FREE Arizona Strip Info

TGRschank · May 25, 2015

Last year I spotted a good size buck in the strip. I went hiking out there a few weeks later to find some places to put out some trail cams. After finding a remote water tank covered in deer tracks, I went to set a cam when a guy showed up. He told me I was either there to poach or guide. I told him I'm from Nevada and have no desire to poach or guide but was just out looking for deer. He told me BS and said he has guided there for years and illegal guides like me are ruining his business. Told me that he knew the right kind of people and if he saw me out there he would turn me in for guiding without a license. I decided not to set a cam cause I figured it wasn't worth losing a camera.

Now that I've read a few post on here about the guides in this area, I decided I'm going to go back out there, set some cams, and post the pictures I get with the GPS coordinates of the deers locations. I hate when guides think they own the public land they guide on. All info will be free of charge and available to all.

Anyone else out there who is sick of the strip bully guides please help and do the same.

AZMIGHTYMULIES · May 25, 2015

call me : 435-216-8126 . If this is something you sincerely experienced , well it certainly isn't tolerated thats for sure . I have some info for ya .
Mike.

AZMIGHTYMULIES · May 25, 2015

Going about it the way you are doing is not the proper way of addressing such an issue . I'm out there on a regular basis with a whole different agenda . Yes I do search for those Giant Muleys but my primary objective is getting #'s on Mountain Lions and reporting info to Local Biologists . However due to my 23 years experience out there I love to share info to the Solo Hunters when they need help and have done so repetitively , even right here in this Forum .
However , by just saying " Hey everyone , here's free info" you're just gonna mae matters worse for you . There are many many Guides out there so many I've lost track . But I do know the Veterans of the AZ Strip , A3 , MDA , and Muley Crazy , I do not see them making such derogatory actions . They're good people and they could care less if you're some random joe setting up a camera . These Guys a lot more knowledge than you do , so they wouldn't jeopardize there license .
Likely if anything it was a Random Solo Guide that came from who knows where ? Or maybe the individual themselves is a poacher ? A lot of time the accuser is the Guilty one .
Anyways , I wouldn't worry about it , just go about your business .

azhuntin · May 25, 2015

TGRschank,

It is too bad that hunting has come to this. It is very bad on the strip, unit 9 and others. You are right many guides think they OWN areas and or the animals in them. I wish AZ game and fish would ban the use of trail cams. I have them and like to use them, but it is out of hand. Every water source on the strip has at least 1 camera if not a dozen.

I heard from a very reliable source that one of the big time strip guides had messed with the auction hunter a couple years ago. Trying to chase the target buck out of the country so the guy who paid all the money for the tag did not get it.

If you want to go out and provide info, I say do it. You have the same right as anyone else to go out there. I am sick and tired of hearing about these issues, especially on the strip. It is getting out of control.

goinhuntn · May 26, 2015

We have just as much right to be out on public land as the guides do!! The guide problem isn't just limited to the strip either!!

AZMIGHTYMULIES · May 26, 2015

azhuntin : is 100% correct . One of the members here I helped out in 2013 providing Him maps , pics of Bucks etc in a few locations . He went to Check some of his cameras and one of the Guides were trying to prevent Him from Checking His cameras by blocking the main access to the whole Mountain in fact . Apparently last year one of the Guides also was preventing Tourists from driving through to get to a specific area to view the Grand Canyon . Ridiculous !!!
What I do know for 100% fact , is that AZG&F will be implementing some kind of regulation on Trail Cameras going into 2016 season . I initially thought it was going to be this year , is how I initially interpreted it . But the Article Team implements these kind of of Regulations on a 5 year cycle . But the use of Trail Cameras is the hottest item that the Article Team will be addressing . Currently they are accepting comments or proposals .

sagebrush · May 26, 2015

Simple solution to the trail cam issue. You must have a permit to photograph for commercial purposes in a national forest currently. Just need to enforce the regulation on trail cams and expand it to cover BLM as well. Make Big Fin unhappy because the regulation would make it more difficult and costly for him to produce his program but it would eliminate the problem with the guides and professional scouters.

"You can fly a helicopter to the top of Everest and say you've been there. The problem with that is you were an a$$hole when you started and you're still an a$$hole when you get back.
Its the climb that makes you a different person". - Yvon Chouinard

Guns_Buns_N_Beers · May 26, 2015

Just ban the damn things! And I say this while owning a few cams myself. They are completely out of control and it's only getting worse. Anything other than a complete ban would be nothing but a band-aid solution. The only thing I can see being a viable solution other than a complete ban would be some kind of permit like sagebrush mentioned and making it illegal to put up a camera within a 1/4 mile of water sources. A complete ban would still be the best and easiest solution.

Guns_Buns_N_Beers · May 26, 2015

BTW cool idea TGRschank. Looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

WHITETAILFREAK · May 26, 2015

So by banning trail cameras its going to solve the problems with guides who continue the harassment of the average joe hunter?????
I think everyone understands that they are putting a camera up with a chance of it being stolen. I guess I just dont by that the root of the problem soley rests with the TRAIL CAMERA... Maybe they should try a few season of banning the outfitter??? People just need to grow up and have a little respect, or perhaps maybe they need a good ol @$$ kickin!

fullmetal · May 26, 2015

Totally agree with whitetailfreak camera's are not the main problem it's people and in this case it's guides/outfitters no means am I saying all guides and outfitters are bad but let me say this there are a few that give bad names to good one's and having 20 guys under 1 guide out in the field looking for 1 animal is ridiculous all that is doing is putting more pressure on the animals and more people in the field that don't have tags so instead of outlawing cameras let's put some restriction on the guides/outfitters at this point guides get away with a lot of things that they should not be allowed to get away with and remember this is public land to be used by all just my 2cents

AZMIGHTYMULIES · May 26, 2015

I forgot to mention . There will not be a complete Ban on Trail Cameras due to the overall popularity of the Cameras and different uses or purposes at which they are being used for and it's very unlikely of prohibiting the uses on Water sources because one, thats not the problem and two a lot of individual user's attain viable Research Data due to the Wildlife's need for water .
The likely scenarios the are being sought is a Ban on Cameras for specific time periods such as : 1 Week Prior and through the Hunting Season , or : Registering Cameras with a limited Camera utilization .
This information comes from the Horses Mouth ( Assistant Director Jim Paxon) .

AZ4life · May 26, 2015

I don't think cameras should be banned. They are such a useful and fun tool. My kids and I love seeing what game has been in the mountains near our home and in the units I hunt when we aren't around. 98% of the state has no problems with cameras, why pull a real Big Government move and over-react just for the those limited occurrences. The problems is not cameras, it is concentrated guides and hunters in small areas fighting, sometimes literally, for a specific animal or animals. You will still have that even without camera use.

wildfin · May 26, 2015

you dont have to worry much about the cameras by the time they ban them every one will have drones flying day and night, then the guides can track the buck until there client arrives.

YBO · May 26, 2015

My husband is calling out the original poster of this post to let the cat out of the bag. Who is the guide/outfitter that treated you so unkindly?

TGRschank · May 26, 2015

I have no idea who the outfitter was. He told me it's none of my business. I tried looking for a vehicle to see if it had anything on it, but I couldn't find any vehicle.

DonMartin · May 26, 2015

Just a question..how do you KNOW the guy you spoke with was even a GUIDE if he didn't identify himself?

FYI, I have NEVER had any issues with nya guide or guides up there and I'm there every year!

I've seen the drinkers up there with 10 or more cameras on them. The bucks must feel like rock starts when they come in and all the flashes go off. LOL

But seeing a buck on a camera and getting him dead in a Grip N Grin photo is two different things.

During the rut, bucks move, and sometimes they move a lot!

Now I know some of the "boys" up there have many people out there looking for them.

It is a BUSINESS for which they pay a lot of money to get into, and then maintain. One guy told me he has over 175 cameras.

They get MAJOR money from wealthy clients who have applied like many of us, for years and years for a tag.

Then there is the few who have the VERY WEALTHY clients who buy a tag for mega money at the auction.

This year I think the tag sold for over $300,000! Guess what guys? ALL THAT MONEY GOES INTO ONLY DEER PROJECTS IN ARIZONA WHICH ULTIMATELY MEANS MORE DEER AND PERMITS OUT THERE!

Now I'm a outfitter/guide and am a very small operation. Besides myself, I have only a couple of fellas that help me out.

I cater to the blue collar guys who have saved and saved to go on this hunt and don't think that paying $3,500 is too much for some help on this literally once-in-a-lifetime hunt. Do the math, you think I'm making a lot on these hunts? Nope, but I do enjoy helping out!

Remember, it is the AZ G&F Dept. that authorizes the sale of these auction tags and allow the raffles to go on.

I hope Mike is WRONG about the banning of cameras, guess we'll see how it plays out. I've got exactly 5 cameras right now.

In the mean time if you have issues with anyone out there, take pictures of their vehicles and of them if possible.

A few bad apples in the barrel doesn't mean the barrel is spoiled.

Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters
16 deer points and counting!

Guns_Buns_N_Beers · May 27, 2015

>I don't think cameras should be
>banned. They are such a
>useful and fun tool. My
>kids and I love seeing
>what game has been in
>the mountains near our home
>and in the units I
>hunt when we aren't around.
>98% of the state has
>no problems with cameras, why
>pull a real Big Government
>move and over-react just for
>the those limited occurrences. The
>problems is not cameras, it
>is concentrated guides and hunters
>in small areas fighting, sometimes
>literally, for a specific animal
>or animals. You will still
>have that even without camera
>use.

Pretty sure more than 2% of the state have a problem with trail cams.... a lot more than 2% actually. My kids do love seeing the trail cam pics we get and really enjoy using them. They'd be upset if they couldn't use them anymore but they'd get over it fairly quickly.

You are correct in saying the concentration of guides and hunter causes problems but not just between guides and hunters but anyone that hunts. One of the main reason hunters congregate in an area is because of a water source. Too many guys have this mentality that the own a water source just because they have a camera or blind on it. Fighting over theses water sources is the main catalyst of the hunter on hunter confrontations. Easy solution to greatly reduce hunter confrontations is not allowing hunters to put up any foreign objects within 1/4 mile of a water source whether it be a blind or trail cam. BAM!!! Problem solved.. Now what can we do about this long range hunting crap.

AZMIGHTYMULIES · May 27, 2015

Regulation of Cameras placed at only 1/4 mile from a water source will only promote other problems . One problem that was suggested by one of the Managers is that you'd likely be seeing even more cameras , only they'd be spread out all over the place setting a perimeter around a Water Source . This will only fuel the flames of which the environmentalists have been presenting .
Second , and we all know this , Trail Cams have revolutionized the ways We hunt , the ways Wildlife enthusiasts observe Wildlife , and ways at which Researchers are able to benefit collecting data by utilizing Trail Cams . Water being a key and vital source for survival , a Water source is a key resource to obtain great data for wildlife .
Hence the reason a Ban on Cameras is out of the question and or only permitting Cameras w/n 1/4 mile of Water sources .
There are currently 321 documented Wildlife Water Catchments on the AZ Strip , between 13a and 13b . There are dozens of dirt tanks and springs that sustain water year round as well . When the Bigger Outfitters (as we all know who they are) utilize 200+ Cameras on each unit , then you get several solo hunters utilizing cameras , you get very High concentration of Hunters in certain areas getting pics of the same Bucks. This is generally the cause of the most problems we have been seeing . Too many Cameras in too many areas = too many entitlement issues . By the way ... this isn't exclusive to just the AZ Strip .
So by Registering and Limiting the use of Cameras, (Whether it's 10 , 20, 30 Cameras) , obviously it would result to less pressure and concentrations in all areas . The other beneficial factor as well is the Biological Diversity in Mule Deer would improve due to more Bucks being overlooked and slipping through the cracks .

Guns_Buns_N_Beers · May 27, 2015

Never thought of it like that. So what your saying is if there ever was a 1/4 rule put in place that instead of a guy putting one T.C. at a water he would be putting multiple cams all around the water. Yea this could happen but seems highly unlikely that it would cause anymore problems than what are caused by having T.C. on water. A very simple fix to this ever happening is to implement a rule like you suggested where guys will have a limited amount of cams and all cams need to be registered. This is actually a very good idea I'm glad you brought it up. So on top of the 1/4 mile rule guys will now have a set amount of registered cams they can use. What a great solution to the problem. It's a win win when you think about it. Guys get to keep putting out cams and there will be less conflicts. Because lets face it even if the G&F only allowed 10 registered cams per hunter as long as they can still put them on water sources there will still be conflicts between hunters.

As far as the research done by cams on water I see no problem with still allowing this to happen if a 1/4 mile rule is put into place. As long as the research is approved by the G&F, BLM or Forest Service. If approved the researcher is then issued a special research permit that allows them to place cams on water. No biggie really.

Sorry TGRschank for getting a bit off topic. Hope you never have to go through an experience like this again. Too bad you didn't get the name of the guy or the guide service if he was in fact a guide. That would have been some good info for everyone to know. Good luck to ya!

ruthunter · May 29, 2015

LAST EDITED ON May-29-15 AT 01:14PM (MST)[p]Im due for a strip tag this year. Im going 100% DIY so if I draw I will be up there 24/7 until the hunt starts.I own 10 cameras so im guessing I will run into a few outfitters. If I draw ill take any info guys want to share. I will not let any outfitter get in my way on where I hunt. I f anything they better be scared that I might shoot there buck!

azdogman · May 29, 2015

Limiting the amount of cameras one guy can have will do no good. He will just register as many cameras as allowed with all family and friends and still have 200 out. Restricting time they are allowed out might help a bit. But I agree with the op on guides feeling entitled. Total joke. I had a run in with one of the big name guides up there a few years back.

Broomer · May 31, 2015

Stop trying to regulate our freedom!!!! If I want a cam I can have one. It's America!

Gator · Jun 1, 2015

Put those cam's up and share. 16 points going into this year.
I got a little wait yet. But where Big Bucks grow this year another will take his place if he is killed, In one place, I have killed good bucks under the same tree 4 times in 11 years. Good bucks like the same things good Cover, Wind and a sight picture, Etc, and the easy escape routes.
If you need a couple of more camera's to use, I will send them.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]

zukicrazy · Jun 4, 2015

LAST EDITED ON Jun-04-15 AT 07:08PM (MST)[p]I Had a strip tag last year all the guides I ran in to sucked ,they acted like they owned the place I learned a lot and I wont hold back any info .I didn't have any issues with trail cameras .

DW · Jun 4, 2015

Hmmmm....interesting

Guns_Buns_N_Beers · Jun 4, 2015

Very interesting....Wonder who this guy is?

DW · Jun 5, 2015

https://youtu.be/Hk_-XWpUFmU

nontypical · Jun 5, 2015

How do we know who to watch out for if no one tells us his name??

zukicrazy · Jun 5, 2015

LAST EDITED ON Jun-05-15 AT 06:42PM (MST)[p](Mike) ,he started off giving free info then bam started offering guide and scouting packages did some research and wow found a lot of stuff on this guy , called a couple well no guides I have built there hunting rigs and they told me to stay away from him .

zukicrazy · Jun 5, 2015

LAST EDITED ON Jun-05-15 AT 06:48PM (MST)[p]It was amazing on all the bucks I found cant wait to go back

DW · Jun 5, 2015

So this wasnt the full story zukicrazy?http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID33/2624.html#.VXJiSoHnbqA

Founder · Jun 5, 2015

I don't think we need to go into all that about Mike. I don't know anything about it, but we don't need to start throwing allegations and getting a bunch of crap going here.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!

muleybull · Jun 6, 2015

Me and a couple friends started guiding years ago mainly because we love to hunt and it was an opportunity to get to hunt every year.

The problem as I see it isnt the number of cameras someone owns, or the placement on water holes. The problem stems down to individuals and their morals.

We try to be respectful to everyone out there with us trying to hunt public land. Sometimes we mess each other up, its gonna happen when were all out there at the same time trying to reach the same goal.

But there are a few individuals out there that give a large number a bad name. This doesnt stop with trail cameras. Ive seen hunters get friends to sit several waters during a hunt to keep permitted hunters off certain waters. Ive seen hunters driving cross country during deer hunts, so on and so forth.

To get rid of any of these problems, the law needs to crack down on those few individuals that are causing the problem. A guide that has a paying client has to remember he has no added privledges compared to the DIY guy.

Crack down on the trouble makers, hold licensed guides to a higher level and make the punishment steep, really steep for repeat offenders.

Remember, were all out there to have fun, so dont sweat the small stuff, crack down on the problem makers.

www.muleybulloutfitters.com

StripBuckHunter · Jun 6, 2015

>I don't think we need to
>go into all that about
>Mike. I don't know anything
>about it, but we don't
>need to start throwing allegations
>and getting a bunch of
>crap going here.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!

Sure would like to see Mr. Mike post some great cam pics of bucks or even the Strip countryside on this forum since he seems to be able to continually brag about his prowess here and take from this forum instead of contributing to it.

Sheeesh.

Largebull · Jun 6, 2015

Wish somebody would get mad and post pics and Elk info on unit 10 .I have Bull tag in Sept. with a rifle. Is that a good hunt?.............BULL1

ruthunter · Jun 6, 2015

LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-15 AT 07:44PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-15 AT 07:44?PM (MST)

Just listened to Jay Scott's podcast with A3 about the strip. A3 said they will have 100 cameras in 13b and roughly 80 in 13a. Here lies the problem..other guys will get pics of the same bucks and now you have multiple guys hunting the same deer! That's typically when guys think they own rights to a buck. I'm not saying anything bad about A3 I'm just using them as a reference about cams.

DonMartin · Jun 10, 2015

Large Bull, I would say YES that you have a good tag if it says Unit 10 early rifle bull...Lol

Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters

billythekid · Jun 10, 2015

most of the guys out there destroying other peoples property, having conflicts over bucks, staking claims to areas, etc.... are the DIY guys that don't spend more than a year up there and have little accountability to those who frequent the strip year after year and feel comfortable acting like hooligans... not the guides who have to set a good example because they plan on staying around awhile and burning bridges gets them nowhere.

StripBuckHunter · Jun 10, 2015

>most of the guys out there
>destroying other peoples property, having
>conflicts over bucks, staking claims
>to areas, etc.... are
>the DIY guys that don't
>spend more than a year
>up there and have little
>accountability to those who frequent
>the strip year after year
>and feel comfortable acting like
>hooligans... not the guides
>who have to set a
>good example because they plan
>on staying around awhile and
>burning bridges gets them nowhere.
>

Are you kidding me, Dude?? Really!!!

The hooligans who have created this game cam, protectionism, selfishness scenario........are the ones who have the most $$$ and job security at risk. That ain't the one-time, DIY guys.

Just which planet have you been living on??