Big Game RIB online

LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-19 AT 12:35PM (MST)[p]Interesting...

Just skimmed through it on my lunch break. Archery deer hunts and rifle antelope hunts seem to be the biggest changes?

Some pretty significant tag reductions in the antelope units I was thinking of applying for too.
 
Really can't wrap my head around why they made the Archery deer hunts split. Really enjoyed that If you don't draw many tags at least deer afforded the opportunity to hunt 2 times. Now if you draw a Jan deer hunt and no elk you won't even hunt this year.

Some changes look good.
 
>Really can't wrap my head around
>why they made the Archery
>deer hunts split. Really enjoyed
>that If you
>don't draw many tags at
>least deer afforded the opportunity
>to hunt 2 times. Now
>if you draw a Jan
>deer hunt and no elk
>you won't even hunt this
>year.
>
>Some changes look good.


They changed them for more hunting opportunity, basically gave another hunt code.
 
>>Split up the tags into 5
>>seasons instead of just the
>>month of Feb. Even added
>>an archery hunt.
>>
>>Travis
>
>Did they up the amount of
>tags from last year ?
>
>
>https://www.sagemuleys.com

Yes, 850 rifle tags in unit 30 and 75 bow tags. 750 rifle in unit 32, 75 bow tags. I think this year it was 600 tags in 30 and 675 in 32.
 
>They changed them for more hunting
>opportunity, basically gave another hunt
>code.

IMO just makes it harder to draw. Take a hunt that had 100 tags and now is 60/40 if you want to hunt in Jan there is only 40 verses the previous 100.

Bow hunts are hard enough but to lose 2 chances sucks IMO... Was something I really enjoyed. As hard as it is to draw tags this made it nice to have two opportunities to at least get in the field more than once a year.
 
Also being an archery hunter I loved being able to go out twice if unsuccessful. But the split did increase the tags at least in most of the southern units by at least 5 per unit cuz most for example that were at 70 are now 35 and 40 or 50 is now 30 and 25.
 
>>>Split up the tags into 5
>>>seasons instead of just the
>>>month of Feb. Even added
>>>an archery hunt.
>>>
>>>Travis
>>
>>Did they up the amount of
>>tags from last year ?
>>
>>
>>https://www.sagemuleys.com
>
>Yes, 850 rifle tags in unit
>30 and 75 bow tags.
> 750 rifle in unit
>32, 75 bow tags.
>I think this year it
>was 600 tags in 30
>and 675 in 32.

Oh so they lowered the amount of tags from last year .
https://www.sagemuleys.com
 
>>>>Split up the tags into 5
>>>>seasons instead of just the
>>>>month of Feb. Even added
>>>>an archery hunt.
>>>>
>>>>Travis
>>>
>>>Did they up the amount of
>>>tags from last year ?
>>>
>>>
>>>https://www.sagemuleys.com
>>
>>Yes, 850 rifle tags in unit
>>30 and 75 bow tags.
>> 750 rifle in unit
>>32, 75 bow tags.
>>I think this year it
>>was 600 tags in 30
>>and 675 in 32.
>
>Oh so they lowered the amount
>of tags from last year
>.
>https://www.sagemuleys.com

Overall no, there is more tags. Per hunt, yes.
 
The one change that blows my mind, mostly because I never read the proposal amongst the proposed rules and would have submitted comments vehemently opposing, the youth encouragement elk hunt is no longer open to nonresidents. Was this change slipped in at the last minute?

I did read at one point a proposed idea to take tags from the youth hunt and create a seniors hunt but the exclusion of nonresidents was an unwelcome surprise.
 
Looked like they followed the rest of the state draws of no NR youth encouragment on the public ground draw units.

The seniors hunt is what's left over after the kiddos get their stab at it for the first 14 days.

I do not like what they did with the youth VV bull hunt nor the fact you can now shoot an elk (or oryx) with a 220 Hornet. That's just plain dumb.

Not sure what I think about the oryx hunts...
 
I think it's tough to lose the option to hunt both September and January. However, the size and amount of bucks should definitely increase because obviously there will be less success during the September hunts and then the January hunt there is about 40% of the normal hunters so more of the large bucks will live through it. Will be nice to draw them every few years for bigger deer. Gonna put a huge huge wrench into elk occupied units though. Hunters flooding in September because no option to hunt in January.
 
>
>>They changed them for more hunting
>>opportunity, basically gave another hunt
>>code.
>
>IMO just makes it harder to
>draw. Take a hunt that
>had 100 tags and now
>is 60/40 if you want
>to hunt in Jan there
>is only 40 verses the
>previous 100.
>
>Bow hunts are hard enough but
>to lose 2 chances sucks
>IMO... Was something I really
>enjoyed. As hard as it
>is to draw tags this
>made it nice to have
>two opportunities to at least
>get in the field more
>than once a year.

No doubt in some cases they will be harder to draw.i went to a couple of the meeting regarding these proposals and it was kinda pathetic the amount of hunters that didn't show up, not sure on the public comments by email, and t now you see some hunters gripe and moan about the new rules. I was totally against the new antelope rules and increasing deer tags in some units. The deer biologist I can assure you is about managing for opportunity rather than quality. Which is what the majority of public want.
 
>I do not like what they
>did with the youth VV
>bull hunt nor the fact
>you can now shoot an
>elk (or oryx) with a
>220 Hornet. That's just
>plain dumb.
>
>Not sure what I think about
>the oryx hunts...


In PA, you can't shoot an elk with anything under a .277 projectile. 26 Nosler, 264 Win Mag and 257 Bee are all off limits, but you could use a 30 Carbine or 38 Specials loaded in a lever carbine if you wanted. Arbitrary rules seem like a good idea to someone.
 
I was not aware that there were any archery deer tags that let you hunt in September and January anymore. I know it was like that in most units about 8 years ago? Good times back then.. the new change does make drawing a little harder. Good luck to you all!! :)
 
I'm a little surprised that nobody is talking about changes to antelope hunting. What is the reason behind the changes there? Not assigning successful applicants a ranch to hunt seems like it just made it harder to hunt. You're back to knocking doors and hoping someone will let you hunt their land for many, if not most of the antelope units.
 
The main reason no one is talking antelope is because we already did in a previous posts. Still don't like what they did with it. We will see.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-12-19 AT 02:51PM (MST)[p]I like the changes to bow hunts but I'm not really a bow hunter. I never could understand how bow hunters get 35 days, 15 in the rut to hunt and muzzle and rifle hunters get 5.


With the shape of our deer herds having hundreds of tags in the rut doesn't make sense. Not to mention how many killed 1 in sept and another in Jan. Print your own tag really screwed the honest hunter.

The caliber is meaningless. Who?s really going to hunt elk with a 22 hornet?
what's the difference 70 grain bullet out of a 223 or a 70 gr bullet out of a .243. One was legal the other wasn?t, now they both are. That was a good change In my book, because it is self regulating.
 
Because the responsible shot distance with archery tackle for Average Joe Hunter is 40 yds max. The responsible shot distance for Average Joe Hunter with rifle and muzzy tackle is 300 yds and 150 yds max respectively.

That's why.

And in NM, yeah, someone will use a 22 Hornet...
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-12-19
>AT 02:51?PM (MST)
>
>I like the changes to bow
>hunts but I'm not really
>a bow hunter. I
>never could understand how bow
>hunters get 35 days, 15
>in the rut to hunt
>and muzzle and rifle hunters
>get 5.
>
>
> With the shape of our
> deer herds having hundreds
>of tags in the rut
>doesn't make sense. Not
>to mention how many killed
>1 in sept and another
>in Jan. Print your
>own tag really screwed the
>honest hunter.
>
>The caliber is meaningless. Who?s
>really going to hunt elk
>with a 22 hornet?
>what's the difference 70 grain bullet
>out of a 223 or
>a 70 gr bullet out
>of a .243. One
>was legal the other wasn?t,
>now they both are.
>That was a good change
>In my book, because it
>is self regulating.


The majority of your post warrants a facepalm. There?s a reason wars are fought with riffles not bows. That seams be self explanatory to me...

And I would say January is post rut almost everytime. Little to no rut activity is going than. Sometimes more so in southern units but I have yet to see bucks full blown rut. You do see some individual bucks with a hot do but it's not common.

You should research success ratios with a bow if your still unable to wrap your head around bow hunters having more time to hunt.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post but when you draw an Archery deer hunt with option of hunting September and January your DO NOT get to shoot a buck in both seasons. You just get to hunt both if your unsuccessful in September you have the opportunity in January.

And regardless of the caliber 70 grain bullet shouldn't be shot at any big game animal imo.
 
Jaco,

The primo youth tags go very fast. There were other units where tags were going in the trash. I have watched if for several years, and several units went unfilled by quite of few permits. It is kind of sad and scary.

I find it odd you can not draw any permit now to get one. Some crappy third choice deer tag makes you ineligible.
 
>The majority of your post warrants
>a facepalm. There?s a
>reason wars are fought with
>riffles not bows. That seams
>be self explanatory to me...

HUH?

>And I would say January is
>post rut almost everytime. Little
>to no rut activity is
>going than. Sometimes more so
>in southern units but I
>have yet to see bucks
>full blown rut. You do
>see some individual bucks with
>a hot do but it's
>not common.

Anywhere south of I-40 they are rutting in January. Sometimes first 5 then tapers sometimes last 5 but yes full rutting in January

>You should research success ratios with
>a bow if your still
>unable to wrap your head
>around bow hunters having more
>time to hunt.

You need to research, some units are higher success rates with archery than rifle for deer.

>Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post but
>when you draw an Archery
>deer hunt with option of
>hunting September and January your
>DO NOT get to shoot
>a buck in both seasons.
>You just get to hunt
>both if your unsuccessful in
>September you have the opportunity
>in January.

I understand that's doesn't mean other didn't shoot 2.

>And regardless of the caliber 70
>grain bullet shouldn't be
>shot at any big game
>animal imo.

I agree it is. but my point was the caliber restriction the way it was had the same potential problem yet you didn't see people hunting elk with 70 gr bullets out of 243, because it is self regulating.
 
Ok, so I went back and must just be missing the explanation for the Antelope change.

Please help me understand if I am correct.

Tags are unit wide now vs. being assigned a ranch. Let's say you were putting in for a prime location before in hopes of drawing one of the ranches that holds a ton of Pronghorn. Now all you have to do is put in for the unit the prime ranch is in with slim hopes of drawing, then get permission from the ranch owner to hunt on his land or the public land locked in his ranch (aka pay him a hefty sum of money), and you are good to go? Am I correct? Seems like all G&F has done is empowered the ranch owners to make even more money off of hunters by not allowing anyone access to landlocked public land without paying them money, while still having the benefit of the rancher using the public land. Once again, am I correct with my train of thought?
 
>Ok, so I went back and
>must just be missing the
>explanation for the Antelope change.
>
>
>Please help me understand if I
>am correct.

Big Daddy that's the way I understand it also. I agree that it empowers ranchers to charge trespass fees, but on the flip side NMDGF is no longer giving ranchers tags (i.e. giving state wildlife to private parties).

The rancher can command whatever trespass fee the market will bear. He's NOT selling an antelope tag that was given to him for free.

The system is entirely different for sure and it will take a while for things to settle out.

Carl
 
Hunted archery deer in 22 on the southern end of the gila for 5 years and not once have I seen any rutting activity. In January every year the bigger bucks are back in groups together and the does are back together with an occasional small buck with them. So I'm not sure where this January rut is that your saying takes place?
 
>>Ok, so I went back and
>>must just be missing the
>>explanation for the Antelope change.
>>
>>
>>Please help me understand if I
>>am correct.
>
>Big Daddy that's the way I
>understand it also. I
>agree that it empowers ranchers
>to charge trespass fees, but
>on the flip side NMDGF
>is no longer giving ranchers
>tags (i.e. giving state wildlife
>to private parties).
>
>The rancher can command whatever trespass
>fee the market will bear.
> He's NOT selling an
>antelope tag that was given
>to him for free.
>
>The system is entirely different for
>sure and it will take
>a while for things to
>settle out.
>
>Carl

I could be wrong but the way i read it was tech they are not giving them tags but are now offering unlimited number of private land tags much like they did with deer . So basically you get a corresponding code and buy a landowner tag for antelope and hunt on the ranch ... if this is the case the antelope population will be about gone in 2 years as far as mature bucks go . So things ill never understand why the GF would do this . More moeny and power to the LO
 
>>>Ok, so I went back and
>>>must just be missing the
>>>explanation for the Antelope change.
>>>
>>>
>>>Please help me understand if I
>>>am correct.
>>
>>Big Daddy that's the way I
>>understand it also. I
>>agree that it empowers ranchers
>>to charge trespass fees, but
>>on the flip side NMDGF
>>is no longer giving ranchers
>>tags (i.e. giving state wildlife
>>to private parties).
>>
>>The rancher can command whatever trespass
>>fee the market will bear.
>> He's NOT selling an
>>antelope tag that was given
>>to him for free.
>>
>>The system is entirely different for
>>sure and it will take
>>a while for things to
>>settle out.
>>
>>Carl
>
>I could be wrong but the
>way i read it was
>tech they are not giving
>them tags but are now
>offering unlimited number of private
>land tags much like they
>did with deer . So
>basically you get a corresponding
>code and buy a landowner
>tag for antelope and hunt
>on the ranch ... if
>this is the case the
>antelope population will be about
>gone in 2 years as
>far as mature bucks go
>. So things ill never
>understand why the GF would
>do this . More moeny
>and power to the LO
>

Sounds exactly like what they did with deer for private land , unlimited tags but has to correspond with a public hunt code date

Private-land Only Pronghorn Licenses
To hunt on private-land only, hunters must obtain a Private-land Only Pronghorn License and tag?
available online, by telephone, from license vendors or at NMDGF offices. Online and telephone
purchases must be made at least 14 days prior to hunt start date to allow mailing of tags. When obtaining
a Private-land Only Pronghorn License, the hunter must select a hunt code which corresponds with a
Pronghorn-Draw Hunt Code for the unit, bag limit, sporting arm type and season date.
 
Bobby I agree with you somewhat, I think the pronghorn are about to take a big hit by making this move on certain ranches. I also think some of the ranchers are going to make bigger sums of money until the population gets smaller on their ranch. Other ranchers who used to receive tags from the state are going to lose out on some money now as well I believe. But that might be rightfully so.

Our family (myself and my 4 sons applying each year) has drawn 2 antelope tags in the past 4 years. One ranch was prime for antelope hunting and the other I questioned if it should have even been available for hunting.

One of my sons drew a prime ranch a few years ago, I believe it was where the world record came from, but I am not 100% positive about that. This ranch wasn't if you were going to get a pronghorn, but rather which one did you want to take. In the 2 days we were there, I estimate we saw at least 750-1000 pronghorn (both sexes). Back with the former antelope rules this rancher received 7 tags for his ranch I believe and the state had 4 tags for his 44,000 acre ranch. So I would guess he made a good some of money off those tags. Now he will be able to sell even more "rights" to hunt on his property and make even more if his ranch is in high demand.

With the amount of tags offered for each GMU it may not make a huge difference as long as a particular ranch is not targeted by everyone year in and out.

My question with this is what about the land that is state land or BLM that is either locked or gate coded behind the ranchers fence? Is it off limits because he has grazing rights? Why should we/How can they not offer this land to the public hunter? I fear there may be several hunters sitting on accessible land fence lines waiting for antelope to cross out of the ranches.
 
>Bobby I agree with you somewhat,
>I think the pronghorn are
>about to take a big
>hit by making this move
>on certain ranches. I
>also think some of the
>ranchers are going to make
>bigger sums of money until
>the population gets smaller on
>their ranch. Other ranchers
>who used to receive tags
>from the state are going
>to lose out on some
>money now as well I
>believe. But that might
>be rightfully so.
>
>Our family (myself and my 4
>sons applying each year) has
>drawn 2 antelope tags in
>the past 4 years. One
>ranch was prime for antelope
>hunting and the other I
>questioned if it should have
>even been available for hunting.
>
>
>One of my sons drew a
>prime ranch a few years
>ago, I believe it was
>where the world record came
>from, but I am not
>100% positive about that.
>This ranch wasn't if you
>were going to get a
>pronghorn, but rather which one
>did you want to take.
> In the 2 days
>we were there, I estimate
>we saw at least 750-1000
>pronghorn (both sexes). Back
>with the former antelope rules
>this rancher received 7 tags
>for his ranch I believe
>and the state had 4
>tags for his 44,000 acre
>ranch. So I would
>guess he made a good
>some of money off those
>tags. Now he will
>be able to sell even
>more "rights" to hunt on
>his property and make even
>more if his ranch is
>in high demand.
>
>With the amount of tags offered
>for each GMU it may
>not make a huge difference
>as long as a particular
>ranch is not targeted by
>everyone year in and out.
>
>
>My question with this is what
>about the land that is
>state land or BLM that
>is either locked or gate
>coded behind the ranchers fence?
> Is it off limits
>because he has grazing rights?
> Why should we/How can
>they not offer this land
>to the public hunter?
>I fear there may be
>several hunters sitting on accessible
>land fence lines waiting for
>antelope to cross out of
>the ranches.


management now will rely on the landowner as they are essentially allowed unlimited number of tags or in our speak, any hunter that wants to pay to hunt their ranch can essentially get a private land tag OTC and go.

Some ranchers im sure will input a sort of management plan but others who are money mongers will say sure come one come all as their is really no limit . So in that ranches you mentioned case if he wants to he can allow 25 tags to hunt his property on any given season
 
Mike,

I hope that is a typo. The other units around them are reversed. Sometimes it does not seem like there is any rhythm of reason, what they do though.
 
>Mike,
>
>I hope that is a typo.
> The other units around
>them are reversed. Sometimes
>it does not seem like
>there is any rhythm of
>reason, what they do though.
>


Don't think it's a typo. It was in the proposal documents. I sent multiple emails before the commission meeting asking about it and never got a response.

Travis
 
Has the application period opened yet? When I get online it doesn't show the Application link, only a link to previous year's applications.
 
Well I'm sure so many people are going to apply for the archery deer hunts in VV, and GMU 14 (Jan) that the rest of us are gonna get a tag much easier. Regardless, as a bow hunter I don't see much need to look at the previous odds reports for this years deers app.
 
This is the reply that I got regarding the 12/34 muzzle vs rifle hunt dates:

* Muzzleloader hunts in GMUs 12 and 34 were moved out of late September to avoid conflicts with aerial elk surveys during times when hunters are hunting deer
* The muzzleloader hunts in these GMUs were moved to November so they are closer to the timing of the deer rut.
* Although the muzzleloader hunts are after rifle hunts, the timing should allow muzzleloader hunters in these two GMUs to take advantage of the increased movement as bucks begin searching for does.
* The Department looked at several options to hold the muzzleloader hunt in October; The November time frame was also selected to avoid potential overcrowding and issues during other deer and elk hunts
 
I got the same response.

I think it's only these 2 units because those were the only "southern" units that had a muzzy hunt in late Sept and they wanted to move them to get them out of the Elk rut. My feeling is they didn't want Elk getting spooked before the first Elk gun/youth hunts which is understandable.

I don't really understand the explanation of wanting the muzzy hunt to be closer to the deer rut, so that's why they squeezed the muzzy hunt between the 2 rifle hunts? By that logic, the 2nd rifle hunt would be the best.

Hoping they reconsider this by next year and put the muzzy hunt first. I really enjoy the muzzy hunt in 34. Half the tags of the rifle hunts.
 
And we all know most Nov hunts are junk. Never seen any rutting action on any. Most of the time Deer specifically bucks are non existent.
 

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