VCNP Tags

TerynItUp

Active Member
Messages
609
There is an awful thread going on in the General Forum right now with a discussion (argument really) centered around the expo and conservation tags that Utah has and whether or not those tags should be transferred back to the general draw pools. I didn't read nearly half of it but it got me thinking about the recent changes to the Valles Caldera tags.

It wasn't long ago that those tags were awarded by a raffle draw, with no limit to the number of tickets you could buy at $20/ea. I think (memory is fuzzy) they then reduced it so that each person could only buy one ticket to make it more fair for all those who couldn't afford to spend lots of money on tickets. Then they finally landed where we are now with the tags being allocated just like all the other tags are, with a hunt code, assigned number of tags and subject to the same draw process as all other tags.

I have a few questions:
1. Where did the money generated from the ticket sales go when it was unlimited? (I assume back to the preserve).
2. Once they reduced it to 1 ticket/hunter, what were the financial impacts?
3. Now that they are issued through the draw, who gets the revenue generated specifically from those hunts? If its not the preserve, how are they making up for the loss of revenue?

I really don't have a strong opinion on this, I am just curious how it all went down.

Hunt Hard. Shoot Straight. Kill Clean. Apologize to No One.
 
From my understanding when the tickets were unlimited the preserve was in charge so as to where the proceeds went your guess is as good as mine but being private I'm sure somebody's pocket was full. When NMGDF took over they changed it to one ticket so I'm sure the proceeds went back to the wildlife system and them upgrading our units. So I'm sure the financial impact was not really noticed because of the change of hands. And now the proceeds go to game and fish which like I said before goes back into our system. From my understanding this is what happened but if I am wrong I am sorry. But I'm sure other people will correct me if I misspoke.
 
It's been a while since I looked at this issue, but if I remember correctly, when it was unlimited "tickets" up until you were limited to one ticket per hunt code, the money went to the preserve. But it was not private. The preserve had a mandate to become "self sufficient" within a certain period of time. And the money that came in for tags went towards that goal of being "self sufficient". I have not heard the impact on income generated when they went from unlimited tickets to a more limited number. But the former hunt director did indicate that when they went to only one tag per hunt code, the loss in revenue was significant. (The "one tag per hunt code" also resulted in a lot of people applying and drawing the bow hunts who had never hunted elk with a bow before. And the number of shot but never recovered elk skyrocketed for the bow hunts)

Since the preserve failed to meet their mandate to become self sufficient (which was inevitable) they have been placed in their current position. I don't know who gets the money from applications, but I assume it is the State. Now that the "VCNP" no longer is required to be self sufficient, Federal funds keep it afloat.
 
I think that now that G&F has retained the elk hunting, the public should be allowed to hunt all legal animals there. Unit 6 should be returned to a single unit including the Baca Grant, or 6B should be a refuge and 6A should be combined with 6C. I find it hard to believe that elk and turkey are the only animals on that much property that are worthy of management. G&F is setting a dangerous precedent to the public to not acknowledge that the small game, deer, and predators also need to be managed. What will we do when predator hunting is stopped in other units because there is no need for it in 6C?
 
AlleninNM is spot on with the topic. VCNP was given 15 years to become self sufficient in running the preserve. Hunting was the biggest revenue contributor to the VC.
When the it was unlimited ticket sale. Some hunters would buy how much they can afford per hunt code. Some hunters have hunted 7-8 times with in the 15 years. Even after going to one ticket per hunt. Same hunter were drawing... luck of the draw.
With unlimited ticket sales the revenue was high and when it went to single ticket the revenue dropped but slowly went up. All of the revenue that the VC made all went to the preserve as AlleninNM mentioned it needed to be self sufficient.
 
>I think that now that G&F
>has retained the elk hunting,
>the public should be allowed
>to hunt all legal animals
>there. Unit 6 should
>be returned to a single
>unit including the Baca Grant,
>or 6B should be a
>refuge and 6A should be
>combined with 6C. I
>find it hard to believe
>that elk and turkey are
>the only animals on that
>much property that are worthy
>of management. G&F is
>setting a dangerous precedent to
>the public to not acknowledge
>that the small game, deer,
>and predators also need to
>be managed. What will
>we do when predator hunting
>is stopped in other units
>because there is no need
>for it in 6C?

Predator control, at least while it was designated as a preserve, was non-existent. A study was done looking at elk calf survival rates on the VCNP and around the state. The VCNP had the second lowest elk calf survival rate in the state. (I believe the VV had the lowest. Not sure why) In looking at the issue a little closer, they determined the the majority of elk calves were being killed by bears. They estimated the bear population tripled during calving season.

If you've been to the VC, you know the coyotes have no fear of humans. You can sit and watch them hunt for mice 30 yards away. And while the coyotes do take some elk calves, the percentage was much smaller than I had anticipated.

There are quite a few stories of hunters leaving their elk overnight and coming back in the morning to find mountain lion on the kill or evidence they had been on the kill.

I would love to see some predator hunting opportunities made available. Given the pressures that were in place to do away with ALL hunting at the time the switch took place that resulted in the current management, I am doubtful it will happen.
 
The Valle is less than a mile from my property which will probably be burning again in a couple days. My point was that it is setting a dangerous precedent by only allowing hunting for certain species in specific units. Imagine if they used the 6B management model in the Gila to ensure Wolves don't get shot. Or use it in the northern units to protect the lynx.
 
Now that the VCNP is in the hands of the Park Service (Bandelier NP) I doubt you will see anything but more and more restrictive hunting opportunities. Original legislation called for it to revert to the US Forest Service (think Santa Fe National Forest) if it did not become self sufficient in 15 years. Politicians and lobbying groups pulled a fast one instead and slipped a rider legislation into a massive bill to fund the federal government without any public involvement. DIRTY!

My point is that Park Service does not have a multiple use mission and therefore has a very restrictive mindset. Expanding hunting/fishing opportunity is extremely doubtful in my mind. While hunting is allowed in the legislation, they will make it more and more difficult to hunt the VCNP. For example, as soon as they got the VCNP they severely restricted road access and where you could park along the one major road into the area. Watch them! We will have to fight to maintain what we have today and that ain't much. Just saying!!
 

New Mexico Guides & Outfitters

H & A Outfitters

Private and public land hunts since 1992 for elk, mule deer, sheep, pronghorn, black Bear & lion hunts.

505 Outfitters

Public and private land big game hunts. Rifle, muzzleloader and archery hunts available. Free Draw Application Service!

Sierra Blanca Outfitters

Offering a wide array of hunt opportunities and putting clients in prime position to bag a trophy.

Urge 2 Hunt

Hunts in New Mexico on private ranches and remote public land in the top units. Elk vouchers available.

Mangas Outfitters

Landowner tags available! Hunt big bulls and bucks. Any season and multiple hunt units to choose from.

Back
Top Bottom