Proposed license reissue changes

ColoradoOak · Nov 18, 2016

I was listening online to the PWC meeting this morning and the discussion about proposed changes to the reissue of returned licenses. I had a couple of distractions so I may have misunderstood something, but I believe this is what they are proposing (to be finalized at the January meeting).

Returned licenses that take 5 or more resident preference points to draw will be offered to up to 5 original applicants next in line. If any of the applicants accept the license, they will lose their points. If none of the 5 accept, the license will then go to the reissue list and points will not be used for those successful in purchasing that license.

License exchanges, which are currently free of charge, will be charged similar to replacing a lost license (50% of the original license cost, up to a maximum of $25 charge). This is because CPW reports license exchanges being way up this year, with some people exchanging licenses multiple times.

txhunter58 · Nov 18, 2016

sounds reasonable. Always thought the next in line should get first crack at primo licenses. Will make the first "open" license purchases not as melodramatic.

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

elks96 · Nov 18, 2016

Hamm! Never saw it as an item on the agenda. Did I miss it? How exactly do they decide the next 5 in line? Resident only or NR? It is fine as most of the tags never required that many points! But it will be interesting to see how many people will cash in points at last minute to hunt! The entire reason why we have the points system is in part so that people can plan vacation etc.

Either way. But I would much rather see it open for a free for all. How long is a person next in line given to decide? Also how will we know who is really next in line? Will they publish a list for the hunt codes?

txhunter58 · Nov 18, 2016

i am sure it will be handled just like they already do moose/ sheep tags. When they do the drawing the person who just missed will be #1 in line etc. and I am sure that the 5 will be the 5 next in line regardless of resident status. And it won't be last minute because people will be handing them back at least 30 days out. Seems fair to me

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

ORIONTHEHUNTER · Nov 20, 2016

So are they going to pick 5 every re-issue list, every week. also it does matter resident and non-resident because if the non-resident quota has been met and none have been turned in by non-residents than no non-residents should be on the contact list.

oldmossback · Nov 21, 2016

What about units that take less than 5 resident PP's but more than 5 non resident PP's.

I know many units that take 3 resident points and 8-9 non resident points.

Like mentioned earlier what if the non resident quota has been met?
I kinda like the free for all way they did it this year better. Keep it simple. I was amazed at the number of people who didn't even know about the reissue list and process. That also includes many license vendors who had no clue it existed. I personally spoke to 3 vendors who only knew about the one leftover draw. They had no clue and were willing to argue with me when I said I was trying to buy a reissue tag.

txhunter58 · Nov 21, 2016

I would suspect the tags will be for more than 5 resident points. The truly Primo tags.

I would also suspect they will only do the 5 people on the leftover list. If more tags than that are turned back in than 5, they will go back to a free for all. I could be wrong though.

But, these won't be 5 random people, they will be the next 5 people in line that didn't draw the tag. In other words if 100 tags are drawn, they will draw 105 names. So the resident status will already be determined by the original drawing

The free for all has a certain attraction, but if I had just missed on a tag that I put up 15 points for, it would be nice that I would have a second chance. FYI, I have only had more than 5 points once, for deer, and cashed that in for a High country deer hunt. Will probably never have over 5 points again, so won't be me that benefits, just seems more fair to me.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

ColoradoOak · Dec 20, 2016

Something to consider is how the draw is conducted (which I am not sure about). The way I see it, the first 5 people on the "next up" list are either going to be all NR or all R, depending on the details of how the draw works.

First, the scenario I suspect is how the draw currently works. It typically takes a NR a higher amount of points to draw a high demand license than it takes a R. Once the NR quota is met (20% or 35%) in the draw, I think NR are skipped when successful applicants are drawn. In this scenario, the top people on the "next up" list would be NR, because there are all those NR that had higher points that were skipped.

If, however, NR apps are removed from the draw once the NR quota is met, there is no way a NR would end up on the "next up" list. So the way I see it, the opportunities to accept a returned license will go to all NR or all R. Remember that the NR quota is for the first choice limited draw only. There is nothing in regulation currently that would allow for the R/NR quota to be considered during reissue.

txhunter58 · Dec 20, 2016

Had never thought about it, but you are right. It will be something else for the CPW to decide before hand.

I suspect they will not allow NR to exceed their quota, which means it will be all Rs

However, another way to do it is if it is a NR that returns the tag, the next NR can get it. If resident, then resident. Would make it more complicated but would be the most fair.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

DW · Dec 20, 2016

Figure tx has it about right. Fairest way in my eyes.

txhunter58 · Dec 20, 2016

I would suspect that a higher % of NRs will turn tags back in than residents.

That said, I bet there are a lot of 4th season deer hunters that wish they had turned their tag back in this year! Best dates and lousiest weather in a while!

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

nripepi · Dec 21, 2016

Someone must have thought about the resident vs. Non.

How about groups, do they automatically get thrown out if the group is larger than the number of tags or will each person within the group get put in an order?

brooktrout · Dec 21, 2016

sounds like a can of worms

mntman · Dec 22, 2016

>sounds like a can of worms
>
yep.

No system will ever be perfect cause there are 10,000 hunters out there with 10,001 different ideas on how it should work (perfect for themselves). Keeping it simple is the best solution.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

Cotrapper · Dec 23, 2016

Here is a link to one proposed plan

http://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Co...und_Reissue-Nov2016-PWCMtg.pdf#search=Reissue

Steve

ColoradoOak · Jan 4, 2017

Here is what is being considered for final approval at the commission meeting next week.

http://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Co...17-Ch_W-16-Procedural_Rule-Jan2017-PWCMtg.pdf

elks96 · Jan 4, 2017

Oak... any clarity on the resident vs nonresident issue? After all if done by straight points a NR will always be next in line as they always require more points to draw. Or will the cap still apply and all licenses returned go to residents? I know the question has been raised but never heard an answer unless I missed it.

sticksender · Jan 4, 2017

Total guess on my part, but wouldn't they simply do it same as they do sheep & goat and Moose now? If a resident turns in a license, it's offered to the next residents in line. If a non-resident turns in a license it's offered to the next non-residents in line. Seems simple and straightforward that way.

From the link in Oak's post, they plan to offer the license to the first 5 people in line, then if no takers, it goes on the re-issue list and up for grabs to anyone.

sticksender · Jan 4, 2017

Another comment I found interesting at the end of the procedural rules write-up: "In 2016, only 32% of returned hybrid draw licenses were successfully reissued".

Perhaps most people already had other plans made, or it was just too short of notice when they got called.

ColoradoOak · Jan 4, 2017

>Total guess on my part, but
>wouldn't they simply do it
>same as they do sheep
>& goat and Moose now?
>If a resident turns in
>a license, it's offered to
>the next residents in line.
>If a non-resident turns in
>a license it's offered to
>the next non-residents in line.
>Seems simple and straightforward that
>way.

I have not heard a resolution to the issue, but I have not checked. I broached the question to someone who is very involved in the process a couple of days before making that post here, and I could see the light bulb come on. It was going to be brought up at a subsequent meeting, but I haven't asked.

>Another comment I found interesting at
>the end of the procedural
>rules write-up: "In 2016, only
>32% of returned hybrid draw
>licenses were successfully reissued".
>
>Perhaps most people already had other
>plans made, or it was
>just too short of notice
>when they got called.

That was 10 of 31, if anyone was curious.

ColoradoOak · Jan 11, 2017

The proposal I linked in post 15 was approved by the commission today with no public comment and zero commissioner discussion.

Elkduds · Jan 11, 2017

Thanks for keeping us informed, Oak. Much appreciated.

Now we get to speculate how this might change the draw. For example, should I only apply for B licenses in the draw, with the goal of grabbing an A tag reissue? Then I can decide whether to keep the B tag or return it if I get another A tag leftover.

Cotrapper · Jan 20, 2017

Had to get some cats tagged at the Dow and spent a few minutes talking to them. They informed me that the reissue tags will be online sales only this year. They said it's not drafted yet but that's how they will do it. The counter person also said every Tuesday from August to November it was like leftover day with lines out the door

Steve

Elkduds · Jan 20, 2017

>Had to get some cats tagged
>at the Dow and spent
>a few minutes talking to
>them. They informed me
>that the reissue tags will
>be online sales only this
>year. They said it's
>not drafted yet but that's
>how they will do it.
> The counter person
>also said every Tuesday from
>August to November it was
>like leftover day with lines
>out the door
>
>Steve

Good to know, thanks. I suggested online only in my written feedback to Commissioners.

Thomas11 · Jan 26, 2017

So assume that means everyone could apply for one online or would you still have to go through a licensed dealer as before?

ORIONTHEHUNTER · Jan 26, 2017

You don't apply online they are first come first serve. The way I understand it is online only for all the tags. No waiting at the DOW or any other license vendors. They still need to go to the Wyoming model and give you time to complete the transaction, can't believe they will let 100 people all have the same tag in their cart.

Thomas11 · Jan 26, 2017

Yea I'm sorry I meant first come first serve online so no more having to get a dealer to try and buy the tag? I think this will obviously make it more difficult as more PPL will have an oppourtunity at the tags

ORIONTHEHUNTER · Jan 26, 2017

for sure not to mention the DOW computers will most likely crash since they are never prepared for as much traffic as will be on there

COLOelkman · Jan 29, 2017

I skimmed thru the proposal and didn't see any wording on whether the next 5 inline would be R or NR. I would suspect they'd need to have the next 5 R's and next 5 NR's on their list so depending on whether a R or NR turns their tag in, it would go to the same. Just speculation as the wording just noted the tag would be offered to the next 5 inline. Also I didn't see wording on how much time would be allowed for each person to decide if they wanted it or not. Suppose they could email everyone at once and each responds whether they'd buy it or not, and would likely need to have a response relatively quick or they'd be dropped from consideration. I'd assume they'll work out those details later so someone would need to ask for clarification later. It does seem like a more fair way to issue the tags and would help with the point creep issue.

DesertGhillie · Jan 31, 2017

Seems good. Also, if a R turned the tag in, should go back to a R, and vice versa. I thought it was unfair for the tags to immediately hit the leftover list when people have been waiting years to draw them.

ColoradoOak · Feb 13, 2017

Did everyone notice that reissue licenses will be added to the leftover list "at random intervals" vs. the set Tuesday morning time?

sneakem · Feb 13, 2017

>Did everyone notice that reissue licenses
>will be added to the
>leftover list "at random intervals"
>vs. the set Tuesday morning
>time?

That'll likely kill 30 minutes of my time...every day...lol

http://fenderimages.com/