Waiting to hear from AZ G&F Director Larry Voyles

DonMartin · Mar 9, 2016

As many of you know, I try to keep on what's going on within the Arizona Game & Fish Department. They are the agency that manages the state's wildlife.

It is we, the sportsman that for the most part fund the agency.

I have supported and will continue to support the Department on most issues. But when I think they need a kick, I'm not afraid to say I don't agree.

Recently I learned of some information regarding the discussions between the Navajo Nation and the Department in regards to the fees that are going to be charged to sportsmen who are lucky enough to draw tags there this year.

I have written to Director Voyles asking for clarification of the details of the agreement with the Navajo Nation by the Department.

In the interest of fairness, I'll not put here what I have been told; but rather will wait until I hear from the Director. Then I'll let you, the Arizona sportsman, know what I've learned.

In the mean time those of you who are lucky this year and got one of the elk, antelope, deer or sheep tags there, enjoy your hunt, that is for the most part, a great place to hunt!

Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters

brushstomper · Mar 20, 2016

Thanks Don!!! We appreciate all the insight you provide and willingness to help others!!!!

flyingspearnv · Mar 21, 2016

Thanks Don. Hopefully you'll hear something soon, as the race to buy permits looms!

PIOCHE2014 · Mar 21, 2016

How and where do you buy permits when it's time?

Blank · Mar 21, 2016

Info is on the website. Available third week in July.

https://huntbigboranch.com/permits/

DonMartin · Mar 22, 2016

I got tired of waiting on Director Voyles, so I emailed each and every one of the G&F Commissioners, telling them I had written to Director Voyles and had not received any response.

Guess what? NOTHING FROM ANY OF THEM TOO!

Wonder what the "BIG SECRET" is that the AZ G&F Department has in regards the agreement with the Navajo Nation?

Isn't the Department suppose to be transparent when it comes to dealing with issues that affect sportsmen?

The question is why don't they want you, the sportsman to know the answer?

YBO · Mar 22, 2016

You can be assured of at least one thing...the AZ taxpaying/sportsmen are going to get screwed.

billythekid · Mar 23, 2016

LAST EDITED ON Mar-23-16 AT 09:34PM (MST)[p]i know i know... most here don't like the statewide tags. however, i purchased the az. antelope tag good from august 15, 2015-august 14, 2016. last yr. i tried to hunt the ranch first thing and was told by mr. lee murphy, owner of exclusive pursuit outfitters http://exclusivepursuitoutfitters.com, that i could not access the ranch until the general draw archery hunters could. even though i didn't really understand, mr. murphy told me in written form that albeit it is a disadvantage this yr. that the rules of the ranch are they war they are. he then assured me that if i did not harvest an antelope last fall, 2015, i could access the ranch with appropriate fees and hunt it through seasons end. since my tag runs through the summer and until august 14th, i told him that i would bypass the fall 2015 season and utilize the opportunity the following summer. he told me that would be fine and would play to my advantage. with the new rules that just came out, i called mr. murphy to inquire about his commitment to me that he gave me in both email and verbally in the fall of 2015, since the new rules conflicted. he then retracted his offer and said i would not be able to access the ranch this summer. i told him that was in direct conflict with his email promise to me. he said he didn't care. then i find out that the auction hunter for 2016 booked to hunt a buck exclusively with mr. murphy on the big bo... hmm, wonder why i can't go on there. this outfit is behind all the rules affecting you as a hunter and your ability to enjoy the big bo. shoot away folks. this is a reality.

msolocam · Mar 24, 2016

You're not the only one that seems to think there is a conflict of interest there billythekid.

I'll keep my eyes peeled for a big goat.

huntcrazyinCA · Mar 24, 2016

>LAST EDITED ON Mar-23-16
>AT 09:34?PM (MST)
>
>i know i know... most
>here don't like the statewide
>tags. however, i purchased
>the az. antelope tag good
>from august 15, 2015-august 14,
>2016. last yr. i
>tried to hunt the ranch
>first thing and was told
>by mr. lee murphy, owner
>of exclusive pursuit outfitters http://exclusivepursuitoutfitters.com,
>that i could not access
>the ranch until the general
>draw archery hunters could.
>even though i didn't really
>understand, mr. murphy told me
>in written form that albeit
>it is a disadvantage this
>yr. that the rules of
>the ranch are they war
>they are. he then
>assured me that if i
>did not harvest an antelope
>last fall, 2015, i could
>access the ranch with appropriate
>fees and hunt it through
>seasons end. since my
>tag runs through the summer
>and until august 14th, i
>told him that i would
>bypass the fall 2015 season
>and utilize the opportunity the
>following summer. he told
>me that would be fine
>and would play to my
>advantage. with the new
>rules that just came out,
>i called mr. murphy to
>inquire about his commitment to
>me that he gave me
>in both email and verbally
>in the fall of 2015,
>since the new rules conflicted.
> he then retracted his
>offer and said i would
>not be able to access
>the ranch this summer.
>i told him that was
>in direct conflict with his
>email promise to me.
>he said he didn't care.
> then i find out
>that the auction hunter for
>2016 booked to hunt a
>buck exclusively with mr. murphy
>on the big bo... hmm,
>wonder why i can't go
>on there. this outfit
>is behind all the rules
>affecting you as a hunter
>and your ability to enjoy
>the big bo. shoot
>away folks. this is
>a reality.

Just to kinda echo what you said, I know for a FACT that one of his "partners" was on there as well hunting when no one else could be on the ranch hunting....also I have a buddy that guides in Az, and I personally spoke to him on the phone as he was on the ranch keeping an eye on a bull they had a "high dollar" client waiting to come and hunt....also at the same time when no one else was allowed on the ranch....
I think its ALL a bunch of BS!!!

billythekid · Mar 24, 2016

most irate part about it.... I grew up in az my entire life. have 22 bp for antelope. didn't have enough money to put in for two different species as a child/teenager, worked my way up, can afford to donate back to antelope conservation in az., paid for it, wanted to use this tag to hunt around the fourth of july holiday with my own kids and wife on the big bo for a family vacation, was promised both verbally and in writing by mr. murphy that this would be possible with my tag, and then..... conflict of interest. those guys are something else. there you have it. good luck with them sportsmen. they are slimy...

CraigS · Mar 24, 2016

LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-16 AT 06:42PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-16 AT 06:39?PM (MST)

I am responding ONCE, because I took exception to one comment Mr. Rhoton made.

First, yeah I was on the ranch taking pictures for the website as I did do most of the design for FREE. My goal was to actually show the entire ranch with images. We wanted to show the work that was done to the roads & waterlines.

Did I look at elk & other animals while on the ranch for a day & a half the first part of July?

Come on, you know any one that loves to hunt would have.

WE had a BIG money client hunting the ranch???

We didn't even hunt on the Big Bo Ranch on ANY of the elk hunts in 2014 or 2015. I hunted it in 2015 w/ x1 goat hunter, NONE in 2014. Period. END.

FYI-I bought my own permit to hunt deer & NEVER even hunted the ranch. I have bought a permit to hunt deer every year since the program was developed.

Shane,

Your "slimy" comments are uncalled for and PATHETIC! You have never even met me or talked with me! I won't comment on any of the other details because I am not involved in any of that process, but I know you are not laying out all of it.

END.

Lee & I are hunting with an archery hunter on one of the 2016/17 Antelope Auction Tags. Neither him nor I have been on the ranch since I guided the antelope hunter last August. PERIOD!

Don,

I imagine the G&F will have to eventually release the terms of the agreement. I personally do NOT know the finer details as I don't get involved with this process. I want to see what is in the agreement as well, but I am thankful that the ranch is still open for a nominal fee (at least to me it's nominal).

If you have any more questions or comments about me or us, you can email me at

[email protected] or call me at 928.315.5889

-Craig Steele

billythekid · Mar 24, 2016

LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-16 AT 08:06PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-16 AT 07:57?PM (MST)

craig,

my comment about slimy does not have to do with you. however, it does have to do with those behind the decisions. i would have no idea if you are involved or not. i have never met or spoke with you. yes, i stand behind what i say. whether it is the navajo nation, the azgfd, or the ranch managers... which i believe lee murphy is one. the decision is slimy. who is slimy is a misunderstanding or perhaps poorly written on my part. however, i can't go back and edit that, it won't let me. anyway i look at it, there is much slime to be had. there is not much else to the story. lee murphy told me verbally and wrote in an email prior to making my decisions to not hunt my hunt last fall that i would essentially be able to hunt the big bo at anytime during the summer of 2016 because i have a valid hunt permit. now as of last i had heard, i can't. what more is there? please inform.

mr. murphy said he does not make the rules, he just enforces them. i asked him if he would indeed ask those who made the first judgement to reconsider their current judgement with my permit so as to fulfill with their prior commitment to me. i had made decisions based off their commitment to me and i intended on hunting the big bo this summer. he said he didn't care what they said before, it is what it is now. to me, that's slimy. i don't say one thing, and do another intentionally. mr. murphy has with intent led me to believe i would be operating under a very specific arrangement and now he has backed out of his word and even with acknowledging he did in fact agree to those terms last fall, the rules have changed. all sportsman in az. and non-residents alike have reason to believe this is slimy. yes i know it might be hard to let me hunt the big bo. you have the 2016-2017 az. auction client and have sold him off a buck that resides and must remain protected on the big bo.. heaven forbid he waits his turn! good luck with this. there is no other side to the story....if so, please email me or message me your number and i would be glad to converse over the phone, readdress this issue with mr. murphy, or work out the misunderstanding in any other way. as of now, i have no recourse.

mike111 · Mar 24, 2016

On the Boquillas Ranch near Rosewell in 2011, someone who has Ranch access by vehicle purposely yelled and then drove their truck loudly to scare a Big bull coming into me. Good luck with that area, those guys are all in it for the money near Rosewell...

billythekid · Mar 25, 2016

just for the record. i am not making this stuff up.... here is what lee murphy said to me that guided my decisions to not hunt last fall and hunt this summer.. read last paragraph where he explains what will happen if i choose not to hunt fall 2015... now its a complete flop.

Shane,

Good Morning, I have CC'd Chad this email as well.

Attached is the Big Bo Ranch rules and also a copy of the outfitter guide permit.

Please read rule number 7 that pertains to auction tag holders in the ranch rules. You and your guides are allowed access only during the season dates which is a year-long.

On the guides permit in the second to last paragraph it also spells this out for the guides.

So as you can see in these examples this is the way the program is set up and written it is not something that I am making a decision on.

The decision I did make was to verbally (by email) allow you and or your guides to be in there before your season date on August 7th to start scouting since it is open to any ranch permit holder at that time anyways. However if either of the current year's auction or raffle antelope hunters have not filled their tags by August 7 and are hunting the Big Bo ranch then I will make a decision. That decision will be to follow the ranch access program to the letter to resend the early scouting privilege starting date of August 7th until August 15th to allow the current tag holder(s) no pressure access.

The reason the ranch access program was set up like this for auction tag holders is to give the current years tag holder(s) the whole season all the way up to the end without any competition or pressure problems. This way the tag holders for antelope that have the tag that ends on August 14 of the current year will have the option to hunt the ranch without anyone else pressuring them.

In your position if you do not harvest an antelope in the early part of your season this year (2015) you would have the same opportunity next summer to hunt and scout the ranch all summer leading up to August 14th with no 2016 auction tag holders in there scouting.

If you have any more questions or require more clarification please let me know.

My Big Bo Ranch phone # is 928-890-4785

Regards,

Lee Murphy
www.huntbigboranch.com

azhuntin · Mar 26, 2016

At a very minimum, this is a HUGE conflict of interest. In order to be fair to all AZ sportsman and guides, the manager should not be a competing guide/outfitter.

It also appears that "the manager" is able to "make decisions" as to who can be in and out of the ranch and at what times, so what has changed? Besides maybe the manager has a client?

Shane thank you for helping out AZ's wildlife with the purchasing of that tag. I hope they will do the right thing and honor what they have previously told you.

billythekid · Mar 26, 2016

if you hunt unit 10, you will get the point that this is about issues affecting all sportsmen. my tag, is just a prime example of what they are willing to do with the big bo and blocking the public access for ever.. it's a sad deal. if you have been there, it is a playground for thousands of hunters... they will say one thing, and do another. they will lie, as depicted in lee murphys email, they will cheat... this doesn't affect me as much as it affects those who have been stomping unit 10 for years. i can kill a goat anywhere in the state and there are many places to do it. sparky has this one right. i have brought this to light so peole can get prime examples of the length the big bo and those behind the scenes will go to take away future opportunity that has been enjoyed by thousands of hunters for years... good luck. i will help fight them where i can. i really have no dog in the fight of outfitter issues. i look at this as a sportsman vs. azgfd/big bo/navajo nation issue.

AZDirtNap · Mar 26, 2016

LAST EDITED ON Mar-26-16 AT 01:12PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-26-16 AT 01:12?PM (MST)

I had a muzz elk tag last year in unit 10. A guide setup a big camp on a water hole that had a small ranch house near by. You are not allow to camp next to a waterhole on the ranch per ranch rules. He also had vehicle access to Rosewell. I later found out that he knew the ranch manager and i am sure money was involved. The ranch has ranch rules but its not the same for everyone. Some nice bulls were by the waterhole before the season started but not after the guide setup camp and had monster campfires every night. (i was there six days before the opener). Nothing i could do. Bet if i camped next to a waterhole i would have got kicked off the ranch. At the end of the day they can do want they want when they want. By the way, they were flying a helicopter to ran up cattle during that hunt. Bet the pilot got a fat bonus. just saying.

DonMartin · Mar 26, 2016

Well guys, I FINALLY got to speak one on one with a person in the Arizona Game & Fish Department about what is going on with the Boquillas Ranch this year.

I am also getting the contract that AZGFD HAD with the Navajo Nation and the Cholla Land and Cattle company courtesy of a public records request I submitted to them!

I'm writing a second of a series of three stories in the Kingman Daily Miner about the situation on the Boquillas Ranch.

I'll assure you that you will be maybe just a little surprised to hear that as of this post, there is NO signed contract to allow hunters on the Boquillas this year, but from all indications, that contract will be signed and in place next week!

So you think the delay in releasing the draw results MIGHT be related to waiting until the contract is signed? Or is it just a coincidence?

Here is a little info you might be interested in. In 2015 the Cholla land and Cattle Company generated $125,000 in ranch access permits. They could use this money anyway they wanted--improvements, road grading--fencing-water line repair, you name it.

Plus I think you'll be interested in knowing what this year's contract will contain a legitimate "incentive" and who is responsible for it and who in the conservation community approved it.

And I assure you that we as Arizona sportsmen, who support the AZGFD with tag and licenses purchases, and also who purchase special tag raffle tickets have a right to know how and where those funds are spent.

I also got some insight on the guide fee situation for this year though most of you probably don't care about that. I may owe the Department an apology as I understand that they did advise the Navajo Nation that they felt the fees this year were too high.

Another thing, I think that having a guide in charge of the permit program is shall we say, "just a little conflict of interest?"

You got to be kidding....

As to the fees being charged to guides this year, Craig Steele, who is partners with the Boquillas Ranch permit manager, Lee Murphy, he has said publicly he doesn't have an issue with the $500 fee.

Ya think?

If I was getting $5-7,000 for guides fees I wouldn't either. Not saying he is, just saying there are some out there getting that kind of money.

But when we were trying to do 4 day antlerless elk hunts for $1500 for a 1X1 hunt or 2 X 1 for $2,200 kinda hard to make those numbers work when you have to pay AZGFD $300 for a guides license and then Boquillas Ranch another $500.

Anyway, lots more gonna come out in the next couple of weeks on this issue.

Interesting to see how others are responding to all of this to and of other issues that keep popping up.

I'd say STAY TUNED!

brian390 · Mar 26, 2016

I'm tired of all of these ranches being able to lock out large areas of checker boarded land to the public. Something needs to change so it won't be possible for them to do that. As far as all the people that helped out on the ranch clean ups, I would let them clean up their own crap for now on. That's just my thoughts and opinions about the Boquillas.

Live2hunt1 · Mar 27, 2016

LAST EDITED ON Mar-27-16 AT 07:33PM (MST)[p]I have always wanted Arizona residents to pull together and put a stop to the ridiculous amount of public land around the state that is land locked by private. How crazy is that? It makes me laugh when AZGF can't even access their own guzzlers and research areas by vehicle because some private land owner decided to land lock it. REALLY?? No easements. No prior planning. So somebody who owns some land that blocks public roads can now have free access to hundreds and even thousands of acres of public land. God Bless America. This wouldn't even be an issue if there was enough public land supporters willing to put up the fight. But there's not and if it doesn't directly effect them then so many just don't give a #####. Working cattle ranches like this one should really tread likely because things like this can spiral out of control quickly and things never workout for anyone involved. Just ask Bundy.

muleybull · Mar 28, 2016

Touchy subject, but the fact of the matter is, a private landowner has a right to make decisions that affect his private land. Whether we like it or not.

I don't, and never have hunted the Boquilles, but they are not he only ranch in unit 10 that are affecting hunters that want to hunt. The difference between this ranch and some of the other ranches in 10 is, the Boquilles still lets hunters access their land. There are other large ranches in 10 that will not let you in. Period. End of Story. Some charge very large trespass fees, that many of us cannot afford. But, its their property, their rules.

Some are upset that it locks off the checkerboarded State land within ranch boundaries. State land is not public land. By law you cannot access State land without obtaining a permit. A State issued hunting permit is considered a permit to access State land, but if your buddy is along just to help, then he's trespassing. If your doing some pre-season scouting on State land, your trespassing. Sorry rule, but its AZ State law.

This is going on in many other units across the state.
The reason I don't like whats going on on the Boquilles is it will start crowding us up in other areas in unit 10 when people either refuse to pay a large trespass fee, or when it finally becomes so large most cant afford to.

We tell people they may want to look at units other than unit 10. Before this year, this unit is not what it once was, anyone that has grown up in and around 10 will agree, and even off the ranch its becoming more and more crowded. Now things may get worse.

I don't like it myself, but if an outsider tried to tell you what you were gonna do on your own property you'd be mad as hell. It is the way of the world.

www.muleybulloutfitters.com

sagebrush · Mar 28, 2016

LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-16 AT 01:13AM (MST)[p]Access could be worked out fairly easily with a land swap of state trust sections for private sections. Since AZ is a "fence out" state, the burden would be on the state to fence the land. In effect, un-checkerboard it. If the Navajos balk, the state could legally fence out the landlocked sections so they couldn't run cattle on it. They could even work out an agreement to let the Navajos graze off the state trust lands so there would be no impact on their cattle operations.

And yes, I'm mad as hell the Navajos are telling me what I can and can't do on my state trust land.

"You can fly a helicopter to the top of Everest and say you've been there. The problem with that is you were an a$$hole when you started and you're still an a$$hole when you get back.
Its the climb that makes you a different person". - Yvon Chouinard

DonMartin · Mar 28, 2016

Just one correction about the post from Muleybull.

In Arizona, if you have a hunting license, that's you key to accessing State Trust lands. You don't need a tag, juts a hunting license.

And yes, it the checker boarded lands including the 225,000 of State Trust lands that is the issue.

If the entire Boquillas Ranch was private, yep, they could charge what they wanted for access or "trespass" fees and you either pay em or don't hunt there.

But Arizona owns the critters, no ranch does. So it behooves both the ranches and G&F to work together to solve issues.

Speaking of the Boquillas, all you folks wondering why the delay in the AZGFD releasing draw info?

How about they are waiting to get that signed 2016 access agreement from the Navajo Nation BEFORE they release the results of the draw.

Word is that agreement will be signed this week.

Look on Big Bo website under NEW ACCESS AGREEMENT. It says, "There has been a new access agreement reached between The (SIC) Ranch (sic) owner, Ranch (sic) lessee and the Arizona Game & Fish Department."

Here is a WHAT IF scenario.. IF they DIDN'T have an agreement and the Boquillas was closed, then the department would have to drop 1,000-1,100 elk tags and a bunch of antelope tags.

The Department would lose over $200,000 and have a lot of really upset sportsmen. Cholla land and Cattle would loose at least $125,000 in access fees (That's what they got in 2015).

So they wait, get the signed agreement in hand, and issue the tags.

Makes good sense actually.

Be patient grasshopper, will happen SOON!

muleybull · Mar 29, 2016

Your right Don, as long as your hunting.

If you have a hunting license in your pocket and your just out scouting, not hunting, then your engaged in a illegal activity on State lands and trespassing.

www.muleybulloutfitters.com

Gwagen · Mar 29, 2016

I may be wrong, but I consider scouting with a license part of hunting. In any case, I put a small .22 pistol in my pocket and hunt rabbits

>Your right Don, as long as
>your hunting.
>
>If you have a hunting license
>in your pocket and your
>just out scouting, not hunting,
>then your engaged in a
>illegal activity on State lands
>and trespassing.
>
>www.muleybulloutfitters.com

DonMartin · Mar 29, 2016

Nope you are absolutely right, rabbit season is open ALL YEAR LONG in Arizona.

So I can go out anytime I want on State Trust lands.

Thanks, Bruce!

muleybull · Mar 29, 2016

Persons actively hunting with a valid hunting license (available from Arizona Game & Fish External Link) may ride on established roads and trails on Arizona State Trust Land without an Arizona State Trust Recreational Permit. Scouting and other recreational activities require the permit. All other hunting questions should be directed toArizona Game & Fish. External Link

and the horses mouth...

https://land.az.gov/faq/recreational-permit-faq

So your buddy that goes along to help needs a AZ State land permit to be there legally. What about your wife or kids? What species are legal to hunt during a archery elk hunt for someone without a elk permit in their pocket. And what weapons would that same guy be legal to carry?

Another angle, Don your a law abiding citizen, how many days a year do you camp on AZ State land on average?

The legal answer is no more than 14 per calendar year, that's all they allow you.

Just a heads up on how sucky our right to access really is. And a heads up to those that think the state should take over all public land...

www.muleybulloutfitters.com

brian390 · Mar 29, 2016

LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-16 AT 01:36PM (MST)[p]..

muleman74 · Mar 29, 2016

Plan and simple is if you have a hunting license in your possession and a side arm you will never get a ticket nor be questioned. I have had this same conversation with officers on it and none of them have had any issue as long as you have the license on you.

muleybull · Mar 30, 2016

Don, I have a question for you and if I come off sounding like I'm defending the Boquilles or AZG&F, I'm not.

I read your recent article in the newspaper, you stated that if the Boquilles shuts down, G&F would have to reduce tag numbers resulting in a loss of revenue of give or take $200,000. I'm wondering if you know how much money the G&F spends on average, annually dealing with the Boquilles. Could it result in a savings for G&F in the long run if they stopped their efforts with the ranch?

www.muleybulloutfitters.com

Gator · Mar 30, 2016

First push for landowner tags is starting IMO.
The elk on here will become a tag worth over 15,000 or more just like other Rez that have Monster Bulls.
Enjoy it while it last.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]