deer w/ 17 points

chipc

Very Active Member
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1,061
I realize I'm kind of in no mans land. I might have a shot at one of the 12's but the new 20% deal hurt me. Based upon the 2016 bonus pass report it looks like it took 19 to guarantee a tag in any of those. Odds dropped fast after that. With point creep it could be 10 years before I get that tag. Anyone familiar with the late 27 hunt or have any other input on the good use of my points ? I'd go guided ( I'm from Wisconsin with no time to scout). I'm 60 and in good shape but I want to hunt. A chance at a 180 inch buck would be great. THANKS for any advice you're willing to share !
 
I know what you mean I have 18 NR points. I'm going to
Hold for a 12W late tag hopefully in the next couple years.
 
chipc Can you tell me what the new 20% deal is? Also what is the bonus pass report? I drew 12a east muzzleloader in 2008 with 12 nr points. How many points do you think it would take to draw that tag now for a nr? Thanks Don
 
Arizona now (as of 2016) only gives 20% of the tags for any given hunt to those with the max points in the applicant pool for that hunt. They did that to give those who aren't in the max pool a chance to draw the most difficult tags (like the 13's and 12's late hunt for deer). That significantly reduces the chances of drawing the most difficult tags for those with high preference points. Perhaps the best advice is to look on the AZGFD site under "hunting". It explains the 20% rule and the bonus pass better than I can explain it. They also have a list, by hunt number, of the points it took to draw last year. GOOD LUCK. Chip
 
Not to argue but we have had the 20% tags to top bonus point holders forever. Only 10% of all tags can go to a NR. What changed this year is that instead of all 10% of NR tags going to guys with the top bonus points they made it where only 5% can go to top bonus point holders and the other 5% can go to any random NR. This helped get more tags to guys with lower bonus points because before to draw a tag as a NR you had to have top bonus points.
 
Yep, BC is correct, my bad. I was thinking of my drawing odds more than the details (after awhile all of these states draw percentages, preference points, etc, etc... kind of run together !). I can tell ya one thing Don. Most of us with 17, 18, 19 points are not too happy. However, those with few points are likely just fine with it.
 
NR with a boat full of points, It is still a hope and prayer to draw, I'm thinking of retiring in AZ

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
Will give you a "for instance" situation.

Last year in Unit 13B there were 75 deer tags authorized for the general hunt.

A max of 10% of the tags (7-they round DOWN)COULD go to NR's.

NR's did get 7 permits, but because of the 5%-5% rule I think there were 4 issued under the 20% pass rule where only max bonus point applicants are in, and then 3 more NR's who had less than max points also drew.

The analogy is that those with max points (139) took a hit, but it allowed others with less than max points a CHANCE at a Strip tag.

Hope that makes sense..

Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters
 
I sure don't know what they were. Didn't run into any of them up there.

I'd recommend that if a NR wants to draw this year, and has 17 points, then put in for the Strip (Unit 13B) first choice, and the late 12A West (Kaibab) tag for second.

Lots of bucks on the Kaibab, and if you'll just wait it out, you'll get a good one.

Here are a couple from our camp in 2016.

4384320161127162336.jpg



91830angelbell2016kaibabbuck.jpg


Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters
 
My guess is ariz didnt split the nr tags for the nr, who would apply for north of the river if there was not any tags, now that there is a chance the revenue must have spiked,surprised it took ariz so long to figure that out.If they where thinking of the nr they would not have made the guy with alot of points now maybe take half a life time or more to draw.It may be best to spend half your life in the ariz desert were it seems the best bucks in ariz come from anyhow, but it may take half your life to see one.Well I am half of max points and will apply 13b 1st,and if it was not for a severe waterfowl affliction I would hunt south ariz in the rut every year until they put the wall up to keep those bucks in mexico.
 
Arizona did split the non-resident tags on the units north of the Colorado River.

5% went to those NR with max bonus points and 5% went to those who have less than max bonus points.

It worked exactly how they wanted it to.

You're right on the reason why they changed.

Money!

You screwed over a few NR's (max point holders) but kept many more that non-residents who were dropping out in the "game!"

Good business acumen!
 
The new system seems to be working as intended. I know a guy, resident of Oregon, who drew a unit 9 archery bull tag 2 years ago, with 19 points. That same guy drew unit 9 archery bull again last year with just 2 points, his lifetime and loyalty points. Now , the odds of any non-res drawing in back to back years are astronomical, but it demonstrates that guys with very few points do in fact get drawn for the most coveted tags now.
 
Last year I had THREE non-resident clients who drew tags that under the "old" system would not have drawn.

I had an archery antelope hunter in Unit 10; a rifle antelope hunter in Unit 10 and a rifle antelope hunter in Unit 9 that all had and filled their tags.

So yes, the system that AZGFD is now using is working exactly as it was designed.

Yes, it totally screwed over the NR's who had been in the system since Day 1.

And yes, in my opinion it was done for money as many non-residents were dropping out of the "game" when they found out they couldn't draw.

Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters
 
Don I should be good after I retire and move to AZ by then I should have about 23 points,

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
I wouldn't put in for a draw for years without very high odds of eventually drawing. It seems like the new nr rules take that away. I'm more interested in certainty than possible luck draws.
 
Tell me which state has high or guaranteed odds rather than luck of the draw for some of their best hunts? Doesn't exist. Yes some hunts have preference points that give more tags to guys with a lot of points but if it's any decent tag you're gonna be competing with hundreds if not thousands of people that have the same preference points as yourself. I personally think now with the new rule more guys are applying because there is that chance to draw. Before there was no chance they could ever catch up to be able to draw.
 
Bone Collector, you are totally correct!
It's working just as G&F had hoped.
More people staying in for the draw as now they have a CHANCE!
That translates into more $$ for the department.
 
>Tell me which state has high
>or guaranteed odds rather than
>luck of the draw for
>some of their best hunts?
>Doesn't exist. Yes some hunts
>have preference points that give
>more tags to guys with
>a lot of points but
>if it's any decent tag
>you're gonna be competing with
>hundreds if not thousands of
>people that have the same
>preference points as yourself. I
>personally think now with the
>new rule more guys are
>applying because there is that
>chance to draw. Before there
>was no chance they could
>ever catch up to be
>able to draw.

Not to be argumentative but in Colo the points system they utilize gives you 80% certainty as to when you will draw....in some cases 100% certainty . Not a fan of Colo system and am moving towards get out of that money grab.
 

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