Your feeling on the proposed changes to the trail camera rules in Arizona?

DonMartin

DonMartin

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Fellow Sportsmen:

As you may be aware, on Friday, May 4 here in Kingman, the AZ G&F Commission will meet to finalize the proposed changes in Article 3 that will affect the take of game in Arizona.

One of the changes is the use of trail cameras. The proposal is that live streaming cameras cannot be used at all, and that trail cameras that do not send live images can be no closer to 1/4 mile (440 yards) from a water source such as G&F wildlife waters, or stock tanks.

I know there are a lot of various feelings on this specific proposal. Department and Commission feels they violate Fair Chase.

I'm wondering how many of you have sent in your comments to the Department and Commission and if you did, were your comments in support or against this proposal?

Plus, if you sent in comments, for or against, do you own tail cameras?

Another question is about the use of rifle scopes such as the Burris Eliminator which uses a laser to tell you the distance of the target, then actually moves the sight internally to that distance.

Deportment and Commission says that DOESN'T violate Fair Chase, but a trail camera on a water does!

Thank you!

Don Martin
 
45360429181450resized.jpg

Got a feeling after Friday there are gonna be a lot of these on sale at a very cheap price!

Don Martin
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-29-18 AT 07:49PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-29-18 AT 07:46?PM (MST)

I have couple trail camera's but don't really run them much. I have no problem with others running them but it gets a little crazy when you see up to 8 camera's on one drinker. What really bugs me is hunters who set up camera then think they own that tank. I was sitting tree stand on tank with camera and they would just drive their quad off road to tank to check pics. Didn't care if I was in stand or not. This is something I can do without.
 
10-4 on that
They shouldn't be allow to come and screw up your hunt to check their pictures.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
Might have to hunt and scout the old fashioned, hard way. No problem with them out on the trails but 10-15 at each water source is crazy. I know it is easier and more productive for some of the outfitters but would even the playing field for some of us.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-18 AT 08:20PM (MST)[p]I'm in the market for some so I guess if I hold out I will be able to get some for a good price I guess.
 
I'm sure if I were a guide o the strip I would have a to. Of them out and having max points if I draw I am pretty much forced to go with a guide that has them out or I am severely limiting my odds, but I don't use them anywhere I currently hunt. I am not against them but at the same time in heavy use areas like the strip I think it takes the magic and surprise out of it a little when almost every big buck is known about already. I have always preferred scouting and actually spotting the bucks but where I hunt that is much more productive than trail cams anyway.
 
>I'm sure if I were a
>guide o the strip I
>would have a to. Of
>them out and having max
>points if I draw I
>am pretty much forced to
>go with a guide that
>has them out or I
>am severely limiting my odds,
>but I don't use them
>anywhere I currently hunt. I
>am not against them but
>at the same time in
>heavy use areas like the
>strip I think it takes
>the magic and surprise out
>of it a little when
>almost every big buck is
>known about already. I have
>always preferred scouting and actually
>spotting the bucks but where
>I hunt that is much
>more productive than trail cams
>anyway.

+1 when every buck has a name, it doesn't lend itself to a very satisfying experience.

Pet Door Sales and Installation
www.utpetdoor.com
 
To me this is a prime example of trying to fix an isolated problem with a blanket policy. The guides have brought this upon themselves. Some of the guides own hundreds, and I mean HUNDREDS, of cameras. And like some have said, there are very few BIG bucks that someone does not know about. And you cannot find many, if any, water holes without one of their cameras ( sometime along with many others) To say all of their clients are "hunters" would be much more than just a stretch. Many of their clients are simply spending huge amounts of money and basically buying a buck!. C'mon Folks, all ya have to do is read the stories and it's very common to see a huge group of people behind the same buck. The "bounties" on some of these bucks can be quite high as well. I've also hear the comments about the fact that this does not have anything to do with fair chase....total BS!!!!! If you have hundreds of cameras out, you are absolutely finding and patterning deer. It allows you to focus your attention on a much smaller area. If nothing else, you know he's in the area somewhere, you know how big he is, and you can focus on that one particular animal. The comment..."my camera has never shot a deer" seems like more of a diversion from the true issue here.
Anyways,this is going to hurt those of us that have just a few cameras out and can't afford to pay Folks to go out every weekend to swap out SD cards.
I would have liked to see a limit on cameras per guide/hunter....but I believe this os already a done deal.
IMO, there is a line in which many of us have to decide what part of "fair chase" pertains to our own actions. I have a few cameras so, I suppose, I myself might be pushing the line a bit. Same goes with those of you with muzzle loaders with scopes...Compound bows capable of shooting more 60-70-80 + yards...I could go on. Again, I do believe that hundreds of cameras are over the line and this has been brought upon us by a small group that does this more as a business venture than the true experience of the hunt.
 
Thank you to all that think their values are the only ones that are correct and insist on imposing them on me. This is just the beginning and there will come a day when others impose their values on you. Range finders, high power optics, long range rifles, ATV's, any and all could be classified as "violating fair chase" in some small minds. Some define "fair chase" as a predator killing an animal and a human shouldn't be allowed to hunt anything.

"You can fly a helicopter to the top of Everest and say you've been there. The problem with that is you were an a$$hole when you started and you're still an a$$hole when you get back.
Its the climb that makes you a different person". - Yvon Chouinard
 
>Thank you to all that think
>their values are the only
>ones that are correct and
>insist on imposing them on
>me. This is just the
>beginning and there will come
>a day when others impose
>their values on you. Range
>finders, high power optics, long
>range rifles, ATV's, any and
>all could be classified as
>"violating fair chase" in some
>small minds. Some define "fair
>chase" as a predator killing
>an animal and a human
>shouldn't be allowed to hunt
>anything.
>
>"You can fly a helicopter to
>the top of Everest and
>say you've been there. The
>problem with that is you
>were an a$$hole when you
>started and you're still an
>a$$hole when you get back.
>
>Its the climb that makes you
>a different person". - Yvon
>Chouinard

If we just go off what each of us wants then I think we should all get early bull tags every year and noone should be able to impose their will on me and tell me I can't. I love the fact they are banning cameras. Gonna show us which of these outfitters can really hunt rather than pay thousands for cameras to simply track the animals non stop. I use cameras and will continue to but on my own salt licks. Gonna make hunting great again!
 
Own them. Live in Arizona and am against them. We need to put more sport into hunting and less technology. These animals cannot evolve fast enough to keep up with our advances.

I am against the scope thing too.
 
It's interesting that for the last 10 years I kept saying that the Strip is finished as far as producing HODAD bucks year after year. But, even with the ginormous quality bucks harvested yearly the Strip still gets it done. That being said, I like their proposal.
 
Don, with all due respect, you and your outfitter/guide buddies brought this upon us all by your actions. Specifically up on The Strip. 10-15 cams on ever water source up there. You guys pushed the envelope and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

This ban is a direct response to the actions up there. Period.

Don't act like this is something that suddenly appeared on the Game and Fish radar. It's been festering for years.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-06-18 AT 08:57AM (MST)[p]THANK you. Why?
Just curious, what is the bottom line issue? Too many trees dying? Too many big bucks dying? Too much traffic? People destroying others property? Must have been some complaints that started it all.
 
Why doesn't the AZ game and fish just make a permit process to register them on public land. Charge the price of a deer tag for each camera and use the proceeds for habitat or guzzler projects. Game and Fish could create a waterproof sticker to place on them. I am sure that a lodt of the guides and outfitters backed by big dollars would have no-problem finding the funding from high priced clients for their hundreds of cameras.
 
It's funny to hear ALL the guides and outfitters against this proposal.

How will those poor guides kill all them deer up on the Strip? Lol
 
I would be in favor of banning trail cameras on public land. It's like permanent blinds, permanent camps, etc that are all against the rules.
 
I agree individuals don't need/want more regulations. But I do believe there is a case to be made to regulate businesses. Clearly the goal that I believe many would like is to keep hunting a sport. Regulations can help keep it that way by not allowing it to be driven by business profits.

Seems that G&F could have looked at simpler rules that prevent outfitters and non tag holders from putting out cameras (part of the outfitter license). Yes they could potentially circumvent the license rule if tag holders are still allowed a camera but that could be managed by having the water hole rules kick in during hunts e.g. Aug1-Dec31? This would give outfitters plenty of time to study an area, the prey and its habits but no unfair advantage in those last few weeks when the animals scatter due to pressure. It would give the animals a reprieve during the windows of time when no one has a tag. It still doesn't solve the baiting/attracting that goes on habituating animals to specific locations or the cameras that would be put up over these sites.

I for one find get my thrills from the hunting and shooting skill required to find and successfully tag my game but I can also appreciate how others could use the additional help to at least get up to par regardless of whether the help is a self ranging scope (know lots of folks that still couldn't hit a target anyway), a UTV, an prof outfitter, or a game cam. For those who abuse the extras to unfair advantage, well that's just a question of morality and ethics. Pretty easy to preach and role model those but almost impossible to regulate them.

Even simpler, ban cameras in specific problem locations/regions ala parts of the strip. Give it a few years and see how it goes; by then lawsuits to block this heavy handed regulation may have played out too. This would at least be similar to prior exclusions to compensate for equipment advantages e.g. archery, Muzzy, handgun seasons help balance the playing field.

I suspect, many hunters cannot keep up with all the cost or use of tech in hunting and are really, really annoyed by competing on an unlevel playing field with those who have the toys. Is that really unfair to the animals or just to each other?

Despite suggestions above, AZ is to me still the wild west and I would hate to see G&F act on this regulation; just leave us be.
 
AZ8:

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back on this.

As I stated to the Commission, I have 10 cameras total. Never had ALL of them out at one time. And again, as I told the Commission, I have never shot a critter that I got on a trail camera.

I know what you mean about the Strip, but I rarely run them there due to the distance factor. Also, have you really read the proposal?

Only SPORTSMEN will be restricted from placing cameras at waters that SPORTSMEN DOLLARS paid for!

Tweetie bird watchers and others can still put a camera on the waters. Have they paid for the water development? Heck NO!

Is that fair?

Most of the responses received by AZGFD from the public were in OPPOSITION of the proposed rule.

There are so many issues that are wrong with this proposal. Since there is no requirement to put your name on a camera, how will AZGFD know whose it is? Tweetie bird watcher or a hunter/

Do they have manpower to send officers out to check a 1/4 mile radius around waters to make sure the rule is being complied with?

Can you even see a water when your 440 yards away in a juniper jungle?

No sorry, this proposed rule is a knee jerk proposal by the AZGFD to placate the anti hunters. AZGFD does NOT want a ballot box challenge to hunting, so they'll give our privileges away ever so slowly. I called it creeping incrementalism and as we know, you give those jokers an inch, and they'll take a mile.

I predict we're going to lose all of this a piece at a time as sportsmen are our own worst enemies.

We are ready to condemn those who don't pursue exactly like we do or with the same method of take.

Antis are loving this...

Don Martin
 
Why on Earth would anyone be in favor of banning something that other people like to do just because you don't like it??

Freakin' amazing! I propose banning taking a poop in the woods( unless of course, you're willing to pack it out). You guys are playing right into the anti-hunter's hands.

DIRTCLOD hates guides and outfitters. We get it. Let's just ban them all!! Freakin' guys are cutting into YOUR enjoyment! We can't have that, now can we??? You guys are freakin' pathetic.

Hunting is doomed. Too many factions constantly bickering about meaningless crap. SELFISH. It's all about me, me, me.

COMPROMISE. Ever hear of it? It's what sensible folks do when they have a disagreement.

Glad I don't live in Az...
 
Here is the deal as far as I am concerned: In the dry climate of the Strip with hundreds and hundreds of cameras out there, most likely covering every water source in most years it just doesn't seem right and absolutely fair chase. Most every big buck is going to be found far before the hunt begins.

Almost no one has a problem with a guy running a few cameras, but come on. I'm sorry, I don't normally like to criticize fellow hunters, but there are a few things I am going to stand against. This trail camera abuse is one, teams of guides canvasing a unit for a high dollar hunt, flying a unit right before or during a hunt are things I'll vote against if I can.


Just my humble opinion.
 
Kinda reminds me of them banning airplane scouting in Wyoming after July. Guides and outfitters abuse easy ways to scout for animals enough that average joe hunter gets fed up and asks for a change.
 
The top guides on the Strip were enjoying high success rates on big bucks long before trail cameras came along, and will continue to do so if they're gone. Those I've spoken to don't particularly mind if they are removed. Those that truly know the Strip will be successful, and it will potentially weed-out those that just do it as a side-line.

I enjoy the activity of using trail cameras, and pulling the cards is like Christmas. I only own a few, but I have areas where I've put them out each year, get lots of pictures of quality animals, but never hunt those areas. In fact, I think I've only ever taken one animal where a trail camera helped me narrow down where I decided to hunt. I just simply enjoy getting the photos. This law would take that away from thousands of people that enjoy it as well. If they do feel the need to limit their use, I would prefer they allow it in the off-season, but they could possibly require them to be removed one or two weeks prior to the first big game hunt of the year (much like the airplane scouting law in AZ). That would allow thousands of Arizonans the enjoyment of the "sport" of trail cameras but get rid of them in time to not interfere with others hunting (by people coming to check their cameras while you are at a water hole hunting). In these days of kids staying indoors and playing video games 24/7, anything that allows people to get outside and enjoy the outdoors should be encouraged. Allowing cameras out of hunting seasons would do this.
 
I agree that most of the top guides on the strip will continue to harvest great bucks with, or without trail cams on the rifle hunt. Mainly a glassing/spot stalk type hunt. I think the archery hunt on the strip is going to become quite a bit tougher for the Guides/DIY to harvest the top end bucks. I think it's going to let a lot more of the biggest bucks survive into the rifle hunt. Depending how the exact rules come out in the next couple weeks might change my mind, but overall I think it's going to get tougher for most.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-28-18 AT 08:13AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON May-28-18 AT 08:10?AM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON May-28-18 AT 08:07?AM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON May-27-18 AT 09:15?AM (MST)

I have a couple of cameras and somewhat enjoy using them. It is pretty exciting looking at what pictures you got. With that said, I'm not a big fan of walking up to a tank with like ten cameras on it. I bet that I'm not the only hunter that feels this way. Since cameras have been used, I've kind of missed the old school way of finding the animals. Before trail cameras the only way to know what was coming to a particular tank was to check for sign in the dirt around it or sit it. The sign at the tank never told you exactly how big or small the animal was, which put more of a mystery to what was really living out in the woods. With all of the cameras on tanks now and in the woods it seems like almost every animal is known about and named.

I believe that the game and fish said that their main issues with cameras were complaints such as theft, fair chase, and people checking cameras while someone is sitting a tank. Say that their solution to the problem is to only allow cameras in the summer months when there are no big game hunting seasons. Wouldn't they still have complaints with people stealing them? Would it still be considered fair chase with with the hundreds of outfitter cameras across the unit during the summer months until the animals are full grown? Although a positive to the half year ban is that it would stop problems with people checking cameras while someone is sitting a tank during hunting season.

All hunters have different opinions on fair chase and I'm on the fence with trail cameras. Some guides own like a hundred or so cameras just for their outfit, and when there's mass amounts like that I think that it can be overwhelming. With that said it can kind of go in the direction of not fair chase.

I agree with what some have said on here, and that it's not good for hunters to fight each other too much. We just need to look at the obvious problems that the cameras cause, and use common sense in coming up with a solution.
 
May I remind you again who paid for all those "developed waters" out there?

It was sportsmen, and sorry guys, but I'm sure guides also paid. Remember Sportsmen are the true wildlife conservationists in America.

What about the Tweety bird people; you know the Leica and Swaro owning bird watchers, photographers, hikers, and of course the Birkenstock wearing, granola munching wildlife watchers?

Did they pay for any those water projects. No!

Will they be affected by the restriction/ban? No!

Like one guy said, we are killing each other and the antis are loving it.

We need to live and let live..

Oh and Boone & Crockett says that passive cameras on waters DOES NOT VIOLATE FAIR CHASE in their opinion.

And when the AZGFD gets through with this "Solution looking for a problem," you guys with the fancy fish finders better watch out.

Read the proposed rule. This self anointed "Fair Chase" definition by the AZGFD/Commission also includes anglers.

Some anti will complain about those and we'll be in another debate in a few years...lol

I'll be watching the webinar Tuesday to see what happens! Is there going to be a rule?? In my opinion sure there will. The Department is not going to waste the opportunity to do some more micro-managing of hunters in Arizona; whether the majority of sportsmen in this state like it or not!

Don Martin
 
Don- the fishfinder comparison is a joke. You realize what percentage of people fish vs hunt? I was going to watch the webinar but decided I really don't care about the camera issue. People assume hunters complained to start this with G&F. More likely all the hikers I am seeing in the units now. Bottom line is you guys just pushed this too far with too many cameras and this is the result. I hope this one doesn't pass but likely it will.
 
This is from a trick tank in unit 9 from my hunt there back in 2009. I can only imagine that there are 10 times as many these days.

3669az_2009_trail_cameras.jpg
 
I don't care if You built 10 holes Yourself by hand. Cams are not a true way of Hunting. Your DADDY didn't use em either did His Dad . Everyone here Man up and learn to hunt.I will be 62 in Sept. and never used a Cam. I am in Phoenix and am on the Coues site here and they hate Me when I talk against Cams. We got 15's Long range rifles and range finders. OH an Walkie Talkies. Thats enough. + Quads wern't around in the old days....Grow a pair and Hunt.......BULL!!!
 
I have been following this topic for a while now and I have opinions both pro & con. I just have one question for the AZGF. How are you going to enforce such a ban? More cameras? (OK, that was 2 questions!)
I really don't know who has been complaining to the G&F, or what their agenda really is but I do know this.
The technology "Genie" is out of the bottle.
If you (we) ban trail cameras over water, then you better go ahead & ban the high tech optics, the radios, the rangefinders, GPS devices, extreme long range rifles, compound bows, in-line muzzleloaders, scopes on muzzleloaders, quads, side by sides, 4 X 4 vehicles, etc., etc., etc.,,,.
We had none of these advantages "back in the day". I remember reading an article by Jack O'Connor back in the early 70's challenging the need for, and ethics of, variable power scopes. From what I have read, even the old 30-30 Winchester was considered "revolutionary" when it was first introduced back in the 1890's.
My point is this, the technology is already here. There will always be someone coming up with something that some of us don't like. I wish we could go back to the "good old days", but we can't.
There have been some very good suggestions for compromise that I hope they consider. A rule that cannot be enforced, is worse than no rule at all.
 
Technology from all above is the reason deer tags aren't OTC anymore. The good thing about banning technology is less animals will die and we could theoretically get more tags. Modern muzzle loaders with scopes are far more effective than the old 30-30 open site rifles. How many more advantages do we need over these poor critters. ATV?s side by sides and electric bikes? This is getting ridiculous. If they don't ban certain technologies like trail cameras and long range capabilities and drones, killing just gets continually easier and the less tags there are for everyone. I am against the explosion of recent technologies for the exploitation of our game. However, I am not going to limit myself to an old flint lock and moccasins because I am too holy for the light weight gear and Swarovski spotting scopes. We have to large advantage over our animals that some of the technologies like Walky talkies just make it unfair for these critters. I think it is time for agencies to regulate what is fair or unfair advantage in the persuit of wild game.
 
Bull...good to hear someone knows how to hunt ethically and believes in fair chase.Still have the old 308. my dad brought home from his days in the military.Reload our own military grade brass and bullets.Too bad AZGFD decided to pass on the gamecam proposal until June.Only 55yrs young myself but back in the day we had no cameras or Walkie Talkies.Heck..Tree stand what is that?We sat on a cactus in the sun all day long and liked it.Javelina chewing up our K-Mart special backpacks.
O'the Good Old Days.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-30-18 AT 09:24PM (MST)[p]Bottom line, these cameras are "private surveillance systems on public land".

How would one like if some person put up a private surveillance system in their neighborhood? To get pictures of their kids ya know...

Is some guy supposed just let his family get their picture taken by these private surveillance systems with his kids while walking around a stock tank scouting for a nice buck track for an upcoming hunt on public land?

These people, guides, and outfitters (i.e. 'hunters') subject the citizens to their private surveillance systems on public land. Where is the mutual respect and consideration in that? Who are these people? Well they are 'citizens' who are entitled to subject other citizens to their beliefs and whatever reason they can justify their "being". Sounds pretty typical American as in the last 70 years. How's the "integrity"?

These private surveillance systems have been an ongoing issue for nearly 15 years and with the tech today, it will always be present. These threads pop up every few years. Arizona has a population of 7 million and will reach 10 million if the past 30 year trend continues. This is a "social issue". Note there are far more public land users other than just hunters.

Whatever happened to "leave no trace" and "pack it in, pack it out"? This simple principle has an established history in the western US and any "rational" human should understand and respect. This has been overcome by entitlement and sheer numbers of public land users. The woods get littered enough, especially by hunters.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/cgi-b...z=show_thread&om=2583&forum=DCForumID33&omm=0

Along this same line, people should think twice about posting their kids pictures and activity all over the internet. Has it ever occurred that maybe their kids may not want their lives on the internet? They may be okay with it now, however the circumstances may change in the future. Let them make that decision, e.g. when they are eighteen or something.

Welcome to America, the land of entitlement. There are much more important issues and problems than trail cameras. How's it going?
 
"The lands get littered enough, especially by hunters." WTF? Thats a unsubstantiated comment. You'd fit right in over in the political forum. Hack?
 
"Is some guy supposed just let his family get their picture taken by these private surveillance systems with his kids while walking around a stock tank scouting for a nice buck track for an upcoming hunt on public land?"

Yep or you can stay home.
 
So....pack it in; pack it out. Right? I assume that also includes your used toilet paper. After all, that's litter too...right???

Let's hear your rationalization for that one, guys. Pick it up and put it in a baggie and take it home with you and flush it down. That's what the granola munchers do. News flash: IT'S LITTER! So all you guys worried about the litter aspect better start bringing baggies with you. Just like the tree huggers!

Largebull and Dirtclod think everyone should only hunt their way. After all; it's the ONLY way to hunt correctly...right? They deemed it so. Everyone else has been doing it wrong all this time. If they would have only told us sooner! We could have been doing it the right way all this time!

StickFlicker and Brian 390 both talk sense. I totally get that there could be too many cams on every waterhole. I agree that that would indeed suck to be sitting in a blind or treestand and have someone come in to check cams. But here's another news flash for you: The critters have to drink. They'll be back, and usually within a few minutes. Most hunters know this. Public land hunting has it's drawbacks...Limit cams; don't ban them.

I get it, guys. I really do. It just irks me to no end when fellow hunters try to restrict other hunters doing their thing. Someone above mentioned how much Arizona's population is going to increase over the next several years. Man, it's a good thing all those folks are hunters, or we'd be doomed. Oh, wait a minute. THEY'RE NOT! In fact, probably 95% of them are non-hunters. At least as many anti-hunters as hunters will be in that number( probably more). It's really nice of all you guys to help them along with their agenda. The way I see it, that's exactly what you're doing. Limit cams: don't ban them.

While we're at it, I suggest no blinds or treestands at the water holes, either. They bother me whenever I stop by. And there's getting to be way too many!

I would be right there to restrict trailcam usage with all you guys as long as we also ban all the other stuff that makes your hunting easier. But we all know that's never gonna happen.

I'm 66 years old. I've seen plenty of things happen to hunting while hunters sit idly by and do nothing until it affects THEM PERSONALLY. Screw everyone else. California legislators just introduced a bill that would ban anyone from having a trophy of the Big 5( African game) hanging in their house. I can almost guarantee that bill will pass. That bill passed committee OVERWHELMINGLY! They recently fired the head of the G&F( Cali) because he had the audacity to actually have a mountain lion mount in the PRIVACY OF HIS OWN HOME! We all know( or should) that lion hunting got BANNED IN CALIFORNIA BY PUBLIC VOTE. The way things are going in Az, you can look for that in future years too. The general public voting on how or what you can hunt. Or even if you CAN. How's that for repression?! It doesn't just happen in foreign countries anymore. We got it right here and WE EVEN HELP THEM GET THIS CRAP PASSED!

Oh, and Gleninaz: We'll be seeing you soon. But just for a visit to the Strip or Kaibab. I got 19 pts for deer. Any suggestions on where to go?? ;). And no...I'm not ready to go there( yet)!
 
Unsubstantiated?

Go ahead and judge. Consider "discernment".

Is the probability high that a hunt unit is more littered with trash after a hunt season than before it started?

Of the numerous ranches that have locked gates and stopped public access over the last 15-30 years, does the accumulation of trash from hunters make the list of reasons why?

How about reading signs before entering ranches that still allow public access?

Include personal experience from public land users, specifically after hunt seasons.

Still unsubstantiated?

Being self-critical is a human exercise that is near non-existent this day and age. Times are just too comfortable.

Hack? One could whittle near everyone this day and age to just that. Even apply it to generations. Familiar? However, there is little benefit in doing so at this point and specifically this instance. Just letting 'one be oneself' and 'one do oneself' is sufficient... and so on. Realization is present, however acknowledgement will vary person to person.

Political, unfortunately yes. This issue is on a government entity agenda with a board which people will make a decision with a high probability based on their personal belief and feelings. The topic of this thread.

If the 'hunters are litterbugs' comment was the only one that irked a response or was too broad, then you probably agreed with the fact that this is a social issue about private surveillance systems on public land. Sign of times yeah. You may agree that 'leave no trace' holds significant value today and will increase in value in the future. Check out other countries, e.g. Japan. Their citizens use the trash cans by default from the age of 2 til death. It is apart of their culture. Americans not so much.

This issue is more than fair chase (important for wildlife), management (important for sustainment), or the ulterior residual semantics (important for one's entitlement). For some reason a fact is not a central point of emphasis and seemingly only a small minority of citizens recognize this fact. Self evident.

"...time to admit life ain't all beer nor skittles and face the ugly truth jes' if we were all growed up." - Ol Remus
 
That is not reality.

Who do you think will have more initiative, the family guy being subjected to someone's private surveillance system on public land, or the the guy subjecting his private surveillance system on public land?

You are free to do as you want, but one must live with the consequences. Fundamental concept of freedom.
 
Yeah the toilet paper issue is pretty apparent after some hunting seasons. Caught is trees, bushes, stuffed, whatever. Many have no etiquette, unable to dig a hole, let alone lift up a rock. Tough times. Pack it in, pack it out is common in high use areas. It would suck if they didn't.

Respect must be given to some California citizens. Do you know any "hard" people from California? There are plenty. They won't move because it is their home, they are vested, been there for generations, and they commit felonies daily (e.g. concealed carry among other). And no, these are not gang bangers. These are regular middle class people who have made their choice and will not run. Mind that California laid one of the first stepping stones in defying Federal Law in recent time legalizing marijuana, which started back in the 90s. This defiance of law has propagated to more than just pot. Best luck to many of their hard citizens who are having to make tough choices and have been for a long while. Hope they have some good and hard people who are smart and savvy to back them if they get in a tight spot.
 
>So....pack it in; pack it out.
>Right? I assume that also
>includes your used toilet paper.
>After all, that's litter too...right???
>
>
>Let's hear your rationalization for that
>one, guys. Pick it up
>and put it in a
>baggie and take it home
>with you and flush it
>down. That's what the granola
>munchers do. News flash: IT'S
>LITTER! So all you guys
>worried about the litter aspect
>better start bringing baggies with
>you. Just like the tree
>huggers!
>
>Largebull and Dirtclod think everyone should
>only hunt their way. After
>all; it's the ONLY way
>to hunt correctly...right? They deemed
>it so. Everyone else has
>been doing it wrong all
>this time. If they would
>have only told us sooner!
>We could have been doing
>it the right way all
>this time!
>
>StickFlicker and Brian 390 both talk
>sense. I totally get that
>there could be too many
>cams on every waterhole. I
>agree that that would indeed
>suck to be sitting in
>a blind or treestand and
>have someone come in to
>check cams. But here's another
>news flash for you: The
>critters have to drink. They'll
>be back, and usually within
>a few minutes. Most hunters
>know this. Public land hunting
>has it's drawbacks...Limit cams; don't
>ban them.
>
>I get it, guys. I really
>do. It just irks me
>to no end when fellow
>hunters try to restrict other
>hunters doing their thing. Someone
>above mentioned how much Arizona's
>population is going to increase
>over the next several years.
>Man, it's a good thing
>all those folks are hunters,
>or we'd be doomed. Oh,
>wait a minute. THEY'RE NOT!
>In fact, probably 95% of
>them are non-hunters. At least
>as many anti-hunters as hunters
>will be in that number(
>probably more). It's really nice
>of all you guys to
>help them along with their
>agenda. The way I see
>it, that's exactly what you're
>doing. Limit cams: don't ban
>them.
>
>While we're at it, I suggest
>no blinds or treestands at
>the water holes, either. They
>bother me whenever I stop
>by. And there's getting to
>be way too many!
>
>I would be right there to
>restrict trailcam usage with all
>you guys as long as
>we also ban all the
>other stuff that makes your
>hunting easier. But we all
>know that's never gonna happen.
>
>
>I'm 66 years old. I've seen
>plenty of things happen to
>hunting while hunters sit idly
>by and do nothing until
>it affects THEM PERSONALLY. Screw
>everyone else. California legislators just
>introduced a bill that would
>ban anyone from having a
>trophy of the Big 5(
>African game) hanging in their
>house. I can almost guarantee
>that bill will pass. That
>bill passed committee OVERWHELMINGLY! They
>recently fired the head of
>the G&F( Cali) because he
>had the audacity to actually
>have a mountain lion mount
>in the PRIVACY OF HIS
>OWN HOME! We all know(
>or should) that lion hunting
>got BANNED IN CALIFORNIA BY
>PUBLIC VOTE. The way things
>are going in Az, you
>can look for that in
>future years too. The general
>public voting on how or
>what you can hunt. Or
>even if you CAN. How's
>that for repression?! It doesn't
>just happen in foreign countries
>anymore. We got it right
>here and WE EVEN HELP
>THEM GET THIS CRAP PASSED!
>
>
>Oh, and Gleninaz: We'll be seeing
>you soon. But just for
>a visit to the Strip
>or Kaibab. I got 19
>pts for deer. Any suggestions
>on where to go?? ;).
>And no...I'm not ready to
>go there( yet)!
Here in California you don't get to vote on these issues, we are living in a dictatorship and told to Belly up to the Bar to pay more taxes.
 
I'm curious if the over supply will be significant enough for me to pick up some bargains on ebay. Gotta look at the bright side.
 
The one that stood to lose the most were crying to the Commisson. Literally!! A grown man crying over trail cameras. Stunning. Pretty much confirms the REAL reason guides and outfitters didn't want a ban.

Let the shenanigans continue up on the Strip.
 
Well it didn't go the same way in Nevada...


Nevada outdoor enthusiasts,

The Nevada Department of Wildlife wants to ensure that all outdoor enthusiasts are aware of the new seasonal restrictions on the use of trail cameras.

Since 2010, trail cameras have been a topic of discussion in Nevada. The regulation was discussed in dozens of open meetings, including County Advisory Boards to Manage Wildlife, the Nevada Board of Wildlife Commission, and the Legislative Commission. The use of trail cameras, the technology associated with them, and the issues surrounding the use of them have all continued to escalate.

Proponents of the regulation raised several significant issues of concern including the growing commercialization of animal location data. New internet businesses have begun buying and selling GPS location data of animals captured on trail cameras. Also, saturating all or most available water sources with trail cameras in a hunt unit not only disrupts the animals ability to obtain water as camera owners come and go from waters that have as many as 25 or more cameras, but also creates hunter congestion and hunter competition issues. The accessibility to our public lands combined with our wildlife?s dependence on our extremely limited water sources make for some real challenges for both wildlife and outdoor enthusiasts. Proponents of the regulation were quick to point out that whether enhanced, protected, or human created water sources (guzzlers), the waters? primary purpose is to assist in herd health and herd growth, not for placement of a technological device at an animal concentration site that potentially makes it easier to kill trophy animals.

The new trail camera regulation states that a person shall not place, maintain, or use a trail camera or similar device on public land, or private land without permission from the land owner, from August 1 to December 31 of each year, or if the camera is capable of transmitting the images or video, it shall not be used from July 1 to December 31. The regulation does provide some limited exemptions for livestock monitoring, research, and other miscellaneous uses.

NDOW recognizes that there are wholesome and legitimate uses of trail cameras, and unfortunately the use of cameras have been exploited far beyond most sportsmen?s definition of reasonable. If you come across a trail camera on public land from August 1 to December 31, NDOW is asking that you leave the camera alone, and consider calling an NDOW office to report its location.

You can view the complete adopted regulation here.

Sincerely,

Nevada Department of Wildlife



Posted on 7/12/2018 02:25:46 PM
 
Good job Nevada. I still do t know why the fish and game just doesn't charge a hefty price for the use of trail camaras and make money off the gotta have them type people.
 

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