... that i
>find after being left for
>over a 24 hour period,
>fair game for me to
>take? theft is theft. vandalism
>is vandalism.


I am not saying it is not theft or vandalism. I am saying that the USFS (who's land you are on) have no terms/conditions established allowing the use of game cams therefore it is either illegal to place or abandoned by law. They have terms set in place to leave camping gear, vehicle, etc in the field for 14 days before it is considered abandonded but it does not address game cameras.

It is extremely grey and I am interested if the DWR or County would prosecute it. It is up for interpretation in a court setting. So states have their own statues for hunting equipment vandalize and theft.

they have been identified. i'll update you on if anything can be done about it

What a couple of dbags, hope they learn the error of their ways, probably the same kind of guys who leave garbage behind in their firepit for the next guy to clean

>they have been identified. i'll update
>you on if anything can
>be done about it


No offense, and truly there are many on this site that can attest to my integrity.

Simple fact is, anything left in one spot on Public land for a certain period of time can be classified as "abandoned".

Just saying. Not saying it is right.


By the way. YZF, good luck to you and your wife.

Kill that big one that you should have already had her shoot?

Could possibly catch it all under this statute?? So long as the person who's camera it is, is hunting during a legal hunt, and possesses a tag.

23-20-29.5 Interference with hunters or hunting activity -- Prosecution under criminal code.
A person who intentionally interferes with a person who is licensed and taking wildlife legally
under the provision of Title 23, Chapter 19, Licenses, Permits, and Tags, or disrupts an activity
involving a legal hunt, trapping, falconry, or predator control may be charged with a violation under
Section 76-9-102 if that interference or disruption constitutes a violation under Section 76-9-102.

"I am not saying it is not theft or vandalism. I am saying that the USFS (who's land you are on) have no terms/conditions established allowing the use of game cams therefore it is either illegal to place or abandoned by law. They have terms set in place to leave camping gear, vehicle, etc in the field for 14 days before it is considered abandonded but it does not address game cameras."

So the only things that are legal to do on public land is what is actually written in the law that you can do?

>Could possibly catch it all under
>this statute?? So long
>as the person who's camera
>it is, is hunting during
>a legal hunt, and possesses
>a tag.
>
>23-20-29.5 Interference with hunters or hunting
>activity -- Prosecution under criminal
>code.
> A person who intentionally interferes
>with a person who is
>licensed and taking wildlife legally
>
>under the provision of Title 23,
>Chapter 19, Licenses, Permits, and
>Tags, or disrupts an activity
>
>involving a legal hunt, trapping, falconry,
>or predator control may be
>charged with a violation under
>
>Section 76-9-102 if that interference or
>disruption constitutes a violation under
>Section 76-9-102.


Nice find looks like it could be a legitimate possibility!

That seems like a stretch with a cam. First, don't screw with other dudes stuff. Second, I would have left you a pic of my azz. Third, don't mess with other peoples stuff.

Having said all that, why do guys continually leave hundreds of dollars on a tree on public ground, then get bent that it disapears. Unless your a guy that NEVER would pick up a dollar left lying in a parking lot, or a knife left on a gut pile, etc, etc, don't complain. Funny that first dude left a camera, but If I left a beer can you all would #####. What is the difference? Really, I might be coming back later to grab it. Your leaving a metal box bolted to a tree, and me leaving a box of metal cans on the side of the road, is the same thing, your not sitting by the cam, its highly unlikely your coming back in the next few hours.

Guys keep pushing this trail cam stuff with the FS will eventually lead to them being outlawed. The FS is usually anti bolting stuff to trees, leaving anything behind,etc, etc.

I hate thieves, but strapping hundreds of dollars to a tree and leaving it for weeks if not months, then being outraged its gone or something happened, well, to quote the famous philosopher Bill Engval, "heres your sign".


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"

>That seems like a stretch with
>a cam. First, don't
>screw with other dudes stuff.
> Second, I would have
>left you a pic of
>my azz. Third, don't
>mess with other peoples stuff.
>
>
>Having said all that, why do
>guys continually leave hundreds of
>dollars on a tree on
>public ground, then get bent
>that it disapears. Unless
>your a guy that NEVER
>would pick up a dollar
>left lying in a parking
>lot, or a knife left
>on a gut pile, etc,
>etc, don't complain. Funny
>that first dude left a
>camera, but If I left
>a beer can you all
>would #####. What is
>the difference? Really, I
>might be coming back later
>to grab it. Your
>leaving a metal box bolted
>to a tree, and me
>leaving a box of metal
>cans on the side of
>the road, is the same
>thing, your not sitting by
>the cam, its highly unlikely
>your coming back in the
>next few hours.
>
>Guys keep pushing this trail cam
>stuff with the FS will
>eventually lead to them being
>outlawed. The FS is
>usually anti bolting stuff to
>trees, leaving anything behind,etc, etc.
>
>
>I hate thieves, but strapping hundreds
>of dollars to a tree
>and leaving it for weeks
>if not months, then being
>outraged its gone or something
>happened, well, to quote the
>famous philosopher Bill Engval, "heres
>your sign".
>
>
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"


Big differences in ur scenarios. The camera are not abandoned they are being used for scouting. People know that and yet are dishonest and have to touch others property.