NO MORE A-PLUS

NMBOWHNTR27

NMBOWHNTR27

Active Member
Messages
336
LAST EDITED ON May-22-18 AT 03:58PM (MST)[p]Well like I thought was going to happen A-plus is totally gone and was voted against. Now pronghorn will be managed like mule deer are on private land and the only way the public can hunt the private is with permission, which will be hard key ever without a price. The public will only be able to hunt public land that is OPEN on an individual GMU. There will be no longer units lump together for the most part. All hunts will be conducted all month in August, which no more Rut hunts will take place. I was kinda against this and I still am, so hopefully it proves me wrong and turns out to be better.

E-plus will be next you can bet on that I think.
 
>LAST EDITED ON May-22-18
>AT 03:58?PM (MST)
>
>Well like I thought was going
>to happen A-plus is totally
>gone and was voted against.
> Now pronghorn will be
>managed like mule deer are
>on private land and the
>only way the public can
>hunt the private is with
>permission, which will be hard
>key ever without a price.
> The public will only
>be able to hunt public
>land that is OPEN on
>an individual GMU. There will
>be no longer units lump
>together for the most part.
>All hunts will be conducted
>all month in August, which
>no more Rut hunts will
>take place. I was
>kinda against this and I
>still am, so hopefully it
>proves me wrong and turns
>out to be better.
>
> E-plus will be next you
>can bet on that I
>think.


I wonder if the private land tags being sold now will have to be hunted in conjunction with the public land hunt like mule deer as far as time frame.? I don't think that E- plus going anywhere Geno. If it did my feelings would not be hurt. I think the ranchers would be a little upset about it but not me.
 
Yes the private land antelope hunts are supposed to be hunted at the same time as the public hunts at least that's how I understood it.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-23-18 AT 11:19PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON May-23-18 AT 11:14?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON May-23-18 AT 09:53?PM (MST)

>>LAST EDITED ON May-22-18
>>AT 03:58?PM (MST)
>>
>>Well like I thought was going
>>to happen A-plus is totally
>>gone and was voted against.
>> Now pronghorn will be
>>managed like mule deer are
>>on private land and the
>>only way the public can
>>hunt the private is with
>>permission, which will be hard
>>key ever without a price.
>> The public will only
>>be able to hunt public
>>land that is OPEN on
>>an individual GMU. There will
>>be no longer units lump
>>together for the most part.
>>All hunts will be conducted
>>all month in August, which
>>no more Rut hunts will
>>take place. I was
>>kinda against this and I
>>still am, so hopefully it
>>proves me wrong and turns
>>out to be better.
>>
>> E-plus will be next you
>>can bet on that I
>>think.
>
>
>I wonder if the private land
>tags being sold now will
>have to be hunted in
>conjunction with the public land
>hunt like mule deer as
>far as time frame.? I
>don't think that E- plus
>going anywhere Geno. If it
>did my feelings would not
>be hurt. I think the
>ranchers would be a little
>upset about it but not
>me.

Yes they are supposed to be ran the same as mule deer. Let's hope that it's not abused like the mule deer. Oh NMWF AND Backcountry hunters and anglers (who are basically ran by, NM chapter anyway by X-NMWF members seems like) will push for to do away or something with e-plus as well, I would bet on it. The only thing I think might be a good thing with e-plus is doing away with unit wide tags. Other than that the way I've hear back country hunters and anglers (or people from wildlife federation??) is a bad idea.
 
I'm not too sure how I feel about this. I have never gotten an antelope tag, but when I do I want to have a good experience. As a new hunter the rules seem to me to be stacked in favor of the land owner. Has it always been this way? If the antelope are a public asset owned by everyone why do the landowners get exclusive access. Seems messed up to me. Land owners should have to draw a tag like everyone else right?

We need a revolution!!! Down with the landowners!!! Talk about welfare takers. Landowners get the tags for essentially free and we miss out on the opportunity??? WFT?? These same landowners cry and whine about welfare moms, but are the first in line to get subsidized federal agricultural bank loans??? Hypocrites. I leaned about this on Reddit.
 
Just know they just screwed the average hunter and we will never get it back. This is a raw deal that will devastate our herds.
 
IMO this was a very bad move for public land hunters who want/love too, wish too hunt antelope with a rifle.LO now have 100% control of antelope herds within their property.The LO owns the dirt, the land and any livestock bought or bred on their property, but NOT the game animals.So how can they now control the hunting of the game animals? Beef ranchers do not care much for antelope as it is nor do they much like people having access(public land assigned hunters) on their ranches, so what do you think those ranchers have planned for antelope management? Take a look at units 40-41-42 & 56,57,&58, extremely solid antelope lands , 85% privately owned and waht is public will be land locked.We saw the the Land office is not in any favor of public land hunters! Wednesdays vote by the game commission really hurt NM public rifle antelope hunters.
 
Looks like my dream of an NM antelope tag has just about evaporated. Only way to get tag is buy landowners tag.☹️ I can't afford that. Back to Wy I guess.
 
Good bye big antelope in NM. Ranchers are going to clean house. Like a rancher that I know said "we are going mow them down" with this open book policy. Ranchers are in the business to raise beef not grass eating antelope. In Northern NM they call antelope Prairie Maggots.

Look at how well it works for Barbary Sheep. The best Barbary Sheep Public land is behind a locked gate. Guess who controls how many are harvested and they can even set the price.


Affects of harvesting too many antelope will be seen way into the future.


Very bad move. I even called a Commissioner and went to a meeting only to find out that the meeting was over before I got there. He told me and a bunch of buddies to show up at a certain time and it was over. It was set in motion before they even wanted public input.
 
I went to a public comment meeting and ever person there was against the move. You can see how big of a difference that made. Don't even know why the ask for comment.
 
Idk how many times we've all said our piece, or replied to emails concerning issues of this nature just to be overthrown. It's disheartening. Example that comes to mind is the 3 season archery hunts in the Gila. Took some very determined people to help establish that and before it went back to two seasons I remember the department asking for input online and at meetings and that got changed fatster then you you can wave bye!
 
LAST EDITED ON May-25-18 AT 08:30AM (MST)[p]Not one single person showed up in favor of this new rule, EVERYBODY, even outfitters were against this and the Commission voted "unanimously" in favor of the change.The game commission is appointed by the Governor whom represents us the people and the BEST INTEREST of the land and animals of the state, and I am just blown away at how the public land hunters voice meant nothing, the only commissioner that really cared about public hunters was Comm Espinoza who is no longer on the board.The Land Office got a new Commissioner a few years back , Aubrey Dunn and he screwed over the public land access to so many areas to be locked up by his buddies and now this game commission just hands over the keys to Game Management of antelope to the land owners! Holy crap how does this make ANY sense????The above post about barbary sheep is on the spot accurate, and they are trying to lock up even more public road access in unit 32....
 
The meeting I went to was about 1/2 in favor and half against. Funny the meeting I was at most of the LO did not like the new system. I do think your right the G&F department doesn't listen to the hunters, but hunters never show up to the meetings I go to. The most I have seen is about 10-15 people so........
 
NM Wildlife Federation was in favor, Backcountry Hunters & Anglers was in favor, Vermajo Park Ranch was in favor. Only organization that wasn't in favor with Cattle Growers Assoc from what I heard.
 
As with everything you need to look at the good and bad. Do I think the new system is good? Not really, but it is what it is. Do I think every rancher in the NE is going to wipe out antelope herds on their property? Hell No! Most of the ranchers I know will continue to manage "their" herds the way they currently do, quality animals are worth more money to them, and those ranches that manage as such are usually larger and have more animals. If the guy with 5K acres wants to let every swinging ##### on his place to kill antelope, that will effect his herd, but not the entire NE. I think that kind of rancher will be in the minority. What about the public land that will become available for hunters that wasn't before? Mainly south of I-40, think of all of the thousands of acres of public land that just opened up that you couldn't hunt before, because you were stuck on some shitty ranch, how was that fair? You can still access a lot of that public within private borders, just like you can when you sheep hunt. Are we crying because you cant shoot your antelope from the window of your truck anymore? If you don't want to corner jump for access then don't put in for that unit, its as simple as that. Why is no one bitching about the E-Plus system???? That's the one that needs fixing. Unit wide tags need to be a thing of the past. Why not manage elk the same as antelope and deer on private land. If ranchers want their land to be private property then it should be just that, ranch only! Why should a guy get to sell an elk tag for 10K lol, if he doesn't even have elk on his 50 acres. Reward the ranchers that hunt their property, not ours.
 
>LAST EDITED ON May-25-18
>AT 08:30?AM (MST)
>
>Not one single person showed up
>in favor of this new
>rule, EVERYBODY, even outfitters were
>against this and the Commission
>voted "unanimously" in favor of
>the change.The game commission is
>appointed by the Governor whom
>represents us the people and
>the BEST INTEREST of the
>land and animals of the
>state, and I am just
>blown away at how the
>public land hunters voice meant
>nothing, the only commissioner that
>really cared about public hunters
>was Comm Espinoza who is
>no longer on the
>board.The Land Office got a
>new Commissioner a few years
>back , Aubrey Dunn
>and he screwed over the
>public land access to so
>many areas to be locked
>up by his buddies and
>now this game commission just
>hands over the keys to
>Game Management of antelope to
>the land owners! Holy crap
>how does this make ANY
>sense????The above post about barbary
>sheep is on the spot
>accurate, and they are trying
>to lock up even more
>public road access in unit
>32....

I know for a fact that Former Commissioner Espinoza would have voted against this. Not that it would've mattered, he would've still been out numbered. Sad day for NM public land hunters when he was taken off the Game Commission. Do you happen to know Rio, the details of why they took him off the commission?
 
I do not know, it was done so in a closed session with no details released.
passthrough you bring up a good point in the ability to now hunt the public portions of the units, but then I would argue the small amount of public land and after the morning hunts the antelope will be on private.
 
Feels like walls are getting closer in a lot of areas when it comes to wildlife conservation and hunting rights. We can shout as loud as we want and the subject will still fall on deaf ears.
 
I'm glad I finally drew rifle antelope this year I guess. Mega drought and aplus gone makes me less than optimistic. Looks like the herd will be gone in a few years. Rancher I'm assigned to said they screamed like hell in opposition but it fell on deaf ears. He said be glad u got one last chance to hunt em because they will soon be gone.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-28-18 AT 09:48AM (MST)[p]Well I am hopefull this is the first step and fixing the problem we have in NM.

It may be a bit dramatic but having a few crazy ranchers killing some antelope could be the first step at ending Jennings.

Afterwards the problem might be a little more manageable.
 
>>LAST EDITED ON May-25-18
>>AT 08:30?AM (MST)
>>
>>Not one single person showed up
>>in favor of this new
>>rule, EVERYBODY, even outfitters were
>>against this and the Commission
>>voted "unanimously" in favor of
>>the change.The game commission is
>>appointed by the Governor whom
>>represents us the people and
>>the BEST INTEREST of the
>>land and animals of the
>>state, and I am just
>>blown away at how the
>>public land hunters voice meant
>>nothing, the only commissioner that
>>really cared about public hunters
>>was Comm Espinoza who is
>>no longer on the
>>board.The Land Office got a
>>new Commissioner a few years
>>back , Aubrey Dunn
>>and he screwed over the
>>public land access to so
>>many areas to be locked
>>up by his buddies and
>>now this game commission just
>>hands over the keys to
>>Game Management of antelope to
>>the land owners! Holy crap
>>how does this make ANY
>>sense????The above post about barbary
>>sheep is on the spot
>>accurate, and they are trying
>>to lock up even more
>>public road access in unit
>>32....
>
>I know for a fact that
>Former Commissioner Espinoza would have
>voted against this. Not that
>it would've mattered, he would've
>still been out numbered. Sad
>day for NM public land
>hunters when he was taken
>off the Game Commission. Do
>you happen to know Rio,
>the details of why they
>took him off the commission?
>
How about Ralph Ramos? I don't think he would?ve either if he is still on the commission.
 
>As with everything you need to
>look at the good and
>bad. Do I think
>the new system is good?
> Not really, but it
>is what it is.
>Do I think every rancher
>in the NE is going
>to wipe out antelope herds
>on their property? Hell
>No! Most of the
>ranchers I know will continue
>to manage "their" herds the
>way they currently do, quality
>animals are worth more money
>to them, and those ranches
>that manage as such are
>usually larger and have more
>animals. If the guy
>with 5K acres wants to
>let every swinging ##### on
>his place to kill antelope,
>that will effect his herd,
>but not the entire NE.
> I think that kind
>of rancher will be in
>the minority. What about
>the public land that will
>become available for hunters that
>wasn't before? Mainly south
>of I-40, think of all
>of the thousands of acres
>of public land that just
>opened up that you couldn't
>hunt before, because you were
>stuck on some shitty ranch,
>how was that fair?
>You can still access a
>lot of that public within
>private borders, just like you
>can when you sheep hunt.
> Are we crying because
>you cant shoot your antelope
>from the window of your
>truck anymore? If you
>don't want to corner jump
>for access then don't put
>in for that unit, its
>as simple as that.
>Why is no one bitching
>about the E-Plus system????
>That's the one that needs
>fixing. Unit wide tags
>need to be a thing
>of the past. Why
>not manage elk the same
>as antelope and deer on
>private land. If ranchers
>want their land to be
>private property then it should
>be just that, ranch only!
> Why should a guy
>get to sell an elk
>tag for 10K lol, if
>he doesn't even have elk
>on his 50 acres.
>Reward the ranchers that hunt
>their property, not ours.

I could do away with unit wide tags and throw those back into the draw sure, but not some of the other things I've heard.
 
Not sure on the good/bad of this yet, but having my 4th rifle tag in 12 years, there will be plenty of public land to hunt in the units I have drawn. Each time the "ranxh" was actually only 10-20% private.
 
E-Plus anyone? Or are we ok with that corrupt system because we can get unit wide tags and hunt elk when we don't draw, and hunt on public land with a private land tag. Rio, how about the egregious abuse of the "private land only" deer tags. Why wont the G&F do anything about that? Is it because they rely on the revenue? Why turn a blind eye to that? Go on the "youth" hunt in 45, a handful of draw tags but everyone within 100 miles and 2.5 acres, hunt the public with their 6 year old asleep in the back seat. Why pick and choose policy by species? Whats good for elk is good for mule deer and so on. Or is it because the system is good for select groups, like land owners and outfitters? Unit wide elk tags across the state are way over priced, as stomper eluded to in a previous post. How much would some of those private land tags be worth if you could only hunt the private? Not much. All land owner tags should be ranch only. If you never have an elk on YOUR land why should you get one of our tags? How many of those tags would make it back into the draw?
 
New Mexico E-PLUS is a joke!!!! Our draw system is far superior to any other. Ranchers pocketing money hand over fist and a majority of the hunting taking place on government lands that are not accessible due to them being land locked IS A JOKE! Especially when in all my experiences the g&f are compelled to do absolutely nothing to make sure that ranchers and they're customers are staying within the law . Conveniently when the shoes on the public hunters foot ,the book is thrown at them. I've heard all arguments about their land providing crucial habitat for elk which in a majority of units that's a crock. National Forest and wilderness are where the majority of habitat is ,rivers creeks , grass filled river bottoms when drout condition is here. I own 4,000+ acres that have been in the family for years and from a lo perspective still feel it's a scam. It will never happen but the lo tags need to be stripped killing the cash cow.

I posted this on another thread
 
Posted by BUGLEnmIN on May-29-18 at 02:59 PM
New Mexico E-PLUS is a joke!!!! Our draw system is far superior to any other. Ranchers pocketing money hand over fist and a majority of the hunting taking place on government lands that are not accessible due to them being land locked IS A JOKE! Especially when in all my experiences the g&f are compelled to do absolutely nothing to make sure that ranchers and they're customers are staying within the law . Conveniently when the shoes on the public hunters foot ,the book is thrown at them. I've heard all arguments about their land providing crucial habitat for elk which in a majority of units that's a crock. National Forest and wilderness are where the majority of habitat is ,rivers creeks , grass filled river bottoms when drout condition is here. I own 4,000+ acres that have been in the family for years and from a lo perspective still feel it's a scam. It will never happen but the lo tags need to be stripped killing the cash cow.



The ranches that have Elk and habitat are always ranch only, they don't want the public hunting their land or their Elk... if you get unit wide tags you have to let the public hunt your land. Unit Wide is the SCAM... it allows you to hunt 30,40,50 miles from the ranch. I don't know what the solution is but something needs to change. And these small ranches (5 acres) getting a UW tag is ridiculous. I own 6 acres but have never tried to get a UW tag... I just might try because I can't seem to draw anymore.
Jack
 
passthrough Im in 100% agreement with you! This thread was about A-plus, that is what I responded too.BUT, why do you not show up to commission meetings, sign in and present this to the commission? The eplus program has grown , everybody with 2 acres is now a rancher and has too many elk , and the deer land owner tags , don't get me started .We do not have enough game wardens to patrol the entire state so the private land deer tags is IMO extremely abused!The e-plus unit wide is crap too, I bought a cow tag in 2013 for unit 51, 1800 acres and the guy I bought from said he didn't want anyone on his property and there was plenty of elk else where.Believe me , I know there is alot of shady stuff with ANY Landowner tag....
 
Rio, much respect man, but commission meetings are a waste of time. Like I stated above, always land on def ears. Every time we have a conflicting opinion they could care less , their minds are made up before the meeting even starts.
 
I disagree , I think if many concerned outdoors man and women showed up and voiced concerns, the commission would have to pay attention.Write the Governors office, not just once but often and by many people .Those elected officials work for us! Thats what EPLUS UNIT WIDE landowners are banking on, that not many concerned will show up and thats what happens.The PRO WOLF community shows up strong when ever the wolves are on the agenda,I wish NM hunters would too. Social media and websites such as this is easy to vent and voice opinions but the commissioners and the Governor they don't come on here. Those meetings are where your voice can be heard.And I do agree at times its falling upon deaf ears, but again if many would show up then maybe the commission would pay some attention.Many people show up and address the commission in a aggressive emotional attitude, much of the wolf groups do, but there is alway some that are very respectful and bring concerns.Last year the people from Tierra Amarilla, Los Ojos, Chama Valley showed up in favor of keeping Burns Lake open and a functioning fishery and the feelings were the Lake would be closed down and done away with.The Commission heard every person, and had discussion and then voted right there to keep the Lake and turn it over to the community to over see the functions.I share this just as an example that the commission does listen and isn't always set on one agenda direction...
 
>Rio, much respect man, but commission
>meetings are a waste of
>time. Like I stated above,
>always land on def ears.
>Every time we have a
>conflicting opinion they could care
>less , their minds are
>made up before the meeting
>even starts.


I don't think the commission meetings are a waste at all. The problem is hunters and hunters alike don't show up. Myself at times included. I know it's hard when meetings are during the week And during times when people are at work sometimes.
 
Geno, for once we'll have to agree to disagree! Just an example ,the Gila three hunt archery system was proposed and fought for , when the proposal came through to change it back to two hunt system there were very respected men in the hunting community who helped get the three hunt system in the first place who were basically dismissed at the meeting. So many of us wrote e- mails,made phone calls ,and all for the nothing. The committee knew what the outcome was to be long before it happened.
 
GO to the commission meetings etc etc.

You live in Silver City NM, and you work 9-5 for the water company. Are you going to drive to Raton, NM on a tues? You have 2 weeks vacation, and one is for Disney Land. Are you really going to do that?

Those Cowboys are going to be there! They have a vested interest.

It is called $$$$$$!

Ya, some public hunter is going to do that,,,, so thankful he drew a third choice deer tag!

The NM elk system,, just mirrors everything else in this state! The cowboys love the REB, but we need welfare!
 
This is disappointing. I've been applying in NM since the early 90's and every rule change since then has diminished opportunity for the common man. All guide & LO tilted now
 

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