Mule Deer

BenHuntn

BenHuntn

Active Member
Messages
585
Wyoming G&F has decided they will not feed mule deer this winter and will let nature take it's coarse.
 
That was a good decision, as feeding has been proven to not alleviate problem winters and can even exacerbate them when it's tried on deer and antelope due to their complicated digestive systems.
 
They also stated that things are not as bad as they first thought. But with 2 months left of winter anything can happen. This info was gained in an online open discussion of this winters impact and public input. In Star Valley we have had a ton of snow but recently we have had very warm temps. Today it made it to 41 degrees. It will probably be a low of 32 degrees.
 
Letting thousands of Deer die in the name of science? Is a good idea, REALLY! This is 2017 not 1917. I think science can (and has) to have a feed Mule Deer can eat and digest. I think it's about $money not science. We can send pictures through the air for thousands of miles on a little phone. But Mule Deer have to starve to death because there is no food they can DIGEST. HUH. What happened in Jackson is unacceptable the Sportsmen and the Game and Fish should be ashamed. (DEER BEING HIT BY CARS AND STARVING TO DEATH) Just plain AWFULL. I have been feeding Deer by my house for years. Rolled corn and sweet mix grain. Guess what it didn't poison them in fact I haven't had one die in years. We are going to lose more than half the herd in lots of places. Is that SCIENCE. Its time to hold someone other than mother nature accountable.
 
We go through this discussion a lot in Wisconsin. It applies to all ruminants but especially to deer. I know more about Whitetails than Mule Deer but here's how it works : The microbes in their digestive system breakdown their food and make it digestible. These microbes react slowly to change in diet and work best in a gradual transition - like when the deer transition from fall to winter food sources. If you start "winter" feeding hay , pellets, etc...gradually in late fall / early winter it will be very effective and will certainly help the deer. If you wait until mid-winter when the deer are stressed and give them a pile of hay or something they aren't used to you can do a lot more harm than good. The hungry deer will pig out on their abundant new food source but their digestive system won't be able to digest it. Since they are full they'll stop eating their traditional food. Many many deer have starved to death with a full stomach for that very reason. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-feeding by any means. I've been doing it for decades. However, it must be done correctly. In this case the WGFD might be correct that not feeding might be best for the herd - as contradictory as that might sound. Lets hope it warms up quickly !!
 
Not sure where thousands are dying but find it interesting that you know better how to take care of Wyoming's deer.The deer that didn't migrate are having a hard time but not dying by the thousands. Where do you get your data, lose half the herd. Just not that bad yet but next 2 months will tell.
 
I visited a couple of the feeding locations here in Utah last week with the director of Utah's DNR, Greg Sheehan, one of his top guys at the division and the top guy with MDF in this area.

They claimed that the feed their giving the deer is proven to work if done correctly. I know Wyoming wasn't happy to see Utah feeding deer, because if Utah does it, people in other states are going to want their deer fed too when the winter is bad.

It's like Greg said, he just can't sit on his hands watching deer die. He just felt that something has to be done to save what they can. I guess that's one of the upsides to the conservation tags in Utah, they generate money to fund stuff like this. Other states want to avoid feeding, but I'd bet it's far more about the money it would cost than the "science".

Hopefully there's just a nice warm spell coming. We've had warm weather here in northern Utah the last week or so and a LOT of snow has melted off. I was back up in the area of the feeding program yesterday and many south slopes were at least partially bare and vegetation was far more a accessible. It's melting quick.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
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chipc was right on the button with his post! The only way that proper feeding will help an animal is if it's started very early when their digestive system is just starting to change from summer to rougher winter vegetation. To do that you would have to start feeding early every year and continue feeding until the areas opened up and they could start on their early spring vegetation regimen. There is no way you want to do that when you have no idea what a winter is going to hold until it's essentially too late to start feeding like it is now. That is also not even considering the increased possibility of diseases that can be transmitted much easier throughout a population when the animals are in very close proximity to each other like they usually are during a feeding program. IMHO the yearly feed grounds they have for elk was a big mistake from the start many decades ago. Now the herds have it ingrained in them where they have to go and when in order to survive in what is essentially an unnatural man made setting.
 
I respectfully have to throw in this comment in regards to the post Founder just made in regards to Utah feeding deer. IMHO the reason is because the Utah DWR doesn't run itself any more, but rather that they are "beholden" to SFW/MDF the way they have taken over conservation there and from what I've heard of the situation is that the citizens of the state decided the feeding should take place and the DWR essentially went along with it even though it has been proven throughout the country that feeding is only a panacea for the people that think they are helping the animals. He is correct that Wyoming is not jumping for joy at the Utah feeding program and it was readily apparent during the open G&F discussion period yesterday on the net from Cheyenne that G&F Director Talbot didn't appear to be too happy with that decision.
 
Read up on the Gunnison valley feeding of 2007-2008. They fed the deer and still lost 4000. Purina makes a special formula just for Colorado. This year they are baiting the deer and elk away from roads. For Utah to say it is a success they will have to wait till winter is over and do there mortality study to find the end result.
 
>60 degrees here in No Ut
>hopefully this warm stretch is
>melting snow at lower elevations. I've lost 2 feet in the past week.
>
 
>Letting thousands of Deer die in
>the name of science? Is
>a good idea, REALLY! This
>is 2017 not 1917. I
>think science can (and has)
>to have a feed Mule
>Deer can eat and digest.
>I think it's about $money
>not science. We can send
>pictures through the air for
>thousands of miles on a
>little phone. But Mule Deer
>have to starve to death
>because there is no food
>they can DIGEST. HUH. What
>happened in Jackson is unacceptable
>the Sportsmen and the Game
>and Fish should be ashamed.
>(DEER BEING HIT BY CARS
>AND STARVING TO DEATH) Just
>plain AWFULL. I have been
>feeding Deer by my house
>for years. Rolled corn and
>sweet mix grain. Guess what
>it didn't poison them in
>fact I haven't had one
>die in years. We are
>going to lose more than
>half the herd in lots
>of places. Is that SCIENCE.
>Its time to hold someone
>other than mother nature accountable.
>
This is exactly the kind of hysteria that gets feeding deer started. The Wyoming Sportsman's Alliance fully supports the decision to not feed in Wyoming. This decision is backed by study after study that shows no evidence that feeding deer does anything but spread disease. I have seen first hand, near Casper, what feeding deer does, especially when they are fed in normal winters. It breeds an inferior animal, exactly what we don't need to happen.

Any money, any state puts toward feeding, would help deer much more if it were put towards habitat improvements. Period.
 
Hysteria! I guess... The WY range Mule deer numbers have not met objective for more years than I can remember. And now we take another big step backwards. Times have changed Wyoming has a lot more people, traffic and development. Every trip I take to the winter range there are more roads and oil wells. Less winter range, less sage brush, And less Deer. Forgot to mention new homes and subdivisions. We keep taking away from them (Mule Deer) and expect them to get along like they used to. That isn't going to happen. Kinda like what the White man did to the Native Americans. We are going to have to start thinking differently to get a different result. As far as how bad this winter is. Star Valley and Jackson area Deer have already taken a big hit. Nearly all the Deer in Snake River to Hoback are dead. Starved or hit by vehicles. The situation south of Jackson was totally preventable with some feeding up on the hill. I don't care what improvements you make to the winter range, if the Deer cant get to feed they will starve. So keep on doing the same thing and expect a different result. Oh and I thought science was about coming up with new and better ways not being stuck in an old rut. Hysteria you bet.
 
I agree not feeding is a good call. Just puts more deer in a small area for preadtors to have a hay day. Kinda like wolves on the elk refuge having a feast. The other day at work I had some elk and deer run out in front of me on the road. I stopped to see if any good bulls were around. What I saw was some wolves. 2 miles from meeteetse. I havent seen wolf kills in the rancher feilds but who knows what's up in hills off the road. The wolves didn't seem to be hunting but just.traveling or maybe setting a trap for hunting. There is some kill and nothing has feasted on that. I doubt wolves would eat road kill. Im assuming they prefer to kill their own food but I could see a hungry loner wolf eating road kill.

I have been in the hills and Riiverbottom. Only winter kill I have seen is a couple dead whitetail yearlings. My drive to meeteetse everyday I use hundreds of antelope in a wintering area. I haven't seen one yet. So i assume with the deep snow they moved somewhere else.


But back to mule deer they can move into the.rancher feilds. So the ones that stay on low land or the ones that migrate to low lands they can find good food sources. I know where I live we have the ranches and farm land so I can't speak for the deer down south that winter in the non farm land..

The kills I usaully find is in the mountains in lion. Country. The cats prey on the deer travel routes in the.mountain small canyons and also the sheep routes..

So kinda little report of what I have seen. Take note still a lot of.country I don't see. But my opinion is road kill has had a bigger effect then winter. Deer getting hit moving from bedding areas to feeding grounds. Deer have made it through harsh winters before
 
Letmgetbig-- You stated that Game and fish has been trying to meet the Mule Deer objective for years but no luck. You are going to love this. I was at a Wyoming Range Mule Deer meeting with Game and Fish. They said they have thought a lot about meeting an old mule deer herd objective and came up with a solution. They are going to lower the herd objective to make it easier to meet there objective. Also if you think Wyoming has a problem with encroachment on the winter range take a hard look at the Wasatch Front in the Salt Lake area. There is no more winter range, it is all homes and buildings. And the people complain about the deer in their yards. Un freakin believable.
 
Lowering the objective for the big game herds is a commonly used tactic by WGFD. They've been doing that ever since the killer winter of '92-'93. Mule deer numbers have never recovered from that winter.

I took a trip to the winter range 2 day ago. The snow is so deep that this "warming spell" is having zero effect. Cooler temps and more precipitation are in the near forecast for western Wyoming.

Deer are in poor body condition; weak and lethargic. Carcasses are easily seen with eagles, magpies and ravens all over. We are going to lose 50% of the herd, IMO. Yes, that would mean thousands of deer. I'm no biologist, but I know what a starving deer looks like, and it ain't pretty.

Sure seems like we could do something to help them. If disease occurs when feeding them because they gather too closely, then spread the feed out. Duh. Other states have fed deer with some success. What difference does it make how they die? Dead is dead.
 
Let me get this right, it's better to let 50% of the deer starve because if you feed them 25% will die ?


Hasn't anyone here ever seen deer and elk in hay sheds and feeding with the cattle? I'd like to know how much hay I lose to very much alive deer and elk each winter on my place. how could you possibly say feeding alfalfa doesn't work? maybe if you wait until they're a rack of bones this is true. I have a solution. don't let them become a rack of bones before you start feeding. wow huh?


One last thing on feeding, I just spent week in Jackson riding sleds and they were feeding 9000 head of elk on the refuge. like they do every year. why weren't there 9000 elk with their feet in the air? it's a mystery I tell you.

I expect the game commissions to make excuses for not feeding, they don't want to spend the money I get it. but I don't expect it from hunters. let's be real here.

We went over to Dubois last Thursday and I was pleased to see how much bare ground there was. lots of it. I'm not sure how the deer in the Wind river were doing before now but they're getting a break as of now.


Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-17 AT 12:42PM (MST)[p]FYI Togwotee an elk can eat what you mentioned with no problem any time of the year because of their digestive system that is completely different from that of a deer. For a deer to eat and survive on alfala hay they would have to be introduced onto it well before winter gets going and that's exactly why the G&F won't feed them. By the time a bad winter really starts to hurt deer it's too late to feed anything but possibly that special pelletized stuff that is very expensive and even then a percentage of the herd will die. IMHO we are paying biologists good money, so let them do what we're paying them for and it's not to feed the deer and antelope.
 
On the refuge do the elk get certified hay or grass hay or mixture of alfala/hay? Wouldn't they have to feed certified hay due to if elk are on wilderness area?
 
I don't believe the refuge is Wilderness or National Forest so I don't think the certified weed free thing has to apply.
 
>I don't believe the refuge is
>Wilderness or National Forest so
>I don't think the certified
>weed free thing has to
>apply.


I just looking at the regs to see if what wilderness. I was just curious on type of hay they used
 
>
>I expect the game commissions to
>make excuses for not feeding,
> they don't want to
>spend the money I get
>it. but I don't
>expect it from hunters. let's
>be real here.
>
It's not so much that they don't want to spend the money but rather that they don't have the money to spend. Also, do you honestly think if the G&F felt it would do some real good and they had the money to feed they would not feed the deer? What do you think they would be saving the money for? What would be the motivation to not feed if they felt it worked?
 
Then tell us they'd like to feed but can't afford it. don't lie to us and say it doesn't work.



You don't have to feed deer supreme grade alfalfa. feed them whatever hay works best. saying it can't be done is like saying you can't save starving kids in Africa because prime Porterhouse steak doesn't sit well with them.


They feed cubes on the refuge. it's easy to insure they're certified weed free.










Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
>Then tell us they'd like to
>feed but can't afford it.
> don't lie to us
>and say it doesn't work.
>
>
>
>
> You don't have to feed
>deer supreme grade alfalfa. feed
>them whatever hay works best.
> saying it can't be
>done is like saying you
>can't save starving kids in
>Africa because prime Porterhouse steak
>doesn't sit well with them.
>
>
>
>They feed cubes on the refuge.
>it's easy to insure they're
>certified weed free.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Stay Thirsty My Friends

Google the difference between elk and deer digestive systems 440 and see what you come up with. Your comments are pure ignorance when it comes to managing wildlife.

Oh, and next time you see those deer eating out in the hayfield, try and pay close attention to what they are eating.
 
I know exactly what they eat. my alfalfa fields are Round Up ready ( GMO ) . there is NOTHING , I repeat NOTHING in my fields except alfalfa and gophers. I wish the deer were eating gophers but I don't think so.

Deer eat alfalfa spring , summer, fall and winter. end of story.


I would imagine there are better feed programs than alfalfa for deer I'm not arguing that. so feed that to them.


Why would they lie? I'm not sure they are. we're just taking them at their word it's a bad idea. and it's a bad idea because they don't want to spend the money. let's not confuse the matter.

I'm also not arguing all deer can be saved all the time. I just know for an absolute fact based on a lifetime of watching deer raid my haystacks deer can live off supplemental feed. sometimes a week or two is a matter of life or death. I'd pay my share to seeing that need met by a tag fee increase in every state I apply for.








Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
Tog,

"Why would they lie? I'm not sure they are. we're just taking them at their word it's a bad idea. and it's a bad idea because they don't want to spend the money. let's not confuse the matter."

You are the one that said they were lying. Let me refresh your memory.

"Then tell us they'd like to feed but can't afford it. don't lie to us and say it doesn't work."

So you think the G&F thinks it puts itself in a better position by lying and saying "it doesn't work" rather than just saying "we don't have the money to do it". Interesting thought. Sounds foolish to me but ok.

I personally think it is as simple as the G&F believes supplemental feeding of mule deer doesn't work and would be a waste of money. I am also more inclined to believe them over you. I know, I know, you have a hay field and have witnessed a deer eating in it. I am also aware that you travelled to Wyoming in the winter and observed conditions from the cab of your truck while cruising down the highway. I also assume that you hunt deer in Wyoming from time to time. Still, in spite of this overwhelming database of knowledge you have I am compelled to believe the liars and fools that that decided to spend their careers trying to grow, maintain and strengthen the wildlife we have in Wyoming. I know it sounds foolish but I think I will side with the G&F this go around. Let me know if you hear a rumor from a guy at the bar about how to strengthen a deer herd. That may be enough to sway my opinion.
 
Deer eat alfalfa out of a hay yard. They will typically not even touch straight grass hay. I don't need a biologist to tell me different. Its fact. And as far as I can tell they do pretty well on it. The only thing is if they are too far along there may be no saving them.

I'm not advocating for feeding or not feeding, just stating fact - they will devour good alfalfa given a chance.
 
X2. Deer eat hay, deer love hay. end of story.


Wyoming isn't the only state with deer. Wyoming isn't the only state with winterkill. this is not a Wyoming thing. it's a money thing and most states are in the same boat.


If I send you a picture of mule deer deer pigging out in my hayshed will you admit you're wrong and reimburse me for my losses?

















Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
Most of the deer in the hay sheds have been eating off of it for months now. Their system is acclimatized. Late comers will die with a stomach full of hay. We have local deer that live off of hay through the winter, but they have been living off of it all winter.
 
Might as well just shoot them when they show up on a hay stack mid winter, put them out of their misery and save the hay for the cows. Corn too. Their doomed if they find a corn field.
 
>Might as well just shoot them
>when they show up on
>a hay stack mid winter,
>put them out of their
>misery and save the hay
>for the cows. Corn too.
>Their doomed if they find
>a corn field.


Instead of making absolutely ignorant comments like you and 440 are, you might want to go read up on this before proceeding any further! Read what was posted immediately above your post and you might have a clue as to why some deer can be fine eating it and others die with full stomachs! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand what happens if you have any reading comprehension at all!
 
I'm not arguing that its magic or that feeding should even be done. Its a monumental task to do it correctly and effectively. If the deer are too far gone your wasting a lot of effort and money. I agree you will be changing the microb's in their gut and you will make them very, very dependent on that feed once you start. So if started you have to be committed or you will do far more harm than good. That's why its generally a bad idea for an individual to start feeding deer. Can't keep up day in and day out.

One thing I know is if the deer here in north central SD don't find a farm or ranch to get a little supplemental feed from they are not going to survive . There are a lot dead already. Its too bad. They were just starting to recover from the blue tongue.

The only good news is the weather has gotten much better. Lets all hope for an early spring.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-17 AT 03:28PM (MST)[p]For the folks that love feeding Mule Deer with hay starting in February, this is what will happen




During the crippling winter of 2007-2008 when feeding operations were conducted by the Colorado Division of Wildlife to stave off starvation, many valuable lessons were learned. The most important was that wintertime feeding is almost always problematic, according to Stephen Torbit of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

?If you feed mule deer hay, they can starve with a full belly. They simply cannot digest the food fast enough to meet their needs, whereas elk, bison and cattle can do fine.? So mule deer need high-energy forage and that costs money. More important, says Torbit, is the need to educate the public about the importance of winter ranges. ?It's much cheaper to conserve winter range and educate the public than to feed big game. Most agencies do not believe that you can save enough animals to justify the cost.




Of course some will argue that sportsmen expect you to maintain high populations so they can continue to hunt. And they do have that expectation. But even after feeding, hunting permits are usually cut back and it takes years to rebuild a herd. Gunnison was just now coming back from the devastation from 2007-2008 and the DOW fed extensively (that winter) in the Gunnison Basin.?


winter loss of mule deer




Steve Torbit


Winter losses can be heavy. They spent 2.8 million dollars and still lost 4000 deer.


Despite losing as many as 4,000 fawns and female mule deer to starvation in the winter of 2007-2008, wildlife managers in Colorado also oppose winter feeding operations in general. But CPW officials will continue to closely monitor the situation in the Gunnison Basin. The short-term baiting operation the CPW has agreed to conduct might be temporary. But it seems highly unlikely that the state will endorse a full-blown feeding operation now or in the foreseeable future unless the current weather pattern intensifies far beyond a normal Colorado winter.


Tags: deer ,
deer hunting ,
Hunting
 
" Most agencies do not believe you can save enough animals to justify the cost " there you go, if you can't save them all don't spend any money.




Trying is the first step to failure. so play it safe and sit on your thumbs.


I had a biatch of a calving season this year, I lost more calves than I have in years to sub zero weather and snow. with the logic of this crowd we should have just sat in the house and watched TV because even though we saved dozens from certain death we failed to save them all. so I failed.

Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
+1 Tog. WYis living in the dark ages. I can guarantee you that the only deer we will lose this winter will be from predators, not our feeding program.
 
"I had a biatch of a calving season this year, I lost more calves than I have in years to sub zero weather and snow. with the logic of this crowd we should have just sat in the house and watched TV because even though we saved dozens from certain death we failed to save them all. so I failed."

Ridiculous comparison.

While generally most agree deer do not take to "hay" once the damage is done, let me tell you problems with feeding them throughout the winter;

South of Casper is the only designated closed area for deer in Wyoming (other than NP). The area most call Garden Creek has a lot of rural development along the foot of Casper Mtn. Some local homeowners there decided to feed the deer. Most likely, they thought when they weren't hugging trees, they could hug deer. Over the years the results were disgusting. Have any of you seen deer with tumors all over their face or scattered on the bodies? How about dwarf deer? Nifty huh? These do gooder homeowners were screwing with natures plan and inferior deer were surviving normal winter that would normally kill them. These deer were breeding I'm sure and spreading those "dwarf" and inferior genes.

Of course, the G&F tried to enforce feeding restrictions, but that didn't stop them. Eventually that protected herd crashed to almost nothing. Slowly but surely Mother Nature is bringing them back, but numbers pale to what they once were.

I"m not saying that herd crashed solely because of the feeding, but this herd is the slowest recovering group in areas 66 & 67 combined.
 
> Deer eat alfalfa spring ,
>summer, fall and winter. end
>of story.
>
>
> I would imagine there are
>better feed programs than alfalfa
>for deer I'm not arguing
>that. so feed
>that to them.
>


Tog:

You say the deer at your place eat alfalfa spring, summer, fall and winter. Since those deer eat alfalfa year around, you could feed them alfalfa hay (according to you THEY ARE eating alfalfa hay) in the winter and they would do fine, BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN EATING ALFALFA AND THEIR GUT IS USED TO IT!!

That is the point several on here have been making. The problem is deer that summer and fall in the high country (NO ALFALFA) and then come down to the winter range and the snow gets deep they can not then start to eat alfalfa without major digestive issues and the result would most likely be death.

ClearCreek
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-17 AT 09:41AM (MST)[p]


I never thought being a farmer and cattleman made me a genius but maybe I can help some of you here.


Alfalfa hay is one form of dry feed, it is not the only one. as I have tried to say if alfalfa is not the idea deer feed USE ANOTHER ONE . I personally grow alfalfa, grass hay, triticale, oat hay, and sometimes teff and vetch. there are dozens more crops to feed.

In those feed sources there are also different grades, if one is too hot use a lower test hay. if none of those are acceptable maybe some cheap meadow hay nobody likes to feed ? you won't tell me meadow hay kills deer will you? I've watched wintering deer eating around fence lines in meadows and cheat grass under juniper trees so don't tell me it's toxic to them.

don't get hung up on supreme test alfalfa as if there is nothing else with strings around it in the entire world.


The reason we don't feed deer is because we don't want to spend the money. just admit it . to make matters worse hay is dirt cheap this year and we're still inventing excuses. sad.















Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
The only sad thing here is a guy that thinks he knows it all because he's a farmer and will argue until his cows come home, LOL!
 
>The only sad thing here is
>a guy that thinks he
>knows it all because he's
>a farmer and will argue
>until his cows come home,
>LOL!

Exactly right Mike, 440 is hung up on this "hay" thing. Guess he's never heard how they starve with full stomachs.

It does make me laugh at how some think they know what's better for Wyoming than those that live here.
 
Mule deer are that much different in WY ? their digestive system is totally different than the ones in my hayshed in eastern Oregon? please provide proof.


Okay lets say you're right , hay kills deer faster than a 300 WBY. lets feed them pellets then, calf manna , granola bars or hell in the case of WY mule deer pumpkin pie and fava beans if that's their normal diet.

The point is deer can be fed if there is a desire to do so. you just can't wait until they're almost dead to start.














Stay Thirsty My Friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-17 AT 02:40PM (MST)[p]>Mule deer are that much different
>in WY ? their digestive
>system is totally different than
>the ones in my hayshed
>in eastern Oregon? please
>provide proof.
>
>
>Okay lets say you're right ,
> hay kills deer faster
>than a 300 WBY.
>lets feed them pellets then,
>calf manna , granola bars
>or hell in the case
>of WY mule deer pumpkin
>pie and fava beans if
>that's their normal diet.
>
>The point is deer can be
>fed if there is a
>desire to do so.
>you just can't wait until
>they're almost dead to start.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Stay Thirsty My Friends

I'm guessing you didn't read my post #48, but that's ok 440. This is one we don't agree on and most likely never will. I'm sure we both want what's best for deer; different approaches but I like how research favors my position. If you can find otherwise please provide.

Jeff
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-17 AT 01:28PM (MST)[p]>Mule deer are that much different
>in WY ? their digestive
>system is totally different than
>the ones in my hayshed
>in eastern Oregon? please
>provide proof. >
>Okay lets say you're right ,
> hay kills deer faster
>than a 300 WBY.
>lets feed them pellets then,
>calf manna , granola bars
>or hell in the case
>of WY mule deer pumpkin
>pie and fava beans if
>that's their normal diet.
>
>The point is deer can be
>fed if there is a
>desire to do so.
>you just can't wait until
>they're almost dead to start.

You're just continuing this thread to argue for arguments sake! The friggin deer all have the same digestive system and you finally made the statement in your last sentence above agreeing with us that "you can't wait to feed until they're almost dead to start". If all the deer on the winter ranges that are being affected by the severe weather this year had been artificially fed before winter got going so their systems would handle the feed like your deer that eat it almost year around you might save a large percentage of the herd. However, to do that would require artificial feeding "every year before winter starts" because we humans have no idea what God is going to unleash in a given area from year to year. We're talking about wild animals and the more interaction that humans have with them the more damage that is done. Jeff gave a good example of what can happen when "ignorant bleeding hearts" around Casper did what they shouldn't have and look what happened. The animals in that herd are suffering because ignorant people tried to help when they had no idea what that "help" would cause.
 

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Wyoming Hunting Guides & Outfitters

Badger Creek Outfitters

Offering elk, deer and pronghorn hunts on several privately owned ranches.

Urge 2 Hunt

We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.

J & J Outfitters

Offering quality fair-chase hunts for trophy mule deer, elk, and moose in Wyoming.


Yellowstone Horse Rentals - Western Wyoming Horses
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