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General Season 185 Bucks

 
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Founder
(6333 posts)
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Aug-28-17, 
11:08 AM (MST)
"General Season 185 Bucks"

I've got a question for those of you who hunt general season areas in Utah. This year, I've spent 26 days scouting western Wyoming, looked at 510 bucks, and have not yet seen a buck I could honestly say will break 185. A few that I think are 180ish.

Question is, if you invested that much time looking for general season bucks in Utah, and looked at that many bucks, do you think you would have found better quality?

Honestly, I think in the general season areas I know here in Utah, I probably could've found one in that scouting time. But I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. What do you think?

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
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  Table of Contents  

 Subject   Author   Message Date   ID 
 RE: General Se...  deerkiller      Aug-28-17   1 
  RE: General Se...  Dryfly      Aug-28-17   2 
   RE: General Se...  N_Corey      Aug-28-17   3 
    RE: General Se...  fullthrottle      Aug-28-17   4 
     RE: General Se...  One_Duck_Li...      Aug-28-17   5 
      RE: General Se...  travishunte...      Aug-28-17   6 
       RE: General Se...  buckhorn      Aug-28-17   7 
        RE: General Se...  shootem      Aug-28-17   8 
         RE: General Se...  Castnshoot      Aug-28-17   9 
          RE: General Se...  elkassassin      Aug-28-17   10 
        RE: General Se...  Founder      Aug-28-17   11 
         RE: General Se...  elkassassin      Aug-28-17   12 
 RE: General Se...  marburg      Aug-29-17   13 
  RE: General Se...  Deerlove      Aug-29-17   14 
   RE: General Se...  bugleb      Aug-29-17   16 
  RE: General Se...  huntin50      Aug-29-17   15 
   RE: General Se...  Founder      Aug-29-17   17 
    RE: General Se...  schoolhouse...      Aug-29-17   18 
     RE: General Se...  huntin50      Aug-29-17   19 
 RE: General Se...  goforbroke      Aug-30-17   20 
  RE: General Se...  One_Duck_Li...      Aug-31-17   21 
   RE: General Se...  huntin50      Aug-31-17   22 
 RE: General Se...  bowhunt3r4l...      Aug-31-17   23 
  RE: General Se...  Stubaby      Sep-02-17   24 
   RE: General Se...  grizzly      Sep-02-17   25 
    RE: General Se...  deerfanatic      Sep-06-17   26 
 RE: General Se...  BrowningRage      Sep-07-17   27 

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deerkiller
(314 posts)
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Aug-28-17, 
11:39 AM (MST)
1. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

>I've got a question for those
>of you who hunt general
>season areas in Utah. This
>year, I've spent 26 days
>scouting western Wyoming, looked at
>510 bucks, and have not
>yet seen a buck I
>could honestly say will break
>185. A few that I
>think are 180ish.
>
>Question is, if you invested that
>much time looking for general
>season bucks in Utah, and
>looked at that many bucks,
>do you think you would
>have found better quality?
>
>Honestly, I think in the general
>season areas I know here
>in Utah, I probably could've
>found one in that scouting
>time. But I don't know.
>Maybe I'm wrong. What do
>you think?
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!
Yep.

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Dryfly
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Aug-28-17, 
11:45 AM (MST)
2. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

I was stalking on a spike in a Ut general unit yesterday. Jumped a buck out of his bed that I would bet is close to that mark. Unfortunately no deer tag for me this year.

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N_Corey
(75 posts)
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Aug-28-17, 
12:19 PM (MST)
3. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

No answer for your direct question as I'm not from Utah but it sounds like the quality is definitely down for Wyoming. Do you think it's from last winter or over pressured/over harvested in recent years?

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fullthrottle
(466 posts)
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Aug-28-17, 
12:53 PM (MST)
4. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

No question if I looked at over 500 bucks in Utah that I would see more than one that went over 185. That being said 500 bucks is a lot, I would bet there are numerous units in the state that don't even have 500 bucks. Pretty crazy you have looked at that many bucks and not found a couple slugs, especially in that country. That just goes to show how much the quality has dropped off. Hopefully it's just a lull in quality, but man you talk to the old timers and they mention groups of bucks with 2 or 3 out of the10 in the group that would go over that back in the day. Western Wyoming is incredible, but those big racked 3 and 4 year old bucks sure have the deck stacked against them with all the publicity, hard core, long range, technology hunters have now. A big racked 6-7 year old buck is becoming very scarce. I think those big, beautiful, easier to hunt basin have seen there day. Probably a better chance of finding a big old beast down in the lower wooded 8500' range just because it's much tougher hunting and takes away many of today's hunters advantage's.

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One_Duck_Limit
(25 posts)
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Aug-28-17, 
02:01 PM (MST)
5. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

I would say any state you find 500 bucks in you'd find one over 185, that's a lot of deer to pick through.

I'm no biologist but I think you're seeing the results of an extremely hard winter. The deer were in such rough shape this spring their bodies were still recovering over the summer while growing alters.

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travishunter3006
(1675 posts)
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Aug-28-17, 
02:48 PM (MST)
6. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

My question is how are you keeping track of the bucks to know you be seen 510 and not 511?

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buckhorn
(516 posts)
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Aug-28-17, 
03:12 PM (MST)
7. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

>My question is how are you
>keeping track of the bucks
>to know you be seen
>510 and not 511?

Good question. I would also like to know how you can be sure they are all different ones and not seeing some of the same ones over again?

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shootem
(190 posts)
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Aug-28-17, 
03:55 PM (MST)
8. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

I think genetics play a huge part on whether the buck will exceed 185+. If your not seeing the bigger bucks that exceed 190" it could be that the genetics to grow big deer are all but gone. For example, the general season area I hunt in Utah can grow some older aged deer but I rarely see a 190 class buck because the big/old deer have poor genetics. I shot a buck this year that the taxi said was an 8 1/2 year old deer and this deer only scores 170+. Just because you have older bucks does not mean they will exceed the 185" mark.

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Castnshoot
(612 posts)
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Aug-28-17, 
08:02 PM (MST)
9. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

Or,,, Founder might just be protecting his honey hole with fake news.

Tape a GPS tracking device to Founders bumper and he will likely take you right to a 185+ buck

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elkassassin
(15802 posts)
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Aug-28-17, 
08:57 PM (MST)
10. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"


So?

There Are NO BIG BUCKS Left in Wyoming!

Back Me Off to 1,700 Yards,650 is a Little Close & I'm Not Comfortable with it!

A GUT SHOT at 1,700 Yards will Still Make Some Good BRAGGIN Rights so I Can Say I At Least Hit Him!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OsWQNYfEYo

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Founder
(6333 posts)
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Aug-28-17, 
09:17 PM (MST)
11. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

Fair question. The 510 is an absolute minimum. I rarely look at the same place both an evening and morning, and almost never multiple mornings. If I do look at an area in an evening and see 5 bucks, then 20 the next morning, I only count the 20, assuming the 5 may have been the ones the evening before. For certain, the 510 is minimum. It's very important to me to make accurate counts, otherwise there's no point in counting. No doubt I've looked at 510, at least.

Following me up there this year would be a waste. I'd probably turn around and follow you!! Ha ha

I'm shocked that after seeing that number, that none are over 185. I got good video of all but a couple of the biggest bucks, so I can't even BS myself. Even those I didn't get good video of, I can't BS myself, I still got good looks with my eyes.

I was just thinking that in general areas of Utah I'd have better success. Thought I'd see what you guys thought.

Believe me, I've considered the fact that maybe I just suck. But big bucks are bucks, they feed like all others. I've found them before, just not this year. I've never seen one with a tape measure, so I know they don't know how big their antlers are and big ones never eat.
A bit frustrating. Okay, a lot frustrating. 26 days!!! 510 bucks, at least!!!

Could winter have really impacted antler growth? What's the deal is what I can't figure out. i guess I'll know after the hunt. If a bunch of beasts get hammered, then maybe I need to find a new hobby.


>>My question is how are you
>>keeping track of the bucks
>>to know you be seen
>>510 and not 511?
>
>Good question. I would also like
>to know how you can
>be sure they are all
>different ones and not seeing
>some of the same ones
>over again?


Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
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elkassassin
(15802 posts)
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Aug-28-17, 
09:29 PM (MST)
12. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

Here in NE TARDville!

The Bucks Got Hit Hard in 2016!

Did the Annual/Usual Deer Counts During the RUT!

If I Can't Find a 180"+ Buck During the RUT?

What's the Chance of Finding one During the Hunt?

Back Me Off to 1,700 Yards,650 is a Little Close & I'm Not Comfortable with it!

A GUT SHOT at 1,700 Yards will Still Make Some Good BRAGGIN Rights so I Can Say I At Least Hit Him!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OsWQNYfEYo

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marburg
(487 posts)
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Aug-29-17, 
00:55 AM (MST)
13. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

There is a reason most the serious giant killers dont hunt Wyoming for mule deer. The quality is just not on par with other states. If you looked over 500 mule deer in Utah, Colorado, Nevada, hell even northeastern California you would easily see one or more better than 185.

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Deerlove
(4114 posts)
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Aug-29-17, 
10:54 AM (MST)
14. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

The problem is it would take you multiple summers to find a total of 500 bucks in No ut. So Ut I feel you would of seen a dozen.

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bugleb
(103 posts)
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Aug-29-17, 
11:10 AM (MST)
16. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

Between the four hunters in my group, we saw about 50 different bucks during the first 5 days of the central Utah archery hunt. None of them would score over 100. About half were spikes. Only two were four points, small ones.

I could find a bigger buck than those two on practically any day scouting or hunting in Wyoming, even though this year is pathetic compared to most years.

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huntin50
(958 posts)
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Aug-29-17, 
11:07 AM (MST)
15. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

I believe founders numbers are more accurate than 90% of the biologist.
After the bad winter I said in a post most of the bucks 6 plus years would likely winter kill. Most of the fawns would die in western WY and SE Idaho.

How many fawns have you seen founder? What about total populations compared to other recent years?
Thanks.

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Founder
(6333 posts)
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Aug-29-17, 
11:53 AM (MST)
17. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

You know huntin50, I think I'm seeing older bucks. They're not just 2-3 year olds. Some I believe are older. I think there are a good number of 4-6 year old bucks up there. I know most just don't have the genetics to ever be more than a 22-inch 4-point.

As far as fawns, I've only seen a few, but I usually don't see many in the country where I'm scouting for bucks. In late summer I usually begin seeing a few as does will creep into those higher basins a bit more as the fawns grow up a little. But for the most part, I don't see enough fawns to form an opinion. Most of the does and fawns live lower in thicker stuff, so I can't speak for fawn numbers. Only bucks.

As far as yearling bucks, I'd say I'm seeing close to the same as last year. Might be off some, and that's probably why I'm seeing 10-15% less bucks this year compared to last. A few missing yearlings.

As for total buck numbers, I would say it's off by about 10-15% compared to last year. In 25 days last summer I looked at 590 bucks up there. This year in 25 days, I've looked at 510. The 10-15% reduction is probably those yearlings that winter killed. That would be my guess.

Last year I saw 4 bucks I was sure would break 190, then 3 more in that 185-190 range and then about 10 in that 180 range.
This year, I've seen none over 185 and just a handful that I think are in that 180ish range. Maybe 10-12 bucks that I believe will break 170.

In all honesty, I guess I'm talking about 10 inches of bone is all on the top 2% of bucks. I suppose the winter could have hindered growth a little. At this point, that's what I'm blaming it on. Width and extra points seem to be what's missing this year. The best bucks last year had more width and many had an extra point or three or four that made the difference.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
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schoolhousegrizz
(719 posts)
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Aug-29-17, 
01:14 PM (MST)
18. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

I have thought about this a lot. I think you would have a hard time seeing 510 bucks on one General season unit in Utah. That might take you three or four years. However I do think the quality in Utah is slightly better, just not the quantity. I have spent 19 days hunting and scouting in Northern Utah this year. I have seen about 75 different bucks, some multiple times. I have been staying in the same area quite a bit. I have seen one buck that is 160ish and another one that is 175 plus, maybe 180. It just goes to show you how special a 170 Buck on public land really is. They are hard enough to see, let alone Harvest.

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huntin50
(958 posts)
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Aug-29-17, 
04:06 PM (MST)
19. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

LAST EDITED ON Aug-29-17 AT 04:21 PM (MST)

Thanks for the info Founder.

Cache Valley had a lot of snow, but had a thaw in February.
Sportsmen fed deer this winter. I know of a couple bucks over 200 inches that were shot so far this year. I don't know if they would have survived without the feeding program. Also, I don't know if they would have been in condition to sport the antlers they grew. Temps in WY were a lot colder, more snow, and no feeding.

I have seen about 50% of the does with zero fawn and 50% with twins. It make me wonder if the does who had twins were fed or wintered on the Cache Valley side compared to the Bear Lake side, where winter conditions and snow levels were worse?

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goforbroke
(203 posts)
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Aug-30-17, 
11:40 AM (MST)
20. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

I have never seen a buck in Utah over 180" - besides camp williams. And that is in quite a few days of hunting. I have seen those in New Mexico and Colorado in less days of hunting. I see several pics of harvested bucks over that 185", but I've never seen one on the hoof.

to find 185" plus will take a few years exploring. you might find that in 26 days, you might not. It will be fun hearing of your adventures.

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One_Duck_Limit
(25 posts)
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Aug-31-17, 
08:41 AM (MST)
21. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

Let me throw out another theory. I like to fish rivers. There are rivers that have so many fish in them that their growth is stunted. The river does not have the resources to grow large numbers of big fish. Can it be that the area your scouting has two many deer and the resources aren't there to support them?

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huntin50
(958 posts)
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Aug-31-17, 
11:24 AM (MST)
22. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

I think the carrying capacity for mule deer in winter and summer ranges in western WY are below objective, as well as SE Idaho, and Northern Utah. We just had a bad winter, especially in Western WY and SE Idaho.

I think the long cold winter took a toll on older bucks and antler growth of the survivors.

Some Utah units probably only have 1,500-2,000 bucks. I would bet there are more than eight 185 class bucks. More especially if you count city bucks.

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bowhunt3r4l1f3
(145 posts)
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Aug-31-17, 
01:04 PM (MST)
23. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

I've seen 2 bucks this year right at or just over the 200 mark, general season units in Utah. I wasn't even looking for deer is the funny part, I've pretty much only scouted for elk this year. Looks to be a real good year as far as I can tell. I think the quality has definitely been heading up the past couple of years. One was on a unit I normally don't see many bucks over 160, so that says something to me.

www.utahscoutingservices.com

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Stubaby
(970 posts)
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Sep-02-17, 
09:39 PM (MST)
24. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"


Hey bowhunt3r1.....

How's business? You hiring?


"That's a special feeling, Lloyd"

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grizzly
(2528 posts)
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Sep-02-17, 
11:33 PM (MST)
25. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

Wow, those are some tough odds in Wyoming right now.

The Cache has produced two giant deer (220+?) already this year so they clearly are still roaming the general units in the northern part of the state.

Grizzly

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deerfanatic
(87 posts)
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Sep-06-17, 
05:36 AM (MST)
26. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

Winter could be to blame for finding the zero big ones..

Remember pimping all those coordinates out? It might just be that karma is a #####.

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BrowningRage
(3060 posts)
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Sep-07-17, 
09:13 AM (MST)
27. "RE: General Season 185 Bucks"

If you spend 26 days scouting general season in Utah- You will see about 52 bucks... Sooo... Chances are slim you will see a 185" buck in 26 days.

However, if you scouted for 260 days, and therefore saw 520 bucks in Utah, I'm guessing one of them would go 185" or better...

Also, I'm talking about 520 UNIQUE bucks... Since you generally see a lot of the same bucks when scouting an area, it would be hard to find 520 UNIQUE bucks without moving around A LOT.

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24

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