Applying in Utah as a Non-Res

mike111 · Feb 11, 2017

I'll be applying for Utah deer as a non-resident. I was wondering can I apply for a general season buck permit, and a limited/once in a lifetime permit for the same year? That way I would receive the general season permit, but gain a point in the limited/once in a lifetime draw?

Cahunter805 · Feb 11, 2017

elkfromabove · Feb 12, 2017

In fact, you as a non-resident can apply for hunts for ALL Limited Entry AND Once-in-a-Lifetime species. See page 14 of the Big Game Application Guidebook for details. You can only draw one LE or OIL tag each year, but you'll get points for the ones you don't draw. Good luck and safe hunting!

txhunter58 · Feb 16, 2017

LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-17 AT 11:16AM (MST)[p]As stated you can apply for multiple species as a nonresident. But you notice that residents can't. Why?? Because they don't want to be able to do that. Multiple applications on the LE side means our chances of drawing our most coveted (in my case elk and in your case deer) are MUCH worse due to more applicants for each species. AND you can only draw one tag. If you draw an LE deer tag, you are taken out of the rest of the LE drawings for a tag.

So Utah can collect our money for multiple species, but we are only allowed to draw one species. If it was really such a good idea, the residents would be able to do it as well.

That said, I apply for both elk and deer each year so I won't fall behind. However, I wish they would change it to a system where we could all apply for a point in multiple species, but only apply for a single tag. Our odds of drawing that tag (in the case of elk/deer) would go up by at least double. And they would make the same money. Win/win in my book

Of course there are people who like the system the way it is because they have a "chance" to draw any of the tags. To me that is kind of like saying: "So you're saying there's a chance!!"

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

Chacoblue777 · Feb 22, 2017

>LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-17
>AT 11:16?AM (MST)
>
>As stated you can apply for
>multiple species as a nonresident.
>But you notice that residents
>can't. Why?? Because
>they don't want to be
>able to do that.
>Multiple applications on the LE
>side means our chances of
>drawing our most coveted (in
>my case elk and in
>your case deer) are MUCH
>worse due to more applicants
>for each species. AND you
>can only draw one tag.
>If you draw an LE
>deer tag, you are taken
>out of the rest of
>the LE drawings for a
>tag.
>
>So Utah can collect our money
>for multiple species, but we
>are only allowed to draw
>one species. If it was
>really such a good idea,
>the residents would be able
>to do it as well.
>
>
>That said, I apply for both
>elk and deer each year
>so I won't fall behind.
> However, I wish they
>would change it to a
>system where we could all
>apply for a point in
>multiple species, but only apply
>for a single tag.
>Our odds of drawing that
>tag (in the case of
>elk/deer) would go up by
>at least double. And
>they would make the same
>money. Win/win in my
>book
>
>Of course there are people who
>like the system the way
>it is because they have
>a "chance" to draw any
>of the tags. To
>me that is kind of
>like saying: "So you're
>saying there's a chance!!"
>
>txhunter58
>
>venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore
>I am)

Agreed txhunter!! But I throw my hat in the ring each year for all species anyway........hoping? Good luck in the upcoming draws!

mntman · Feb 23, 2017

>LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-17
>AT 11:16?AM (MST)
>
>As stated you can apply for
>multiple species as a nonresident.
>But you notice that residents
>can't. Why?? Because
>they don't want to be
>able to do that.
>Multiple applications on the LE
>side means our chances of
>drawing our most coveted (in
>my case elk and in
>your case deer) are MUCH
>worse due to more applicants
>for each species. AND you
>can only draw one tag.
>If you draw an LE
>deer tag, you are taken
>out of the rest of
>the LE drawings for a
>tag.
>
>So Utah can collect our money
>for multiple species, but we
>are only allowed to draw
>one species. If it was
>really such a good idea,
>the residents would be able
>to do it as well.
>
>
>That said, I apply for both
>elk and deer each year
>so I won't fall behind.
> However, I wish they
>would change it to a
>system where we could all
>apply for a point in
>multiple species, but only apply
>for a single tag.
>Our odds of drawing that
>tag (in the case of
>elk/deer) would go up by
>at least double. And
>they would make the same
>money. Win/win in my
>book
>
>Of course there are people who
>like the system the way
>it is because they have
>a "chance" to draw any
>of the tags. To
>me that is kind of
>like saying: "So you're
>saying there's a chance!!"
>
>txhunter58
>
>venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore
>I am)

That is a great idea!
Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

mike111 · Feb 28, 2017

Thanks for the info I appreciate it! This year I applied for all bonus points, for general deer, limited entry deer, limited entry elk. How I understand the draw after reading page 14. If I apply for points long enough I will draw all three of the above, but just can't draw any of the three on the same year.

txhunter58 · Mar 1, 2017

"Long enough" is a loaded term. With LE drawings you may not draw in your lifetime depending on what you want to draw

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

elkfromabove · Mar 1, 2017

>"Long enough" is a loaded term.
>With LE drawings you may
>not draw in your lifetime
>depending on what you want
>to draw
>
>venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore
>I am)

It's called "point creep" and it means that there are many more people coming into the draws than are going out and it keeps pushing up the maximum points needed per the 50/50 rule to insure getting a tag. And that's compounded by the continual increase of applicants in the maximum pool (and sometimes by a reduction in tags).

For instance: (Bull Moose)
2012-
Res tags-106, Nonres tags-8.
New Res apps-2000, new Nonres apps-574.
Res max points-19, Nonres max points-18.
Res max point pool-1, Nonres max point pool-1

2015-
Res tags-100, Nonres tags-5.
New Res apps-2345, new Nonres apps-702.
Res max points-21, Nonres max points-21.
Res max point pool-4, Nonres max point pool-1

All hunts have their own point creep according to the normal various factors that determine tag numbers and draw odds, but they all currently have some kind of point creep and it's about 2 points every 3 years. Of course, there is always a chance that you could be one of the lucky ones not in the maximum pool who beats the odds, but, as indicated, there's no guarantee that those who are just getting started will EVER reach the max point pool in their lifetime. Sorry, but that's just the way the system currently works.

JRABQ · Mar 1, 2017

Up to about 8-9 years ago NR had the same restrictions as residents; only one LE application per year. I guess they changed it to make more $$.

mike111 · Mar 1, 2017

Yeah with slim odds, and point creep getting worse it's hard to understand why there's such an increase in apps year after year. I figure since I'm already going to purchase the license every year for general deer, then might as well throw the extra $20 in to gain the other points just incase. Thanks again for all the helpful info on this.

elkfromabove · Mar 2, 2017

LAST EDITED ON Mar-02-17 AT 10:44PM (MST)[p]>Yeah with slim odds, and point
>creep getting worse it's hard
>to understand why there's such
>an increase in apps year
>after year. I figure since
>I'm already going to purchase
>the license every year for
>general deer, then might as
>well throw the extra $20
>in to gain the other
>points just incase. Thanks again
>for all the helpful info
>on this.

To me, it's not that hard to understand the increase in apps. The Utah population just keeps increasing, plus the mentor policy, the trial program, special youth hunts, lowering the age of applicants/hunters, allowing nonresidents to apply for all species, giving 20% of the tags to youth and drawing those tags before the regular adult tags, and the ads and articles on social media that appear on hand held/pocket devices, especially phones, are means and methods used to recruit new hunters. It's a matter of supply and demand, but it's easier and more profitable to increase the demand than it is to increase the supply. And that's what's happening.

txhunter58 · Mar 3, 2017

>Up to about 8-9 years ago
>NR had the same restrictions
>as residents; only one LE
>application per year. I guess
>they changed it to make
>more $$.

Yep, but they could make the same money if they let us only apply for one tag, but let us apply for points for all species. That way our odds of drawing our most coveted tag go way up. The decrease in odds of drawing with multiple species is why the residents DON'T have the same rules. They don't want it. They could even allow residents to apply for points only on more than one species and increase revenue even more. I can't see why all but a few would be against that. Most people have that "core" animal that they would most like to draw (with me it is an elk). When they changed the rules, it dropped my odds of drawing an elk tag by more than half.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)