>I have not bought into it
>because the data doesn't play
>it out, until this year.
>The last three years, as
>you posted, have been fine
>for hunters. Look at the
>success rates and the age
>class of elk being taken.
>These aren't what I saw,
>they're objective numbers we can
>look at.
>
>If having a great chance to
>kill a 6.5 year old
>elk isn't good enough for
>someone, then I say that
>person is the problem, not
>the wildlife or the management.
>
>
>Now, this year looks to be
>different. And that should make
>people take notice. But one
>year doesn't tell the story,
>and we can't manage from
>year to year.
>
>JakeH, this discussion goes well beyond
>this thread. I mentioned before
>that part of my skepticism
>is that we saw this
>on the Wasatch in the
>last few years. Quite a
>few ?very knowledgeable? people told
>us the sky was falling
>and the DWR has ruined
>the unit. I was on
>the unit helping others with
>tags those years, and that
>isn't what I observed, and
>the data didn't show it
>either. There was talk by
>some of these people with
>tons of knowledge on the
>unit of just making it
>general season and move on,
>the unit was shot. Again,
>the numbers and data didn't
>play it out. Too many
>tags were being given out.
>Spike hunting and over allocation
>of cow permits were killing
>the unit...none were left. (Sound
>familiar?) We we're coming to
>the cliff and there was
>no brining the unit back.
>A tweak in the antlerless
>hunts, and they are still
>spike hunting and giving more
>big bull tags than they
>ever have, yet this year
>was one of the best
>in a long, long time
>on the unit for big
>bulls.
>
>I cited that example weeks ago
>as one of my reasons
>for not buying hook, line,
>and sinker what was being
>sold about the Book Cliffs.
>And if changes need to
>be made, they should be
>made. But we don't make
>changes off antecdotes and emotion.
>And you shouldn't manage year
>to year. 2015-2017 data would
>show the Book Cliffs is
>in fine shape on elk.
>This year is concerning already.
>But a lot goes into
>that, some of which we
>can't control.
>
>Lastly, and I guess it's my
>turn to rant a bit.
>I'm sick and tired of
>hearing naysayers spitting how crappy
>things are and we need
>to restrict opportunity even further
>than it is because people
>can't see 380 inch bulls
>and 200 inch bucks from
>the road around every bend.
>It doesn't have to be
>easy for all of us
>to be happy.
I believe this year was worse due to the extremely dry conditions out there this year, And to be honest I'm not as worried about the elk. Elk are harty animals and will bounce back, but I think things need to be looked at, like you said they had to make some changes to the antlerless tags on the Wasatch to get the herd to bounce back. I think the elk can and will but they need to do something different for sure, which would include limiting spike hunting in some way or another and a reduction in cow tags. I really feel bad for the guys that burned there points out there this year because is all I have herd is bad.
The deer on the other hand I think are really struggling Ive been going out and spending time in the books for 20 years now, like I said the deer numbers are just not there like they used to be, I would say not even half of what they used to be,
I just checked the numbers, They have a population objective of 15000 animals, and there estimated population is at 7100 not even half. Thats a big deal in my book, and something needs to be done.
I know the biologists know there is a problem and they are working to figure out a solution. Hopefully they are able to figure it out.
And lastly the books has never been a unit to drive around and find 380 bulls or 200" deer, I could probably count on 1 hand the number of 200" deer I have seen out there. But when you drive around and dont see a buck over 130 thats a issue.
Jake H. BIG BONE HUNTING Page on Facebook.
