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16E wolf situation

 
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elkfanatic
(128 posts)
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Aug-04-17, 
10:13 PM (MST)
"16E wolf situation"

Hey guys,

Hate to beat a dead horse here with the way that the wolves seem to be headed these days and the many threads that have come up lately. However, I'm going to be in 16E for the first archery season and I'm wondering how much an issue it is going to be there since I will have a first time hunter with me as well? I'm hoping to get him an elk and then have some time for my tag to chase some of the bigger bulls around.

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  Table of Contents  

 Subject   Author   Message Date   ID 
 RE: 16E wolf s...  throwfar      Aug-05-17   1 
  RE: 16E wolf s...  mozey      Aug-05-17   2 
   RE: 16E wolf s...  mossback50c...      Aug-05-17   3 
   RE: 16E wolf s...  tallpine13      Aug-05-17   4 
    RE: 16E wolf s...  mozey      Aug-05-17   5 
     RE: 16E wolf s...  tallpine13      Aug-06-17   7 
 RE: 16E wolf s...  Azn505      Aug-06-17   6 
  RE: 16E wolf s...  tallpine13      Aug-06-17   8 
   RE: 16E wolf s...  Azn505      Aug-06-17   10 
 RE: 16E wolf s...  WoodsD9      Aug-06-17   9 
  RE: 16E wolf s...  DoeNob      Aug-09-17   11 
   RE: 16E wolf s...  jessbad      Aug-09-17   12 
    RE: 16E wolf s...  bobby      Aug-10-17   13 
     RE: 16E wolf s...  BUGLEnmIN      Aug-11-17   14 
      RE: 16E wolf s...  throwfar      Aug-11-17   15 
      RE: 16E wolf s...  264mag      Sep-19-17   18 
 RE: 16E wolf s...  throwfar      Sep-19-17   16 
  RE: 16E wolf s...  elkfanatic      Sep-19-17   17 
   RE: 16E wolf s...  mozey      Sep-19-17   19 
   RE: 16E wolf s...  throwfar      Sep-20-17   20 
    RE: 16E wolf s...  JACOB2006      Sep-24-17   21 
     RE: 16E wolf s...  nmhntr      Sep-25-17   22 
      RE: 16E wolf s...  Bowdeadly      Sep-25-17   23 
       RE: 16E wolf s...  joesikora      Sep-25-17   24 
        RE: 16E wolf s...  mozey      Sep-26-17   25 

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throwfar
(60 posts)
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Aug-05-17, 
10:25 AM (MST)
1. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

Wolves are definitely in the unit (as with all the 16's), elk numbers are lower than they have been. Going to be a tough hunt in a tough unit, good luck.
Listen to the meat eater pod cast they put the number of elk lost to wolves around 1,600 per year, where hunters took around 2,000 from the greater Gila herd last year. Hunting is going to be rough for the foreseeable future in the Gila, especially since they want to increase the number of wolves from 110 to 325 so you can multiply that 1,600 by 3.

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mozey
(2444 posts)
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Aug-05-17, 
05:26 PM (MST)
2. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

I just got back an hour ago from two days in 16e. I took a scout troop in to do some shed hunting. We did not find a single shed, whereas in years past I used to still find them as late as November. There is no question in my mind that the elk and deer number are way down from where they were just three years ago. It was two years ago that I first saw wolves in there. Maybe some joker wants to say that wolves are not blame, but they would have a hard time convincing me. I say having too many elk was a nice problem to have--just issue more tags. But that's not anything we'll need to worry about for awhile now. I'll be surprised if I live long enough to see the elk or deer herds ever come back to the way they were.

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mossback50cal
(483 posts)
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Aug-05-17, 
07:39 PM (MST)
3. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

I agree mozey. Things are getting worse and worse. And what do these pro wolf peopke say? "We arent concerned about elk or deer numbers in our objective." They could care less if they completely wipe out other animals, as long as their agenda gets pushed. Typical government.

*We are all in the same boat, just
wishing to be hunting right now!*

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tallpine13
(66 posts)
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Aug-05-17, 
09:59 PM (MST)
4. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

Don't be telling me that mozey! I've got the second archery tag and I haven't been back in 2years.... saw some dandy bulls I'm hoping to get down the next few weeks and get in there and set some cameras up.

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mozey
(2444 posts)
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Aug-05-17, 
10:08 PM (MST)
5. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

I saw four bulls on this trip--one was pretty nice. But compared to what I used to see, the numbers are still way down.

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tallpine13
(66 posts)
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Aug-06-17, 
06:49 AM (MST)
7. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

Yeah 2 years ago I helped a buddy pack his out from that dirty ol hole back in there. We both vowed not to shoot anything under 350-360 in there again. Needless to say our hunt ended after packin him out 5 miles we decided there was no way we could bring another one out.... but same story from my previous experiences. Numbers and quality are dropping..... faster then I'd like to admit probably

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Azn505
(2 posts)
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Aug-06-17, 
00:58 AM (MST)
6. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

LAST EDITED ON Aug-06-17 AT 00:58 AM (MST)

Were any of you guys in luera by chance. Also have 2nd hunt

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tallpine13
(66 posts)
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Aug-06-17, 
07:29 AM (MST)
8. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

but back to the wolves, we definitely need to figure a way to put an end to it. i personally haven't seen many in there just heard for the most part but even in D last year with my wife we saw more wolves then i would like and it made the elk shut up and not say a peep. Im curious about all the wild donkeys in E as well when they are going to do something about those. had a donkey cost me a 360-370 bull we named kicker..... never saw him again

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Azn505
(2 posts)
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Aug-06-17, 
01:48 PM (MST)
10. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

I was wondering about the donkeys also we saw a couple sets of them as well

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WoodsD9
(85 posts)
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Aug-06-17, 
10:01 AM (MST)
9. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

I had never been into the gila until this year but I can say that through 3 scouting trips this summer my wife and I saw a ton of elk and almost every cow had a calf. I'm not a wolf expert but I would expect they would wreck havoc on those calves but from what we saw that was not the case. Also we have not seen a wolf on any of our trips down there (did see a ton of coyotes though!). I'm not a fan of wolves but the gila doesn't seem to have been hit like the Wyoming wolf areas.

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DoeNob
(760 posts)
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Aug-09-17, 
12:57 PM (MST)
11. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

LAST EDITED ON Aug-09-17 AT 12:57 PM (MST)

What part of the Gila WooodD9?

My buddy and I have 2 of the 4 NR unguided rifle tags in E, keep us posted on what you see during the archery season. I hunted it 5 years ago with my father and an outfitter, relying on that trip, but sounds like it's a whole different ball game from then.

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jessbad
(70 posts)
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Aug-09-17, 
01:45 PM (MST)
12. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

I was down in Willow Creek campground during the 4th and saw herd of 18 cows on Loco Mountain in 16a. The cows were all healthy and looked to be in good condition. My wife and I did a little stalk on them to get a closer look. We got within 50 yds and as they passed by us and we did not see a single calf with them. I was curious so I looked on the US Fish and Wildlife website to see the locations of wolves(as they post it frequently at https://www.fws.gov/southwest/es/mexicanwolf/RWL.cfm) and it just so happens that wolf 1251 and 1155 were in the area of the herd at that time. Coincidence? Hmmmmm....seems like a correlation. There are not enough wolves currently to effect every elk range now but given the numbers they are predicting its only a matter of time. I saw my first wolf in 16e 5 years ago and it seems that the wolf who frequents that unit is usually just passing through(I spoke to the US Fish and Wildlife Bioligist what he thought) and not residing there now but give it some time. Currently there are two in the San Mateos and one just north of Hwy 60. I think as far as numbers in this unit they may be down due to predators as we have seen a lot more the last few years. Mozey is right the numbers are not what they used to be and do not seem to be increasing.

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bobby
(104 posts)
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Aug-10-17, 
10:19 AM (MST)
13. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

Almost threw up in my mouth seeing this and i reviewed the site the numbers seem extremely distorted fore example the aplha 903 lived 13 years and had 9 liters say 2 pups survives that is 18 wolfs from one alpha ... numbers seem skewed... Any way i though an interesting note was the high Number of illegal mortality through the years , seems that street justice is the only justice its either that or have a repeat of yellowstone ...

Intresting read if you have time to browse the site lots of "data" not sure on its accuracy but hey what do i know

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BUGLEnmIN
(960 posts)
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Aug-11-17, 
11:17 AM (MST)
14. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

LAST EDITED ON Aug-11-17 AT 11:18 AM (MST)

I'm with Robert on this, vigilante justice seems like the way to protect what we love so much. I spoke to Stoney on the phone couple days ago and the amount of money that is going to be spent on the dogs will make you throw up for sure. All for a stupid mutt that kills for sport. It's the libs and greenies way of getting the hunters out .

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throwfar
(60 posts)
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Aug-11-17, 
12:00 PM (MST)
15. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

You really just have to shake your head, all the money spent on these wolves would be so much better spent on education, habitat improvement, defense, or infrastructure. What a waste.

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264mag
(6333 posts)
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Sep-19-17, 
04:30 PM (MST)
18. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

>LAST EDITED ON Aug-11-17
>AT 11:18 AM (MST)

>
>I'm with Robert on this, vigilante
>justice seems like the way
>to protect what we love
>so much. I spoke to
>Stoney on the phone couple
>days ago and the amount
>of money that is going
>to be spent on the
> dogs will make you
>throw up for sure. All
>for a stupid mutt that
>kills for sport. It's the
>libs and greenies way of
>getting the hunters out .
>
+1

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throwfar
(60 posts)
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Sep-19-17, 
10:34 AM (MST)
16. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

How'd the hunt turn out?

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elkfanatic
(128 posts)
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Sep-19-17, 
04:18 PM (MST)
17. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

It was a difficult hunt. We hunted hard and had limited opportunities. Every elk hunt I have ever been on, I have shot a shot; however, this one I never got an opportunity. I was busted by 2 cows and a spike while tying to get shots off on them. We saw a very limited crop of bulls until my partner went back on the last day. He said they must have came out of the timber to play once the cows finally went into estrus. In the first 5 days (Sept 1-4, Sept 9-10), we heard 2 bugles from the same bull. In the last day (Sept 14) he was there, he heard over 20 bugles. We did find one stud but he was too far for us to have gotten out without taking extra time we didn't have. Saw a lot of coyotes and could have killed at least 3 bucks if I had a tag. Of course the bulls on the 16D side were bugling the first day; however, the other side of the road was quiet. It was quite odd. We had a good time though. Learned a lot

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mozey
(2444 posts)
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Sep-19-17, 
09:14 PM (MST)
19. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

What a shame--very sorry to hear that. I haven't put in for it since seeing the wolves, but for the four years that I hunted it prior to that, 16e was a pretty good unit; had some really nice bucks in there too.

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throwfar
(60 posts)
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Sep-20-17, 
08:23 AM (MST)
20. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

Interesting thanks for sharing.

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JACOB2006
(417 posts)
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Sep-24-17, 
03:27 PM (MST)
21. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

Just got back yesterday, believe me they are everywhere! Heard them every day and in every spot I hunted. I believe their estimates are WAY OFF!

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nmhntr
(138 posts)
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Sep-25-17, 
06:13 PM (MST)
22. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

I hear you. Called in 6 wolves last year during a unit 16 first season elk archery. Not a single wolf I saw had a collar. Not wanting to compete we the wolves we went to a different area in the unit and tagged out.

On a side topic, USFW said during a podcast this summer that each wolf kills 20 "cow elk equivalents" annually. By my calcs, 2,100 elk in the great Gila get taken annually based on the confirmed wolf numbers. Once the population gets to 300 wolves they will harvest 6,000 elk annually.

I agree with you that the official wolf numbers seem to be low based on my limited observations of non-collared wolves.

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Bowdeadly
(152 posts)
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Sep-25-17, 
08:20 PM (MST)
23. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

We need an exterminator!

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joesikora
(1370 posts)
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Sep-25-17, 
10:26 PM (MST)
24. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

Mozey are they transplanting the wolves or are they just migrating that way?
If they're migrating into the area what is NMGF's stand on this?
Sucks having the wolves in a great elk hunting area

Thanks for your time

Joe

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora

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mozey
(2444 posts)
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Sep-26-17, 
02:01 PM (MST)
25. "RE: 16E wolf situation"

I actually don't know. My guess is that the wolves are just expanding their range.

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