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Shooting at a moving target?

 
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punkwood2k
(7 posts)
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Sep-28-17, 
11:20 AM (MST)
"Shooting at a moving target?"

How many of you shoot at a walking target? A running target? First time hunter, so how often will an animal be stationary long enough to squeeze off a shot? Is shooting at a moving animal more common than a stationary one?
Also, how do you even practice leading them? I know of ZERO ranges around the state with mobile targets, so there is literally no way to practice besides calculated holdover and hope its right.

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  Table of Contents  

 Subject   Author   Message Date   ID 
 RE: Shooting a...  elks96      Sep-28-17   1 
  RE: Shooting a...  txhunter58      Sep-28-17   2 
 RE: Shooting a...  Elkduds      Sep-28-17   3 
  RE: Shooting a...  jainoon      Sep-28-17   4 
   RE: Shooting a...  txhunter58      Sep-28-17   5 
    RE: Shooting a...  jainoon      Sep-28-17   6 
     RE: Shooting a...  txhunter58      Sep-28-17   7 
      RE: Shooting a...  txhunter58      Sep-28-17   8 
       RE: Shooting a...  txhunter58      Sep-28-17   9 
        RE: Shooting a...  BeanMan      Sep-28-17   10 
         RE: Shooting a...  Elkduds      Sep-28-17   11 
          RE: Shooting a...  Cohntr62      Sep-29-17   12 
       RE: Shooting a...  Cohntr62      Sep-29-17   13 
        RE: Shooting a...  HornedToad      Sep-29-17   14 
       RE: Shooting a...  punkwood2k      Sep-29-17   16 
    RE: Shooting a...  punkwood2k      Sep-29-17   15 
     RE: Shooting a...  txhunter58      Sep-29-17   17 
 RE: Shooting a...  alsatian      Sep-29-17   18 
  RE: Shooting a...  kalielkslay...      Oct-01-17   19 

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elks96
(1650 posts)
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Sep-28-17, 
11:31 AM (MST)
1. "RE: Shooting at a moving target?"

>How many of you shoot at
>a walking target? A running
>target? First time hunter,
>so how often will an
>animal be stationary long enough
>to squeeze off a shot?
> Is shooting at
>a moving animal more common
>than a stationary one?
>Also, how do you even practice
>leading them? I know
>of ZERO ranges around the
>state with mobile targets, so
>there is literally no way
>to practice besides calculated holdover
>and hope its right.

I would lie if I said never, but I also would be over 90% truthful if I said never. I will not take a moving shot. If the animal is not spooked or does not know you are there, even if they know you are there but are at a range they deem safe, they will typically give you a shot. When you get in range the biggest issue is to take your time and make the right shot.

If you get in a hurry then everything will likely fall apart.

I have taken a ton of kids on their first hunts for elk(ages 12 to 14). Almost all will get the perfect shot opportunity. Sometimes it takes a lot of work and a lot of patience, other times the first elk we see will step out broad side and stand.

On big game I will not take a shot at an animal running unless I already hit it. If it is walking then it is calm and it will eventually stop for a shot.

Since you are asking, I am assuming you are relatively new to hunting. As such I would be nearly impossible to expect a new hunter or even a relatively experienced hunter/shooter to be able to find a rest, locate the animal in the scope, and swing in a manner that would allow a high percentage chance of a kill shot. It is just not going to happen often enough to make it even worth trying.

If you want to try, then I suggest coyote hunting. Ask any experienced coyote hunter how easy it is to hit a coyote on the run. It is damn hard. I also figure the size of an adult coyote is about the size of the kill zone on a buck maybe a little smaller. I have shot at enough running coyotes to know that I would never try such a shot on anything bigger....


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txhunter58
(5738 posts)
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Sep-28-17, 
11:42 AM (MST)
2. "RE: Shooting at a moving target?"

LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-17 AT 11:44 AM (MST)

I won't shoot at a moving animal unless I have already shot and wounded it. Then I will try and shoot it again to be sure it dies as quickly and humanely as possible

There are also times I will pass on a shot on a stationary animal because there is not "window" to the vitals. I will only take a clear shot to the heart/lung area because I know that a hit there will put them down fairly quickly

Are there people who can ethically take a shot at a running animal? Sure, but they are 1 in 100. I am in the 99%

How much to lead animal has to take into account how fast the animal is running, the distance to target, and the wind speed and direction. Too many calculations for most of us to make and especially someone just starting out.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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Elkduds
(471 posts)
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Sep-28-17, 
01:43 PM (MST)
3. "RE: Shooting at a moving target?"

>>Also, how do you even practice
>leading them?

I hope all hunters try this before shooting any weapon @ running game: Put a target inside a car tire, filling up the space. Someone rolls the tire downhill, you try to hit the target inside the tire. Try it w an airgun before you waste a lot of rounds. Almost everyone will find this humbling, and you don't have to wound game or risk safety to prove the point of how difficult this shooting is.

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jainoon
(244 posts)
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Sep-28-17, 
03:52 PM (MST)
4. "RE: Shooting at a moving target?"

This right here! If you can hit the tire target you can hit the game! We used to conduct deer drives with shotguns back when there weren't a lot of deer in our neck of the woods. The deer were always running and the hunters were always missing. Then we started requiring everyone to qualify for our drives with the tire target. Success rates went up exponentially. Instead of 1 or 2 deer at the end of the day we now had 10 or 11!! I dont drive deer or hunt them with shotguns any longer but when a big muley buck broke out on a dead run at 275 yards a few years back, instinct took over and 3 shots from my 7mm magnum and he was down with 3 shots all grouped in the lethal zone of his chest. Practice practice practice til it becomes second nature!
Jainoon

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txhunter58
(5738 posts)
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Sep-28-17, 
05:23 PM (MST)
5. "RE: Shooting at a moving target?"

Remember that we are giving advice to a novice. And remember that shooting at deer with buckshot at close range and shooting at one at 300 yards with a high powered rifle are totally different. The truth is when your guys came back with 1 or 2, there were 6 or 8 that ran off wounded and died later. That was a different time than we are facing today.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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jainoon
(244 posts)
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Sep-28-17, 
06:18 PM (MST)
6. "RE: Shooting at a moving target?"

Sorry I should have clarified that buckshot was not allowed...slugs or pumpkinballs only. Not many run off when hit by a 69 caliber slug. The last sentence..."practice, practice,practice, until it becomes second nature" still rings true.

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txhunter58
(5738 posts)
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Sep-28-17, 
06:37 PM (MST)
7. "RE: Shooting at a moving target?"

They do when shot thru the abdomen, but otherwise true. Still we have a novice asking for advice and practice with a tire is the advice we are going to leave him with?

So, can anyone tell me where he should aim if he is shooting downhill at a 45 degree angle for a "stotting" mule deer traveling at 20 mph with a 25 mph wind traveling the same direction as he is. Of course when hunting in the mountains, 400 yards can look like 250, so how far is he? Since he busted from some oakbrush, you don't have time to range him. How much do you lead??

I see the OP is taking his son with him and I am sure he doesn't want for his first experience to be to seeing his dad wound an animal that he never finds. Adrenalin ("buck fever") can screw up even a standing shot sometimes. Get 10 years under your belt and then we can talk.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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txhunter58
(5738 posts)
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Sep-28-17, 
06:42 PM (MST)
8. "RE: Shooting at a moving target?"

LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-17 AT 06:59 PM (MST)

BTW punkwood, did you know if you shoot at a severe angle you have to aim a little lower than normal. Doesn't matter if you are shooting uphill or downhill, the bullet will fly slightly higher than when shooting on a flat range.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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txhunter58
(5738 posts)
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Sep-28-17, 
06:50 PM (MST)
9. "RE: Shooting at a moving target?"

And stotting is done commonly by deer and sometimes elk where they jump forward on all 4 feet like a pogo sick instead of just running like a whitetail. Up and down action with each leap, so not in anything resembling a straight line.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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BeanMan
(5331 posts)
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Sep-28-17, 
07:20 PM (MST)
10. "RE: Shooting at a moving target?"

The only animal I will shoot at on the run is a coyote, typically after I miss it standing still.

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Elkduds
(471 posts)
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Sep-28-17, 
09:22 PM (MST)
11. "RE: Shooting at a moving target?"

My post RE the rolling tire was intended to illustrate the difficulty and risk of wounding involved w shooting @ running game, and to discourage same. In case I was unclear, I never take a shot I do not have complete confidence in as a killing shot. Animals trip, jump, stott, move over undulating terrain, get obscured by brush, speed up, slow, change direction, run among others in a herd... There is no way to predict all that in taking a running shot.

If your target is already wounded, then keep shooting.

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Cohntr62
(291 posts)
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Sep-29-17, 
06:40 AM (MST)
12. "RE: Shooting at a moving target?"

I'm from Pennsylvania and shooting at running deer is pretty common here, mostly at less than 100 yds and in the woods. In the woods, it is best to pick out an open spot ahead of the moving animal and shoot as it is coming into the crosshairs, rather than swinging with the moving deer. It is often the only shot you will get, a lot different than the open country of the west.

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Cohntr62
(291 posts)
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Sep-29-17, 
06:46 AM (MST)
13. "RE: Shooting at a moving target?"

>LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-17
>AT 06:59 PM (MST)

>
>BTW punkwood, did you know if
>you shoot at a severe
>angle you have to aim
>a little lower than normal.
> Doesn't matter if you
>are shooting uphill or downhill,
>the bullet will fly slightly
>higher than when shooting on
>a flat range.
>
>txhunter58
>
>venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore
>I am)

This is only true if you are shooting at a range where bullet drop is a factor. The drop is determined by the horizontal range to the target, not by the actual distance which is greater when you're shooting up or downhill.

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HornedToad
(289 posts)
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Sep-29-17, 
09:59 AM (MST)
14. "RE: Shooting at a moving target?"

The ram I shot last year in Wyoming was running. Ordinarily, I try to avoid running shots, but this ram was moving straight at 150 yards and about to gain the cover of an approaching slope. And I was in a solid sitting position, which is how I learned to shoot as a boy. I touched off when the crosshairs were three inches in front of the ram and hit him in the lungs, though about three inches forward of an ideal placement, so maybe a brisket hold would have been better. In any event, it was a one-shot kill. At 150 yards a modern bullet is moving pretty quick, so not much lead is necessary on any animal at that range, with perhaps the exception of a pronghorn moving flat out. Earlier that day I had passed on a shot at a walking ram, but he was at 550 yards with a strong crosswind. Conditions and range often dictate when a running shot can be taken ethically.

Regarding advice to a novice, I grew up shooting a lot of running jackrabbits (and occasionally running coyotes) with a .222. Practice, and experience, is essential. If you have not practiced shooting at running targets, a lot, do not shoot at running rams! They are magnificent creatures and deserve better than a wounding shot.

BTW, my Wyoming ram, at 175 4/8, was recognized by WYOGA as the top ram submitted in 2016. Already this year I have seen pics of three rams taken in the mid-180's. Wyoming is turning out some quality bighorns in 2017.

Good luck in the draws!

HT

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punkwood2k
(7 posts)
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Sep-29-17, 
10:22 AM (MST)
16. "RE: Shooting at a moving target?"

>LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-17
>AT 06:59 PM (MST)

>
>BTW punkwood, did you know if
>you shoot at a severe
>angle you have to aim
>a little lower than normal.
> Doesn't matter if you
>are shooting uphill or downhill,
>the bullet will fly slightly
>higher than when shooting on
>a flat range.
>
>txhunter58
>
>venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore
>I am)


Yes.. Just FYI, I was a Marksman in the Air Force (go ahead and laugh, lol).. I compete in Amateur 1000 yd bench with the same rifle I'm taking to the field. So yeah, skills, you dont have to worry about here. I'm going more for the Morals / Etiquette advice here, than any skills-advice.. Cheers!

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punkwood2k
(7 posts)
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Sep-29-17, 
10:13 AM (MST)
15. "RE: Shooting at a moving target?"

LAST EDITED ON Sep-29-17 AT 02:02 PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Sep-29-17 AT 10:25 AM (MST)

>Remember that we are giving advice
>to a novice. And
>remember that shooting at deer
>with buckshot at close range
>and shooting at one at
>300 yards with a high
>powered rifle are totally different.
>

Just to clarify, I'm a novice "hunter", not a novice shooter. Skills wise, I could hit a moving target with no problem, 20 years ago in the military.. but its a perishable skill, and like I said, no where to refresh that skill. Rolling a tire down a hill is a wonderful idea... Now I just need a friend with some hilly property, lol Also, read above about Coyote hunting.. Now THATS a good idea.. Dont think I'd have any problem finding landowners to let me practice for that..


I guess this is more of a "should you" vs a "could you" question.

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txhunter58
(5738 posts)
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Sep-29-17, 
11:20 AM (MST)
17. "RE: Shooting at a moving target?"

Yes, and you would have to roll that tire down hill at 100, 200, 300, 400 yards. And factor in the wind in about a tenth of a second. Sounds like you have to skills, but as stated, not the current practice. Only you can make that call.

Cohntr62 said:

"This is only true if you are shooting at a range where bullet drop is a factor. The drop is determined by the horizontal range to the target, not by the actual distance which is greater when you're shooting up or downhill."

Actually, no, if you have your rifle sighted in for zero at 200 yards and you shoot at an animal at 200 yards down a steep slope, the bullet will strike higher than where your crosshairs say it will for exactly the reason you state, the horizontal distance. In that example, 2 inches probably won't make a big difference, but it is something to think about. And more to your point, my brother missed a buck multiple times standing broadside at 400 yards because he held to high and shot over him

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

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alsatian
(481 posts)
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Sep-29-17, 
01:24 PM (MST)
18. "RE: Shooting at a moving target?"

LAST EDITED ON Sep-29-17 AT 01:29 PM (MST)

This is a judgment call. You just have to ask yourself at the time if the shot feels comfortable.

I shot a cow elk in 2014 that was trotting at half speed, quartering towards me (the quartering reduces the apparent sideways velocity). She was followed at a distance by a smaller cow. I'm pretty sure they had been spooked by someone well away from where I was hunting, probably someone leaving their spot at the end of their morning hunt, as this was 10 AM. I shot three shots with a bolt action rifle in rapid succession from about 70 yards. I could see no reaction from the cow to my shots, but I felt certain I must have made a killing shot on her. I was seated and propped my elbows on my knees and just swung my torso (this was not an "offhand" shooting position).

When I found the cow she was not far from where I lost sight of her (I was nestled in some trees, and she went out of sight as she went to my side). Two of the shots had landed about six inches apart, just in the right place (forward on the shoulder towards me, about midway from the bottom of the body to the back). One of the bullet holes was wider than was to be expected. That could have been the third shot landing or it could just be back-splash from a bone that made the wound larger. That cow died very fast and was hard hit. I used .30-06 180 grain CoreLokt bullets.

I do not practice this shot. As I say, it just felt comfortable. I had my scope on about 3.5X, which makes following a moving animal easier. When the animal is not moving fast, I don't think you have to lead them. I consciously gave some lead on one shot, and I think that may have been the shot that missed (if the enlarged wound was not a double hit -- and it seems unlikely it was a double hit).

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kalielkslayer
(258 posts)
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Oct-01-17, 
09:04 AM (MST)
19. "RE: Shooting at a moving target?"

Inside 100 yards, all day long. And I don't put the scope up and let them run into it. I track em.

I shoot 75-200+ quail and chukar every year so maybe that experience makes it seem easy to me, I don't know . To me, pulling a double, triple, quad out of a covey of chukar while standing on steep, rocky ground while sucking wind is way more difficult than finding a animal in my scope and shooting it inside 100 yards.

Much further away than 100 yards, the only way I take a running shot is if the animal is already hit.

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