Well boys I know it's a little early for this, but I haven't hunted deer in sometime due to focusing the majority of my attention to Elk and Barbs, and am looking to put in for it this year, but looking for big buck units regardless of draw odds. When I was younger my father and I would hunt 51 and have shot some decent deer in that unit but looking to see where the big boys really hang. Looked at state records and 8 out of 10 were taken out of Rio Arriba County.
Best Mule Deer Unit
- Thread starter Mike0426
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roadrunner
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Rio Arriba private land in Unit 4...
roadrunner
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And way too many does.
cosmic_cowboy
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Hands down gota be unit 3.... get yer wallet out.
Jack
Jack
BluffGruff
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Jicarilla... Best place for monster, if you can afford it. Otherwise, go scout winter range yourself. I killed a nice one last year in a unit with 100% odds.
Bolt Tripper
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Colorado
smarba
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I personally don't believe there are too many does.
It's not like the deer are eating all of the food and denuding the landscape. It's that too many bucks are killed by too many tags so consequently majority of deer seen are does.
I had a friend tell me similar "on recent deer hunt all we saw were does...they should have a doe season."
IMO with a doe season, then the does would be slaughtered and we'd see no deer.
It's not like the deer are eating all of the food and denuding the landscape. It's that too many bucks are killed by too many tags so consequently majority of deer seen are does.
I had a friend tell me similar "on recent deer hunt all we saw were does...they should have a doe season."
IMO with a doe season, then the does would be slaughtered and we'd see no deer.
roadrunner
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LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-18 AT 02:38PM (MST)[p]Disagree because other states allow for the taking of does. You have to manage it properly, that's all, just like bucks...
I get it though with what you're saying about reducing buck tags. Just finished up a late season deer hunt where the buck to doe ratio is 1:4. Very, very limited number of deer tags in that unit to start with.
I get it though with what you're saying about reducing buck tags. Just finished up a late season deer hunt where the buck to doe ratio is 1:4. Very, very limited number of deer tags in that unit to start with.
smarba
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Just because other states allow doe hunting doesn't mean we should. Other states allow things like one deer per day for the entire year or 1 buck and 6 does.
AZ doesn't have any doe hunts and they are probably the most similar habitat to NM. They have quality deer & buck numbers. Whatever they are doing is probably what we should be doing.
AZ doesn't have any doe hunts and they are probably the most similar habitat to NM. They have quality deer & buck numbers. Whatever they are doing is probably what we should be doing.
cosmic_cowboy
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I also disagree on Doe tags, if you think by killing more does you get more Bucks it simply won't work in NM. The main reason (at least up north) there are so few mature bucks is cruising the back roads of the winter range in Dec. and Jan. drinking Bud Light.
Simply a FACT. Sad but true. And I don't know how it can be stopped.
Jack
Simply a FACT. Sad but true. And I don't know how it can be stopped.
Jack
roadrunner
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Gentlemen, we're not talking about whitetail. Southern CO has some doe tags, UT has some as well.
You can offer a few, for selct hunts, and select seasons. NM has done it before, I had one many, many years ago.
There is nothing wrong with allowing youth 2B tag holders the opportunity to shoot a doe if they choose. You will not wipe out the deer population because some dads and uncles flat out won't let a kid shoot a doe.
What I think we can agree on is there are too many tags. But then again, I think I saw more deer (bucks) as a kid with OTC hunting than now.
So what changed?
You can offer a few, for selct hunts, and select seasons. NM has done it before, I had one many, many years ago.
There is nothing wrong with allowing youth 2B tag holders the opportunity to shoot a doe if they choose. You will not wipe out the deer population because some dads and uncles flat out won't let a kid shoot a doe.
What I think we can agree on is there are too many tags. But then again, I think I saw more deer (bucks) as a kid with OTC hunting than now.
So what changed?
LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-18 AT 08:43PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-18 AT 08:41?PM (MST)
>
I think I saw
>more deer (bucks) as a
>kid with OTC hunting than
>now.
>
>So what changed?
Now that's a good thought. Drought for 1, elk are out completing deer, lots of predators all have been hard on our deer. Hunting does won't fix any of that. Who wants to shoot an ugly ol doe anyways.
I for one am not in favor of cutting tags I would rather go hunting that not draw because tags were cut. I have also found you can kill mature deer but dam you have to work for it in the easier to draw units.
Best units in NM for big deer are the northern units, and eastern plains
>
I think I saw
>more deer (bucks) as a
>kid with OTC hunting than
>now.
>
>So what changed?
Now that's a good thought. Drought for 1, elk are out completing deer, lots of predators all have been hard on our deer. Hunting does won't fix any of that. Who wants to shoot an ugly ol doe anyways.
I for one am not in favor of cutting tags I would rather go hunting that not draw because tags were cut. I have also found you can kill mature deer but dam you have to work for it in the easier to draw units.
Best units in NM for big deer are the northern units, and eastern plains
OCHO
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LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-18 AT 09:49PM (MST)[p]Here?s small issue with NM large amount of deer tags and small amount of deer. Most people love to hunt and look forward to it.
Majority of hunters will spend maybe 3 days of 5 day hunt. Of that 3 days in NM you may see 1 nice buck and probably far or on private and 2 or 3 fork or tiny 5 points. Well you spent all this money to come out and hunt and after all, what's the favorite line I just want to feel the freezer and bang 90 % of 2 and 3 year old die before half of machurity.
Even if you hunt your nads off you'd be hard pressed to find more than 2 shooters on 5 - 8 days hunting and honestly more luck than skill in most cases.
The idea of opportunity hunts still dumb founds me to the point I'm cross eyed. But will it change? Absolutely not. We had better years with OTC tags. Why because of deer weren't were you were at you went home or went elsewhere. Self management. Now your stuck and that means take what you can get.
If the deer were a concern tag fees would go up and some efforts to restore mule deer populations would be in affect. They aren't. Seen 100?s of RMEF drinkers... how Mule Deer Foundation? Zip
Deers cheapest tag in the state and lowest population and lowest quality hunt. Coincidence? I'd think not. Big Horn lowest population highest tag cost and money draw. Catch the pattern.
Just My Opinion.
Majority of hunters will spend maybe 3 days of 5 day hunt. Of that 3 days in NM you may see 1 nice buck and probably far or on private and 2 or 3 fork or tiny 5 points. Well you spent all this money to come out and hunt and after all, what's the favorite line I just want to feel the freezer and bang 90 % of 2 and 3 year old die before half of machurity.
Even if you hunt your nads off you'd be hard pressed to find more than 2 shooters on 5 - 8 days hunting and honestly more luck than skill in most cases.
The idea of opportunity hunts still dumb founds me to the point I'm cross eyed. But will it change? Absolutely not. We had better years with OTC tags. Why because of deer weren't were you were at you went home or went elsewhere. Self management. Now your stuck and that means take what you can get.
If the deer were a concern tag fees would go up and some efforts to restore mule deer populations would be in affect. They aren't. Seen 100?s of RMEF drinkers... how Mule Deer Foundation? Zip
Deers cheapest tag in the state and lowest population and lowest quality hunt. Coincidence? I'd think not. Big Horn lowest population highest tag cost and money draw. Catch the pattern.
Just My Opinion.
crazeymaez
Very Active Member
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>Gentlemen, we're not talking about whitetail.
> Southern CO has some
>doe tags, UT has some
>as well.
>
>You can offer a few, for
>selct hunts, and select seasons.
> NM has done it
>before, I had one many,
>many years ago.
>
>There is nothing wrong with allowing
>youth 2B tag holders the
>opportunity to shoot a doe
>if they choose. You
>will not wipe out the
>deer population because some dads
>and uncles flat out won't
>let a kid shoot a
>doe.
>
>What I think we can agree
>on is there are too
>many tags. But then
>again, I think I saw
>more deer (bucks) as a
>kid with OTC hunting than
>now.
>
>So what changed?
Bows shoot 100 yrds,Muzzies shoot 500,rifles shoot over a 1000.Trail cameras.better clothing,boots help you stay out longer.rangefinders.cell phones.the list goes on and on hunters have evolved,The animal hasn't.
Better glass.
> Southern CO has some
>doe tags, UT has some
>as well.
>
>You can offer a few, for
>selct hunts, and select seasons.
> NM has done it
>before, I had one many,
>many years ago.
>
>There is nothing wrong with allowing
>youth 2B tag holders the
>opportunity to shoot a doe
>if they choose. You
>will not wipe out the
>deer population because some dads
>and uncles flat out won't
>let a kid shoot a
>doe.
>
>What I think we can agree
>on is there are too
>many tags. But then
>again, I think I saw
>more deer (bucks) as a
>kid with OTC hunting than
>now.
>
>So what changed?
Bows shoot 100 yrds,Muzzies shoot 500,rifles shoot over a 1000.Trail cameras.better clothing,boots help you stay out longer.rangefinders.cell phones.the list goes on and on hunters have evolved,The animal hasn't.
Better glass.
roadrunner
Long Time Member
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LAST EDITED ON Nov-29-18 AT 08:29AM (MST)[p]You want more bucks, you have to shoot less initially, no other way.
You want to keep hunting going, better keep kids interested in it, not a bunch of old guys interested in ego and bragging rights.
You'd be surprised at who would be willing to shoot and "ugly old doe"...
You want to keep hunting going, better keep kids interested in it, not a bunch of old guys interested in ego and bragging rights.
You'd be surprised at who would be willing to shoot and "ugly old doe"...
roadrunner
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LAST EDITED ON Nov-29-18 AT 08:26AM (MST)[p]Double post
TineMaster
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The mule deer problem in NM is no joke!
First off to begin my rant I will start off with the number of tags issued.
I don't understand how the biologists at the G&F keep issuing out the number of tags that they do every year where the deer in these units (Mostly up north) are on their last legs! Ive hunted most of these units Im talking about and have seen it first hand they are not what they use to be. REDUCE THE NUMBER OF BUCK TAGS!
The poaching up north is also a huge factor in the number of bucks. I cant begin to tell you guys how much guys get away with poaching these days. Especially deer from here to Jan. Its simple... a few buddies go out with a few brews and to kill a mature buck this time of year is not hard. Theyre not an elk so their quick to load and theyre not an antelope where everyone can see what youre doing out in the flats. The majority of some of these repeat offenders up here will be hauling a lot more than just a Christmas tree out of the hills this time of year.
Predator control will also play a factor... Ive known places to almost be completely wiped out from mountain lions and once you kill a couple cats you see the deer numbers rebound. Coyotes, not a lot of people believe, kill deer! And im not just talking about fawns! A pack of just 3-4 mature dogs will kill a mature buck!
Possibly re-implement the 3pt rule. You guys remember when NM had that rule? I tell you what... a lot more bucks would be here today if everyone in NM would stop smoking all the forkies. We don't even give these bucks a chance to breed... no wonder why theres no bucks???
First off to begin my rant I will start off with the number of tags issued.
I don't understand how the biologists at the G&F keep issuing out the number of tags that they do every year where the deer in these units (Mostly up north) are on their last legs! Ive hunted most of these units Im talking about and have seen it first hand they are not what they use to be. REDUCE THE NUMBER OF BUCK TAGS!
The poaching up north is also a huge factor in the number of bucks. I cant begin to tell you guys how much guys get away with poaching these days. Especially deer from here to Jan. Its simple... a few buddies go out with a few brews and to kill a mature buck this time of year is not hard. Theyre not an elk so their quick to load and theyre not an antelope where everyone can see what youre doing out in the flats. The majority of some of these repeat offenders up here will be hauling a lot more than just a Christmas tree out of the hills this time of year.
Predator control will also play a factor... Ive known places to almost be completely wiped out from mountain lions and once you kill a couple cats you see the deer numbers rebound. Coyotes, not a lot of people believe, kill deer! And im not just talking about fawns! A pack of just 3-4 mature dogs will kill a mature buck!
Possibly re-implement the 3pt rule. You guys remember when NM had that rule? I tell you what... a lot more bucks would be here today if everyone in NM would stop smoking all the forkies. We don't even give these bucks a chance to breed... no wonder why theres no bucks???
roadrunner
Long Time Member
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Predator control- could not agree more.
Reduce buck tags in certain units - could not agree more.
Implement a 3pt or better rule in certain units (or hunts) - could not agree more.
Want keep some poaching down? How about offering a late season OIL type hunt with very limited permits to run through Dec?
If a low life knows people are looking for the next state record, they may be less inclined to poach. And, it might draw a certain number of apps away from other hunts when the tags are cut allowing draw odds to effectivly be the same instead of worse...
Reduce buck tags in certain units - could not agree more.
Implement a 3pt or better rule in certain units (or hunts) - could not agree more.
Want keep some poaching down? How about offering a late season OIL type hunt with very limited permits to run through Dec?
If a low life knows people are looking for the next state record, they may be less inclined to poach. And, it might draw a certain number of apps away from other hunts when the tags are cut allowing draw odds to effectivly be the same instead of worse...
cosmic_cowboy
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The poaching up north is also a huge factor in the number of bucks. I cant begin to tell you guys how much guys get away with poaching these days. Especially deer from here to Jan. Its simple... a few buddies go out with a few brews and to kill a mature buck this time of year is not hard. Theyre not an elk so their quick to load and theyre not an antelope where everyone can see what youre doing out in the flats. The majority of some of these repeat offenders up here will be hauling a lot more than just a Christmas tree out of the hills this time of year.
You hit the nail on the head.
This is passed from generation to generation and is excepted behavior.
I could site many instances but won't here, everyone knows it happens.
Example.... drive from Questa to Red River.... Big Horn Rams standing next to the road no one would dare shoot one but if a mature Buck was standing beside the road he wouldn't last 10 minutes. Wish there was a way to stop this but it will never stop until there are no Bucks left.
You hit the nail on the head.
This is passed from generation to generation and is excepted behavior.
I could site many instances but won't here, everyone knows it happens.
Example.... drive from Questa to Red River.... Big Horn Rams standing next to the road no one would dare shoot one but if a mature Buck was standing beside the road he wouldn't last 10 minutes. Wish there was a way to stop this but it will never stop until there are no Bucks left.
cbat
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I talked to Tom Watts the biologist on the Jicarilla one time and asked him how do you grow big deer ? He said simple. We kill coyotes. He had cases and cases of different ammo stacked up in the corner that was free for the taking if you killed coyotes with it. Plus they paid a bounty on them and other predators. We have to get away from the PC crap and start doing things that might hurt their little feelers. One other gripe if you aren't out killing coyotes whenever you have a chance don't gripe about the deer hunting declining.
I agree that all of the factors mentioned are contributing, but What about quality habitat? Good nutritious browse is also key. The rank over mature browse we see especially in winter range is not helping. Ever see Juniper browse lines at about five feet. Juniper sucks as feed so why are they eating it? Because there is not enough feed of higher quality. There is a reason deer and elk gravitate towards recent fires?rejuvenation! Fresh abundant high quality feed. Would you rather eat steak and ice cream or cardboard and turpentine?
AND whack a cougar and save 52 deer a year. Just saying!
AND whack a cougar and save 52 deer a year. Just saying!
4corners_sportsman
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Apply for unit 2c. Horrible draw odds but there are lots of bucks in that unit with pretty decent genetics. Seems like most of the bucks in 2c are being fed to the mountain lions or dying of old age. Everywhere I've been in 2c has a decent buck hanging around.
bobby
Active Member
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>Apply for unit 2c. Horrible draw
>odds but there are lots
>of bucks in that unit
>with pretty decent genetics. Seems
>like most of the bucks
>in 2c are being fed
>to the mountain lions or
>dying of old age. Everywhere
>I've been in 2c has
>a decent buck hanging around.
>
The point being expressed exaclty on the thread!! 2c low tags numbers hard draw odds =more deeradn bigger deer. Poaching is a huge issue far more then we would like to believe its the hard ass chicanos that think they are cool and they go shoot as they dam well please , mi a Chicano myself but i have ethics you wont believe the ##### ive seen hunters doing in the field. We have hardly any game warden in the field either spread way to thin
>odds but there are lots
>of bucks in that unit
>with pretty decent genetics. Seems
>like most of the bucks
>in 2c are being fed
>to the mountain lions or
>dying of old age. Everywhere
>I've been in 2c has
>a decent buck hanging around.
>
The point being expressed exaclty on the thread!! 2c low tags numbers hard draw odds =more deeradn bigger deer. Poaching is a huge issue far more then we would like to believe its the hard ass chicanos that think they are cool and they go shoot as they dam well please , mi a Chicano myself but i have ethics you wont believe the ##### ive seen hunters doing in the field. We have hardly any game warden in the field either spread way to thin
Largebull
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I agree with less tags Stop poaching and more Predator hunts.Being from Az. when I would come over and hunt 23 , half the New Mexico hunter were riding around in there old pickup drinking bud light all day and you get to that point I'M sure they don't care what they shoot.We have 3 times as many people over here ,thus You would think more predator hunters But also better G&F I think.......BULL!
roadrunner
Long Time Member
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"I talked to Tom Watts the biologist on the Jicarilla one time and asked him how do you grow big deer ? He said simple. We kill coyotes."
Think they also stopped deer hunting for a handful of years to get numbers back up. Your reservation cow tag also allowed you to shoot coyotes while you were hunting without need for a reservation predator permit, so yeah, they kill coyotes and are not bashful about.
Need to ignore the stupid law about coyote contests...
Think they also stopped deer hunting for a handful of years to get numbers back up. Your reservation cow tag also allowed you to shoot coyotes while you were hunting without need for a reservation predator permit, so yeah, they kill coyotes and are not bashful about.
Need to ignore the stupid law about coyote contests...
I talked to Tom Watts the biologist on the Jicarilla one time and asked him how do you grow big deer ? He said simple. We kill coyotes. He had cases and cases of different ammo stacked up in the corner that was free for the taking if you killed coyotes with it. Plus they paid a bounty on them and other predators. We have to get away from the PC crap and start doing things that might hurt their little feelers. One other gripe if you aren't out killing coyotes whenever you have a chance don't gripe about the deer hunting declining.
I agree on killing coyotes and lions but the very first thing they did to grow big bucks on the Jicarilla was stopping the poaching.
I agree on killing coyotes and lions but the very first thing they did to grow big bucks on the Jicarilla was stopping the poaching.
GilaCoues1
Member
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This is not rocket science. This social management. Hunting/Killing bucks does nothing to increase nor decrease a deer population.
Habitat manipulation (on large scale such as 100,000 acres, etc.), pray for rain, and predator management (such as killing coyotes during fawning season) and (mt. lion harvest limits increased and harvest increased) will increase deer "populations". Buck hunting will not affect deer "populations" either way.
Yes, reducing poaching will help, so does reducing roadkill, oil and gas effects, etc.
Antler point restrictions do nothing. Quit beating this dead horse....
Hunting "FAD" in the state of NM does absolutely nothing for a deer population, it only affects the number of bucks on the landscape.
We get sidetracked, hardly anybody commented during the regulation cycle the past year for deer hunting. Nothing changed significantly.....
Habitat manipulation (on large scale such as 100,000 acres, etc.), pray for rain, and predator management (such as killing coyotes during fawning season) and (mt. lion harvest limits increased and harvest increased) will increase deer "populations". Buck hunting will not affect deer "populations" either way.
Yes, reducing poaching will help, so does reducing roadkill, oil and gas effects, etc.
Antler point restrictions do nothing. Quit beating this dead horse....
Hunting "FAD" in the state of NM does absolutely nothing for a deer population, it only affects the number of bucks on the landscape.
We get sidetracked, hardly anybody commented during the regulation cycle the past year for deer hunting. Nothing changed significantly.....
muleywhisperer
Active Member
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I guess everyone went off on a rant about poor management. 2-B and 2-C are great units and should have point restrictions to get maturity back. Genetically they produce giants but rarely get into that 5-6 year old range.
Sleeper units with lower success rates but hold monster bucks are units 53 and 16. These units have great genetics but not a ton of deer.
Unit 43 has a ton of private land which allows for some deer to get into that mythical 7-9 year old range. Hard hunting but produces big deer.
And finally 45 lots of wilderness, big country and plenty of big bucks. This is a great muzzle loader hunt but, you need to get as far from the roads as possible and be willing to hunt the thick stuff.
The listed units are where I would hunt solely with the hopes of a record book head.
Sleeper units with lower success rates but hold monster bucks are units 53 and 16. These units have great genetics but not a ton of deer.
Unit 43 has a ton of private land which allows for some deer to get into that mythical 7-9 year old range. Hard hunting but produces big deer.
And finally 45 lots of wilderness, big country and plenty of big bucks. This is a great muzzle loader hunt but, you need to get as far from the roads as possible and be willing to hunt the thick stuff.
The listed units are where I would hunt solely with the hopes of a record book head.
NM is an "opportunity" state and as long as we keep this management style we will never have a good deer population.
some units need to be shut down for a couple of years just like they did unit 9. now there are fewer tags in unit 9 and there are some really nice deer in there. of course unit 9 has also been over hunted for elk and the deer are not competing with the elk. Lets see what happens now that they cut the number of elk tags back in unit 9 to grow the herd again.
Unit 17 was once shut down for the same reason and now the deer look good. as long as they keep the tag numbers under control there will be big bucks to chases.
unit 21 is on the decline because of all the tags that are drawn.
we need to push g and f to set aside opportunity units for deer and elk and make them non-competing units. The units that have shown great genetics for Elk should be elk units managed for quality and opportunity units for deer.
great deer units should be managed for quality deer. an opportunity units for elk.
make the price structure so that if you want to hunt an opportunity unit you pay less if you want to pay for a quality unit and a chance to kill a mature buck or bull. you have to pay more, not just $50 more make a quality deer tag $200 for resident and $700 for NR. if you think NR wont pay for the chances at a great buck your crazy and lots of Residents will be willing to fork over the extra cash to hunt a giant deer. Hunters are waiting 20 years to hunt the AZ strip. opportunity areas should be $50 res & $200 for NR
Elk quality hunts should be $300 res and $1500 NR
opportunity elk $100 and $600
also I think we should have a rest year on units. put them all in a cycle that they have no tags drawn for one or two years.
I think this will allow animals to move into different areas of the units and help spread out the populations. allowing for a quality experience when it is open again.
MY 2
some units need to be shut down for a couple of years just like they did unit 9. now there are fewer tags in unit 9 and there are some really nice deer in there. of course unit 9 has also been over hunted for elk and the deer are not competing with the elk. Lets see what happens now that they cut the number of elk tags back in unit 9 to grow the herd again.
Unit 17 was once shut down for the same reason and now the deer look good. as long as they keep the tag numbers under control there will be big bucks to chases.
unit 21 is on the decline because of all the tags that are drawn.
we need to push g and f to set aside opportunity units for deer and elk and make them non-competing units. The units that have shown great genetics for Elk should be elk units managed for quality and opportunity units for deer.
great deer units should be managed for quality deer. an opportunity units for elk.
make the price structure so that if you want to hunt an opportunity unit you pay less if you want to pay for a quality unit and a chance to kill a mature buck or bull. you have to pay more, not just $50 more make a quality deer tag $200 for resident and $700 for NR. if you think NR wont pay for the chances at a great buck your crazy and lots of Residents will be willing to fork over the extra cash to hunt a giant deer. Hunters are waiting 20 years to hunt the AZ strip. opportunity areas should be $50 res & $200 for NR
Elk quality hunts should be $300 res and $1500 NR
opportunity elk $100 and $600
also I think we should have a rest year on units. put them all in a cycle that they have no tags drawn for one or two years.
I think this will allow animals to move into different areas of the units and help spread out the populations. allowing for a quality experience when it is open again.
MY 2
MQ1_4_LIFE
Member
- Messages
- 29
>This is not rocket science. This
>
>We get sidetracked, hardly anybody commented
>during the regulation cycle the
>past year for deer hunting.
> Nothing changed significantly.....
Ditto that. Kind of funny how everyone gets riled up after the fact. Rule was open, myself and many others took the opportunity to provide public comment. Screaming into the wind on a website does nothing to change rules, processes or procedures.
Also, big thanks to all of the folks in this thread that don't mind giving up sleeper units or gmus with trophy opportunity. Makes my google searches so much more productive.
(Use the private message feature unless you really don't care about your sleeper unit becoming impossible to draw)
>
>We get sidetracked, hardly anybody commented
>during the regulation cycle the
>past year for deer hunting.
> Nothing changed significantly.....
Ditto that. Kind of funny how everyone gets riled up after the fact. Rule was open, myself and many others took the opportunity to provide public comment. Screaming into the wind on a website does nothing to change rules, processes or procedures.
Also, big thanks to all of the folks in this thread that don't mind giving up sleeper units or gmus with trophy opportunity. Makes my google searches so much more productive.
(Use the private message feature unless you really don't care about your sleeper unit becoming impossible to draw)
GilaCoues1
Member
- Messages
- 37
I've said on here before a few times that killing only bucks will not affect a deer "population". I'm thinking we need to get some common ground before we continue these discussions. Buck only hunting will do nothing to affect a deer "population". Yes, it will affect the number of bucks in the "population". Buck to doe ratio will be affected as well. However, all of the literature I've read shows that buck to doe ratios have to be below 7-8 bucks to does before reproduction is affected. Meaning that a deer "population" is not affected by hunting bucks. Closing down units will do nothing for a "population", only the number of bucks on the landscape. Which is great hunting when it is closed for a few years then you open it up, but you've lost hunting for a few years. Therein lies the discussion, which is quality vs. opportunity. Most of the studies (or surveys), I've seen is that most hunters would like the opportunity to hunt vs. the number of quality bucks seen. All social management, no biology here. Do you want to hunt bigger/older bucks? That can be done, you just won't be able to hunt every year.
License fees are set by the Legislature, not Game and Fish. So, it is not as simple as saying, "change license fees". Or "combine Mt. Lion license with deer license".
License fees are set by the Legislature, not Game and Fish. So, it is not as simple as saying, "change license fees". Or "combine Mt. Lion license with deer license".
mossback50cal
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,243
LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-18 AT 09:48AM (MST)[p]I do not agree with raising prices. All that does is take the lower income people out. Some cannot afford steeper prices to hunt. Especially when we do not see where that revenue is going. How many habitat improvement projects have you seen? In all of the years I have hunted, I have seen less than a handful of wardens in the field. See them all the time at the local fishing ponds, but RARELY out checking hunters. When someone is seen doing something illegal(like offroad atv use), it takes days(if ever) to get a response. I say we need better habitat management, and better predator control. There are so many coyotes and cougars. When you see cougars close to city, that is a perfect point. Coyotes running through residential neighborhoods.... I can go on and on.
*We are all in the same boat, just
wishing to be hunting right now!*
*We are all in the same boat, just
wishing to be hunting right now!*
NMBOWHNTR27
Active Member
- Messages
- 336
ALMOST any unit could have a big deer in it. The units with poor draw odds is a good start or units that are big with less deer density you will then probably find a good buck. Until the deer biologist and the public decide to cut tags NM will never have the #?s of big bucks. As of right now the deer biologist likes to manage for more opportunity rather than a limit draw entry tags for bigger bucks. For example 2B is not even close to what it was there are far to many tags and this year they are going to increase the #?s a little more. Good luck in the draw!!
GilaCoues1
Member
- Messages
- 37
Exactly my point (I don't necessarily agree that it is the deer biologist decision, more in line with the overall G&F decision's, i wouldn't want to give him that much credit.......). What do hunters want? More and bigger bucks? Awesome, then reduce the number of buck tags. Simple as that.... Less opportunity to hunt overall.....
I've always advocated for hunting opportunity vs. quality because i like to hunt every year. That is the biggest question/answer nobody wants to tackle. Everybody wants to point fingers and say it is wrong. Yet, nobody wants to actually get down to business and talk about the answers. Which is better habitat and kill more predators (at the right time, during fawning seasons). Killing bucks (more or less) does nothing to affect a deer population. Oh and by the way, the "best mule deer unit" for quality is 2C because it is the most restrictive. That is for biggest bucks. If you want quality and ok draw odds, put in for the SE part of the state. Big bucks down there. Point is that game management is not rocket science. You want more and bigger bucks? Cut license numbers. That cuts into hunter opportunity.
I've always advocated for hunting opportunity vs. quality because i like to hunt every year. That is the biggest question/answer nobody wants to tackle. Everybody wants to point fingers and say it is wrong. Yet, nobody wants to actually get down to business and talk about the answers. Which is better habitat and kill more predators (at the right time, during fawning seasons). Killing bucks (more or less) does nothing to affect a deer population. Oh and by the way, the "best mule deer unit" for quality is 2C because it is the most restrictive. That is for biggest bucks. If you want quality and ok draw odds, put in for the SE part of the state. Big bucks down there. Point is that game management is not rocket science. You want more and bigger bucks? Cut license numbers. That cuts into hunter opportunity.
That's why I suggested making some units quality only units and the rest opportunity units. raise the price on the quality units only so that you can offset the cost of loosing the opportunity on the quality units. the only folks that are seeing an increase in the price would be the ones willing to pay more for quality deer.
we also need to raise the prices about every 4 years so that when the game and fish have to raise prices there is not a sticker shock. the last time there was a rate hike it almost caused a riot.
we also need to raise the prices about every 4 years so that when the game and fish have to raise prices there is not a sticker shock. the last time there was a rate hike it almost caused a riot.
ElkHunterNM
Active Member
- Messages
- 141
This is another reason, read this article.
http://www.santafenewmexican.com/ne...cle_2933b894-6333-513e-84a2-cedc92c25fd4.html
http://www.santafenewmexican.com/ne...cle_2933b894-6333-513e-84a2-cedc92c25fd4.html
I know that illegals from Mexico are totally different. I had one working in my shop when I bought it. He told me he had to go to court for a deer or two. I found out he was illegal and fired him then the guys told me he was going out in pickups with his buddies and killing 5-6 deer on a good night using lights. He did get caught and left for Mexico. One of the guys told me in Mexico they could just kill what they wanted to eat and did not understand why we don't allow that.
LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-19 AT 07:02PM (MST)[p]>I also disagree on Doe tags,
>if you think by killing
>more does you get more
>Bucks it simply won't work
>in NM. The main reason
>(at least up north) there
>are so few mature bucks
>is cruising the back roads
>of the winter range in
>Dec. and Jan. drinking Bud
>Light.
>Simply a FACT. Sad but true.
>And I don't know how
>it can be stopped.
>Jack
you got it figured...I remember back In the early 70s when the doe seasons were ...I killed 2 when I was preteen...and then there were no deer in 37...we blamed it on the doe season...went hunting other places...the deer in 37 never recovered to this day...but it coincided with the rest of the deer in wyo,colo deer population drop..ive seen deer and elk many times eating like they were in the same herd...I don't believe they compete except for water...you gotta go back to cyanide...nobody wants to talk about it..thats about the same time it was outlawed...ive seen coyotes run deer till they separate the does from their fawns they are good at it
>if you think by killing
>more does you get more
>Bucks it simply won't work
>in NM. The main reason
>(at least up north) there
>are so few mature bucks
>is cruising the back roads
>of the winter range in
>Dec. and Jan. drinking Bud
>Light.
>Simply a FACT. Sad but true.
>And I don't know how
>it can be stopped.
>Jack
you got it figured...I remember back In the early 70s when the doe seasons were ...I killed 2 when I was preteen...and then there were no deer in 37...we blamed it on the doe season...went hunting other places...the deer in 37 never recovered to this day...but it coincided with the rest of the deer in wyo,colo deer population drop..ive seen deer and elk many times eating like they were in the same herd...I don't believe they compete except for water...you gotta go back to cyanide...nobody wants to talk about it..thats about the same time it was outlawed...ive seen coyotes run deer till they separate the does from their fawns they are good at it
LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-19 AT 06:23PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-19 AT 06:21?PM (MST)
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-18
>AT 09:49?PM (MST)
>
>Here?s small issue with NM large
>amount of deer tags and
>small amount of deer. Most
>people love to hunt and
>look forward to it.
>
>Majority of hunters will spend maybe
>3 days of 5 day
>hunt. Of that 3 days
>in NM you may see
>1 nice buck and probably
>far or on private and
>2 or 3 fork or
>tiny 5 points. Well you
>spent all this money to
>come out and hunt and
>after all, what's the
>favorite line I just want
>to feel the freezer and
>bang 90 % of 2
>and 3 year old die
>before half of machurity.
>
>Even if you hunt your nads
>off you'd be hard pressed
>to find more than 2
>shooters on 5 - 8
>days hunting and honestly more
>luck than skill in most
>cases.
>
>The idea of opportunity hunts still
>dumb founds me to the
>point I'm cross eyed. But
>will it change? Absolutely not.
>We had better years with
>OTC tags. Why because of
>deer weren't were you were
>at you went home or
>went elsewhere. Self management. Now
>your stuck and that means
>take what you can get.
>
>
>If the deer were a concern
>tag fees would go up
>and some efforts to restore
>mule deer populations would be
>in affect. They aren't.
>Seen 100?s of RMEF drinkers...
>how Mule Deer Foundation? Zip
>
>
>Deers cheapest tag in the state
>and lowest population and lowest
>quality hunt. Coincidence? I'd
>think not. Big Horn lowest
>population highest tag cost and
>money draw. Catch the pattern.
>
>
>Just My Opinion.
im frustrated for 40 years about the deer population too...but criticizing rmef etal isn't the answer...im sure that Wyoming,colorado, and new mexico game and fish would love to know how to increase deer numbers..ive studied it for a long time ...in nm its coyotes, lions, drought, and lack of burns in my opinion...one thing that might influence you is go to a game commission meeting...ive only been to 2...I would not want want that job...im not their cheerleader...they pissed me off..but for every guy like you there are 5 bunny huggers there...they think YOU don't care cuz you aint there...therefor rmef money takes your place...get involved YOU can make a difference...ya gotta do more than bitchin...votes and money are the key
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-18
>AT 09:49?PM (MST)
>
>Here?s small issue with NM large
>amount of deer tags and
>small amount of deer. Most
>people love to hunt and
>look forward to it.
>
>Majority of hunters will spend maybe
>3 days of 5 day
>hunt. Of that 3 days
>in NM you may see
>1 nice buck and probably
>far or on private and
>2 or 3 fork or
>tiny 5 points. Well you
>spent all this money to
>come out and hunt and
>after all, what's the
>favorite line I just want
>to feel the freezer and
>bang 90 % of 2
>and 3 year old die
>before half of machurity.
>
>Even if you hunt your nads
>off you'd be hard pressed
>to find more than 2
>shooters on 5 - 8
>days hunting and honestly more
>luck than skill in most
>cases.
>
>The idea of opportunity hunts still
>dumb founds me to the
>point I'm cross eyed. But
>will it change? Absolutely not.
>We had better years with
>OTC tags. Why because of
>deer weren't were you were
>at you went home or
>went elsewhere. Self management. Now
>your stuck and that means
>take what you can get.
>
>
>If the deer were a concern
>tag fees would go up
>and some efforts to restore
>mule deer populations would be
>in affect. They aren't.
>Seen 100?s of RMEF drinkers...
>how Mule Deer Foundation? Zip
>
>
>Deers cheapest tag in the state
>and lowest population and lowest
>quality hunt. Coincidence? I'd
>think not. Big Horn lowest
>population highest tag cost and
>money draw. Catch the pattern.
>
>
>Just My Opinion.
im frustrated for 40 years about the deer population too...but criticizing rmef etal isn't the answer...im sure that Wyoming,colorado, and new mexico game and fish would love to know how to increase deer numbers..ive studied it for a long time ...in nm its coyotes, lions, drought, and lack of burns in my opinion...one thing that might influence you is go to a game commission meeting...ive only been to 2...I would not want want that job...im not their cheerleader...they pissed me off..but for every guy like you there are 5 bunny huggers there...they think YOU don't care cuz you aint there...therefor rmef money takes your place...get involved YOU can make a difference...ya gotta do more than bitchin...votes and money are the key
swampokie
Active Member
- Messages
- 396
>I like unit 52 near the
>Colorado border. Killed some good
>bucks, not every time I
>draw a tag. But have
>been lucky enough to harvest
>some 180?s.
Have u hunted this unit lately?
Ive been in this unit a lot in the last 10 years and couldn't be forced to accept a tag for deer.
>Colorado border. Killed some good
>bucks, not every time I
>draw a tag. But have
>been lucky enough to harvest
>some 180?s.
Have u hunted this unit lately?
Ive been in this unit a lot in the last 10 years and couldn't be forced to accept a tag for deer.
OCHO
Active Member
- Messages
- 334
>That's why I suggested making some
>units quality only units and
>the rest opportunity units. raise
>the price on the quality
>units only so that you
>can offset the cost of
>loosing the opportunity on the
>quality units. the only folks
>that are seeing an increase
>in the price would be
>the ones willing to pay
>more for quality deer.
>
>we also need to raise the
>prices about every 4 years
>so that when the game
>and fish have to raise
>prices there is not a
>sticker shock. the last time
>there was a rate hike
>it almost caused a riot.
>
Even if they raise the rates there's no guarantee the money will be spent to improve the deer status in this state. As discussed. Legislation dictates costs and allocations are decided by G&F. Charging more for deer for example only helps if the money is used to improve deer. Not big horns! LMAO
>units quality only units and
>the rest opportunity units. raise
>the price on the quality
>units only so that you
>can offset the cost of
>loosing the opportunity on the
>quality units. the only folks
>that are seeing an increase
>in the price would be
>the ones willing to pay
>more for quality deer.
>
>we also need to raise the
>prices about every 4 years
>so that when the game
>and fish have to raise
>prices there is not a
>sticker shock. the last time
>there was a rate hike
>it almost caused a riot.
>
Even if they raise the rates there's no guarantee the money will be spent to improve the deer status in this state. As discussed. Legislation dictates costs and allocations are decided by G&F. Charging more for deer for example only helps if the money is used to improve deer. Not big horns! LMAO
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