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16E on the Decline

 
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tallpine13
(68 posts)
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Sep-24-17, 
04:42 PM (MST)
"16E on the Decline"

After this years hunt I definitely think 16E is on the decline. Every year i see the quality go down just a little more and the numbers go down as well. Personally I think 16E could be a big bull unit but the way it is being managed in my eyes is garbage. I'm sure ill get some feedback from everyone but they are issuing to many tags. I also think they should do away with the muzzy hunt just like in 16A and 16D and id say at least 25%of the archery tags and rifle tags. I don't understand why they are using 16E as an "opportunity" unit. i still saw some quality bulls on my hunt but from what I've seen in years passed not even close on quality and numbers. We blame wolves for numbers dropping but in my opinion i think thats just an excuse to what the real problem is and that is 16E being over hunted. How many hunters would pay more for better quality? I dang sure would. Even if they moved the resident/nonresident ratio 5-10% to make up for the revenue lost i think it would only benefit. We packed in on our hunt in an area that is usually loaded with elk and this year it was the hardest I've every had to hunt E to get opportunities (walking 10-12 miles a day) On a side note I was really surprised with the lack of water in tanks as well. Most tanks and wallows we normally hunt were dry or had very very little water.

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  Table of Contents  

 Subject   Author   Message Date   ID 
 RE: 16E on the...  BUGLEnmIN      Sep-24-17   1 
  RE: 16E on the...  tallpine13      Sep-24-17   2 
   RE: 16E on the...  mozey      Sep-24-17   3 
    RE: 16E on the...  BUGLEnmIN      Sep-25-17   4 
 RE: 16E on the...  throwfar      Sep-25-17   5 
  RE: 16E on the...  BUGLEnmIN      Sep-25-17   6 
   RE: 16E on the...  tallpine13      Sep-28-17   7 

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BUGLEnmIN
(962 posts)
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Sep-24-17, 
08:54 PM (MST)
1. "RE: 16E on the Decline"

16d and A have just as many hunts as E. The hunts in those units should have a bigger impact on the elk herd considering there are more tags and instead of a muzzy hunt it is a rifle hunt. E has way less public land tags than any of the other 16's. E simply does not have the habitat to sustain as many elk as the other 16's and the wolves indeed are taking a toll . Of course the occasional slobs are seen and killed but there will never be as many there as in the rest of the gila.landowners shady business is effecting that unit as well as many others. They're selling RO tags and sending guides onto state and blm . Me and a few others are trying to get g&f to do something about one really bad outfitter right now. Even with solid evidence the game department has done nothing.

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tallpine13
(68 posts)
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Sep-24-17, 
10:13 PM (MST)
2. "RE: 16E on the Decline"

i agree, but if they limited the tags it would make it a way better unit. I've hunt 16E now more then any unit in the state and i have seen it go from a Quality unit if you put in work to a unit if you put in more work than most you might have an opportunity. I have personally walked down a public road and been told by a outfitter I'm on private property and need to leave ASAP, Showed them my tracks on my GPS on how i went around the private to access the road and it just pissed them off more. i do believe that outfitter should be shut down because it is BS how they have very very limited private in elk country but they are so secluded that they don't give a dang and hunt 30,000+ acres of prime habitat. After we have watched them kill elk on public land with only private land tags..... i showed them the evidence and it got me walking access across the private for 1 hunt only. I am good friends with the managers of the Luera ranch they are great people( and I don't hunt the Luera) and looking at trail cam pictures of elk from 2003-Now.... HUGE difference. numerous 400's a year to the biggest bull being in the 340's-350's on the ranch. which is crazy because i know people probably complain about the ranch but 99% of hunters push elk onto that property because they don't know how to hunt and not bump elk out of the country. Wolves I am not 100% convinced are the cause of the major decrease in numbers of elk... 16D and 16A and 20X the elk population as 16E and have similar numbers in tags which doesn't make sense because like you said 16E doesn't have the habitat to sustain those numbers. so why do they have very similar amounts of tags.... i honestly think they should be cut in half but then residents/outfitters/nonresidents would cry but I'm more for a quality hunt and i believe 16E has and can produce some giant year end and year out with proper management. talk to some of the ranchers that lease the BLM they will agree that quality and numbers have dropped tremendously we can all sit here and say its because the Wolves but thats just a small fraction. WE need to be able to manage them better and the Game and Fish needs to realize it and pick up some slack because it would benefit them in the end. Look at AZ and UT I'm not a preference point fan but i know in 15 years (sitting on 7 points) I will have an opportunity to kill a bull of a lifetime and we don't complain about it. d

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mozey
(2444 posts)
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Sep-24-17, 
11:21 PM (MST)
3. "RE: 16E on the Decline"

LAST EDITED ON Sep-24-17 AT 11:23 PM (MST)

Based on what I'm seeing, it's the quantity that has dropped off significantly. I'll have to go back and look, but I don't remember there being a significant increase in 16e tags during the years that I hunted it. To me, I didn't note any decline until the actual hunt that I saw wolves.

I don't disagree with you that the number tags now needs to be reduced, but I believe it's too much of a coincidence to not believe that the huge decline in elk, deer, and even turkeys doesn't have something to do with the introduction of wolves.

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BUGLEnmIN
(962 posts)
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Sep-25-17, 
05:23 AM (MST)
4. "RE: 16E on the Decline"

I agree ,numbers have dropped significantly. I do believe the dogs are a huge part it. It's numbers across most of the gila that have got hit IMO.

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throwfar
(60 posts)
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Sep-25-17, 
03:54 PM (MST)
5. "RE: 16E on the Decline"

Couldn't agree more, I've hunted E for the past 7 years and have consistently seen less and less elk. It used to be the perfect unit to put in for since it is a unit with limited access and tough terrain, which kept the fair weather hunters out. Now you hunt hard to see a decent bull which most of the time is being pushed by other hunters since there are so many tags and so few elk.
I for one agree with less tags even if it means I hunt less, at least the hunt quality would be improved.
Nothing we can do about the wolves, but killing bears and lions wouldn't hurt the elk population. So I will be in there this fall hunting lions and bears, in hopes of saving a few elk.

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BUGLEnmIN
(962 posts)
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Sep-25-17, 
04:27 PM (MST)
6. "RE: 16E on the Decline"

>Couldn't agree more, I've hunted E
>for the past 7 years
>and have consistently seen less
>and less elk. It used
>to be the perfect unit
>to put in for since
>it is a unit with
>limited access and tough terrain,
>which kept the fair weather
>hunters out. Now you hunt
>hard to see a decent
>bull which most of the
>time is being pushed by
>other hunters since there are
>so many tags and so
>few elk.
>I for one agree with less
>tags even if it means
>I hunt less, at least
>the hunt quality would be
>improved.
>Nothing we can do about the
>wolves, but killing bears and
>lions wouldn't hurt the elk
>population. So I will be
>in there this fall hunting
>lions and bears, in hopes
>of saving a few elk.
>

Good form throw far!! Allot of guys are one the verge of mistaking those mangy mutts for coyotes.
I get sick to my stomach thinking about it. I assure you it's in the other units also. 15 has plummeted , I think D is doing the best as far as elk numbers. Alot of wolves already there also.

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tallpine13
(68 posts)
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Sep-28-17, 
11:04 AM (MST)
7. "RE: 16E on the Decline"

16E will still be my third choice but I will be going back to first season. It was the first time I've hunted second season and I'd rather have a few more days to find what I'm looking.

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