Opinion of WT taking over
- Thread starter lve2143
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mossback50cal
Very Active Member
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I don't think that's what anyone wants, honestly.
*We are all in the same boat, just
wishing to be hunting right now!*
*We are all in the same boat, just
wishing to be hunting right now!*
RabidRattleSnake1
Active Member
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- 644
We need to build a "wall" to keep them out!!!! Oh wait.....never mind
kidoelk777
Active Member
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Last year there were 2 whitetail bucks about 3 miles away from The Taos Plaza in one of my buddies fields eating with his cattle. They are moving in.
Trad Bow 1979
Active Member
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I don't get it, what is the issue? Is there an issue with more deer? There are tons of areas where mule deer and Whitetails coexist. Hell I've seen whitetails with elk in 16A.
BUGLEnmIN
Very Active Member
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I've hunted the gila region for a years now and have never seen a north American white tail there . I've seen couse deer,but no north American. The Bosque river bed of the Rio Grande is loaded with them from socorro all the way north of bernalillo .. actually saw our first one in the sandias last January.
northernNMhtr
Member
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- 86
About four or fives years ago I saw two WT bucks by the Rio Chama between Abiquiu and Medanales. I drive through there frequently and I haven't seen them again.
?never saw a North American white tail?? The whitetail I killed here was probably born here in North America, where else would it have come from? Coues are a sub-specie of the eastern whitetail. The whitetail migrating into the north and east are eastern whitetails. I'm all for more deer to hunt.
? Bill
? Bill
BUGLEnmIN
Very Active Member
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- 2,867
>?never saw a North American white
>tail?? The whitetail I
>killed here was probably born
>here in North America, where
>else would it have come
>from? Coues are a
>sub-specie of the eastern whitetail.
> The whitetail migrating into
>the north and east are
>eastern whitetails. I'm all
>for more deer to hunt.
>
>
>? Bill
Always gotta be an egotistical ass trolling these forums.. sorry EASTERN WHITETAIL ..Smart ass... You know what I meant ,not a couse.
>tail?? The whitetail I
>killed here was probably born
>here in North America, where
>else would it have come
>from? Coues are a
>sub-specie of the eastern whitetail.
> The whitetail migrating into
>the north and east are
>eastern whitetails. I'm all
>for more deer to hunt.
>
>
>? Bill
Always gotta be an egotistical ass trolling these forums.. sorry EASTERN WHITETAIL ..Smart ass... You know what I meant ,not a couse.
WaylandCanyon
Member
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- 60
What changes in land use, ecosystems and/or deer management practices are driving this "takeover"?
Reuben_Soady
Active Member
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- 332
I've heard that the Eastern White Tail (EWT) is more aggressive than the Mule Deer(MD), and would hazard a guess that they normally inhabit the same habitat (food terrain ect), suggesting that our already declining MD herd would be negatively impacted by more EWTs moving in.
Could NMGF add hunt codes for EWTs only, the same way they do with Coues?
Could enough EWT tags be issued to keep or move that species out of critical MD habitat?
Can NM hunters tell the difference in the heat of the moment?
Do NM really care if the MD herd is reduced even more?
Could NMGF add hunt codes for EWTs only, the same way they do with Coues?
Could enough EWT tags be issued to keep or move that species out of critical MD habitat?
Can NM hunters tell the difference in the heat of the moment?
Do NM really care if the MD herd is reduced even more?
LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-17 AT 08:36PM (MST)[p]Why is it so hard to write what you mean? Pretty simple to read what you wrote before you hit post. Although you assume I know what you mean others may look up to what you post as gospel.
Thanks for the kind words,
?Bill
Oh, bye the way. It's Coues, not ?couse?.
Thanks for the kind words,
?Bill
Oh, bye the way. It's Coues, not ?couse?.
WaylandCanyon
Member
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- 60
LAST EDITED ON Dec-19-17 AT 03:10PM (MST)[p]I am not sure whitetails are more "aggressive" than mule deer. I have always heard they are more adaptable to different habitat, and that they are much more tolerant of human activity. They can live out their lives on a few acres of home ground, and don't need wide open spaces to roam the way mule deer seem to. This is one of the things that makes them relatively easier to hunt -- being creatures of habit on a relatively small home turf, such as your Uncle Ed's cornfield in Iowa.
Prime_Beef
Active Member
- Messages
- 183
>.....The Bosque river bed
>of the Rio Grande is
> loaded with them from
>socorro all the way north
>of bernalillo ...
This.
>of the Rio Grande is
> loaded with them from
>socorro all the way north
>of bernalillo ...
This.
Reuben_Soady
Active Member
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- 332
LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-17 AT 01:34PM (MST)[p]OK, the issue is not pugnacious EWT bucks locking antlers with more complaisant MD bucks so scratch "aggressive"...but still, encroachment or intrusion of EWTs will have an adverse affect on the MD population b/c there's only so much deer chow to go around.
I don't think I'm starting an argument around here when I say it should be pretty clear that nature does not take care of itself very well, and that if we want a good balanced environment, including useful wildlife populations, then we have a custodial responsibility to provide some management.
I'm pretty sure that we cannot say in one breath that the MD herd needs help and tag numbers should be severely reduced, and then in the next breath say it's OK that EwTs should be allowed to roam willynilly across the state.
If we really want to control the EWT is 100 tags enough?
50 FAWTD and 45 ESWTD (youth only) tags in GMW-41, 42, 57, 58, and 59 (in 2017 thanks WFG)
I'm not going to get all emotional and wound up about it, but if I had to choose, I would treat the EWT in central New Mexico like the Northern Pike in Angel Fire Lake. How's that for an opinion?
I don't think I'm starting an argument around here when I say it should be pretty clear that nature does not take care of itself very well, and that if we want a good balanced environment, including useful wildlife populations, then we have a custodial responsibility to provide some management.
I'm pretty sure that we cannot say in one breath that the MD herd needs help and tag numbers should be severely reduced, and then in the next breath say it's OK that EwTs should be allowed to roam willynilly across the state.
If we really want to control the EWT is 100 tags enough?
50 FAWTD and 45 ESWTD (youth only) tags in GMW-41, 42, 57, 58, and 59 (in 2017 thanks WFG)
I'm not going to get all emotional and wound up about it, but if I had to choose, I would treat the EWT in central New Mexico like the Northern Pike in Angel Fire Lake. How's that for an opinion?
WaylandCanyon
Member
- Messages
- 60
Reuben, I don't think that's unreasonable at all. Not a thing wrong with trying to keep New Mexico game populations "as they were" in the face of an invader. Think feral swine.
RioHuntNutt
Active Member
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- 831
I love whitetails so Im good with them...
Since the deer population sucks in New Mexico, I don't see it as a bad thing. It will provide sportsmen more opportunities, so it's all good. As far as there is only so much food, the deer population is no where large enough compared to the existing food supply. Until the deer herd gets big enough to start offering antlerless tags, it is not being managed correctly.
LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-17 AT 12:00PM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-17
>AT 01:34?PM (MST)
>
>OK, the issue is not pugnacious
>EWT bucks locking antlers with
>more complaisant MD bucks so
>scratch "aggressive"...but still, encroachment or
>intrusion of EWTs will have
>an adverse affect on the
>MD population b/c there's only
>so much deer chow to
>go around.
>
>I don't think I'm starting an
>argument around here when I
>say it should be pretty
>clear that nature does not
>take care of itself very
>well, and that if we
>want a good balanced environment,
>including useful wildlife populations, then
>we have a custodial responsibility
>to provide some management.
>
>I'm pretty sure that we cannot
>say in one breath that
>the MD herd needs help
>and tag numbers should be
>severely reduced, and then in
>the next breath say it's
>OK that EwTs should be
>allowed to roam willynilly across
>the state.
>
>If we really want to control
>the EWT is 100 tags
>enough?
>50 FAWTD and 45 ESWTD (youth
>only) tags in GMW-41, 42,
>57, 58, and 59 (in
>2017 thanks WFG)
>
>I'm not going to get all
>emotional and wound up about
>it, but if I had
>to choose, I would treat
>the EWT in central New
>Mexico like the Northern Pike
>in Angel Fire Lake. How's
>that for an opinion?
Looking at the deer license numbers in the units you posted, 41, 42, 57, 58 & 59. There are a total of 597 public licenses issued with the potential to kill a Whitetail. 95 of those are designated for Whitetail only, the remaining 502 are for a FAD (either specie is legal). This doesn't include any licenses that landowners can use or authorize on their private land.
Harvest report from 2016-2017 shows that 1,362 licenses were sold with an average of 72% reporting for an average success rate of 56%. Let's use the 72% that reported, of that 33 were Whitetails, that's like a 6% success rate for Whitetail deer of the overall kill.
Is it correct to believe that most of the better deer habitat is private in these units? Almost 600 public licenses seems pretty good considering the land availability. Everyone of those licenses is legal to kill a Whitetail with, including the over 100% more issued to and by private landowners.
Merry Christmas,
?Bill
>AT 01:34?PM (MST)
>
>OK, the issue is not pugnacious
>EWT bucks locking antlers with
>more complaisant MD bucks so
>scratch "aggressive"...but still, encroachment or
>intrusion of EWTs will have
>an adverse affect on the
>MD population b/c there's only
>so much deer chow to
>go around.
>
>I don't think I'm starting an
>argument around here when I
>say it should be pretty
>clear that nature does not
>take care of itself very
>well, and that if we
>want a good balanced environment,
>including useful wildlife populations, then
>we have a custodial responsibility
>to provide some management.
>
>I'm pretty sure that we cannot
>say in one breath that
>the MD herd needs help
>and tag numbers should be
>severely reduced, and then in
>the next breath say it's
>OK that EwTs should be
>allowed to roam willynilly across
>the state.
>
>If we really want to control
>the EWT is 100 tags
>enough?
>50 FAWTD and 45 ESWTD (youth
>only) tags in GMW-41, 42,
>57, 58, and 59 (in
>2017 thanks WFG)
>
>I'm not going to get all
>emotional and wound up about
>it, but if I had
>to choose, I would treat
>the EWT in central New
>Mexico like the Northern Pike
>in Angel Fire Lake. How's
>that for an opinion?
Looking at the deer license numbers in the units you posted, 41, 42, 57, 58 & 59. There are a total of 597 public licenses issued with the potential to kill a Whitetail. 95 of those are designated for Whitetail only, the remaining 502 are for a FAD (either specie is legal). This doesn't include any licenses that landowners can use or authorize on their private land.
Harvest report from 2016-2017 shows that 1,362 licenses were sold with an average of 72% reporting for an average success rate of 56%. Let's use the 72% that reported, of that 33 were Whitetails, that's like a 6% success rate for Whitetail deer of the overall kill.
Is it correct to believe that most of the better deer habitat is private in these units? Almost 600 public licenses seems pretty good considering the land availability. Everyone of those licenses is legal to kill a Whitetail with, including the over 100% more issued to and by private landowners.
Merry Christmas,
?Bill
Gator
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 18,131
If there is room for them they will move in to good areas that have the right stuff. Agri lands are what they like best.
That being said in SD we have them on both sides of the river and Whitetail bucks are Tough as H3ll on breeding anything looks like a deer, many of time we have seen the bucks fight and ends up with a WT winning.About the only good thing is those crossbreed bucks aren't as smart as a Muley or WT and seem their rack are more Wt then Muley. About the only buck that will hold it own is a Book type buck (Big rack and Big body) that has some weight on him.
The problem is those bucks can only cover so much area and as they get worn down those smaller WT will start beating him.
The fact is WT is like Prairie Dogs they will be hard to shot out.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
That being said in SD we have them on both sides of the river and Whitetail bucks are Tough as H3ll on breeding anything looks like a deer, many of time we have seen the bucks fight and ends up with a WT winning.About the only good thing is those crossbreed bucks aren't as smart as a Muley or WT and seem their rack are more Wt then Muley. About the only buck that will hold it own is a Book type buck (Big rack and Big body) that has some weight on him.
The problem is those bucks can only cover so much area and as they get worn down those smaller WT will start beating him.
The fact is WT is like Prairie Dogs they will be hard to shot out.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
MasterOfNothing
New Member
- Messages
- 4
LAST EDITED ON Jan-26-18 AT 11:36AM (MST)[p]>I've hunted the gila region for
>a years now and have
>never seen a north American
>white tail there . I've
>seen couse deer,but no north
>American. The Bosque river bed
>of the Rio Grande is
> loaded with them from
>socorro all the way north
>of bernalillo .. actually saw
>our first one in the
>sandias last January.
I've heard of whitetails in the Cloudcroft area and have seen a couple of actual pics of whitetail kills from NM near the Tx border but have never heard of them being in the Bosque. If there were as many as you claim I think it would be very well known. Do you have any pics of any whitetails in that area?
As far as whitetails taking over. I don't think that would be a good idea at all. Mulies just can't compete with elk, habitat encroachment and drought. Now they have to deal with a more aggressive deer species. Not good.
If this is indeed happening NMG&F should let hunters with valid mule deer tags in in known whitetail areas kill whitetails and have them checked in to keep track and not let the whitetail kill effect the validity of the mule deer license.
>a years now and have
>never seen a north American
>white tail there . I've
>seen couse deer,but no north
>American. The Bosque river bed
>of the Rio Grande is
> loaded with them from
>socorro all the way north
>of bernalillo .. actually saw
>our first one in the
>sandias last January.
I've heard of whitetails in the Cloudcroft area and have seen a couple of actual pics of whitetail kills from NM near the Tx border but have never heard of them being in the Bosque. If there were as many as you claim I think it would be very well known. Do you have any pics of any whitetails in that area?
As far as whitetails taking over. I don't think that would be a good idea at all. Mulies just can't compete with elk, habitat encroachment and drought. Now they have to deal with a more aggressive deer species. Not good.
If this is indeed happening NMG&F should let hunters with valid mule deer tags in in known whitetail areas kill whitetails and have them checked in to keep track and not let the whitetail kill effect the validity of the mule deer license.
swampokie
Active Member
- Messages
- 396
LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-18 AT 04:04PM (MST)[p]Better eating deer so whats the problem? Ive hunted ne nm quite a bit and saw the whitetails there. No way those stunted little halfracks are going to take over! Just kidding. Not sure they can be stopped in the river bottoms and riparian habitat but as a rule the west will stop them when they reach it. Until then use that FAD tag on em and obliterate em! Did I mention they r tasty critters???
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