jm77
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More bad news in southwest and western Wyoming
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jm77
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>What if I go out there
>and kill some 15 coyotes
>in a weekend? Will that
>be OK, assuming I do
>not mess with the deer?
>
If you read my posts, you know I don't agree with shed seasons. Particularly because I am convinced walking around looking or glassing up sheds has no impact on wintering game. Shed seasons also do not take into account that many other users, like coyote hunters, are still out there on the range and in my experience have no impact on game animals either.
However, if the conditions are such where even normal wildlife movement is hampered and game managers call for all users to suspend use in certain areas, I am more than willing to abide by that request.
>and kill some 15 coyotes
>in a weekend? Will that
>be OK, assuming I do
>not mess with the deer?
>
If you read my posts, you know I don't agree with shed seasons. Particularly because I am convinced walking around looking or glassing up sheds has no impact on wintering game. Shed seasons also do not take into account that many other users, like coyote hunters, are still out there on the range and in my experience have no impact on game animals either.
However, if the conditions are such where even normal wildlife movement is hampered and game managers call for all users to suspend use in certain areas, I am more than willing to abide by that request.
Founder
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It'll be very interesting to see what difference I see this summer in the areas I venture into. Obviously I don't look at too many does and fawns, but I'll see if there are less bucks. If I were to bet, I think I'll see little to no difference. We'll see. I just don't think it was bad long enough to hurt the 2-1/2 year old + bucks.
I don't know about the fawns though. Maybe they have taken a big hit. I guess come May 1st I'll see how many carcasses I find.
I was just looking at some webcam images from today and the snow depths don't look too bad at all. Lots of vegetation exposed. That's good. Temps. aren't horrible right now either. Hopefully though it remains as it has been.
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I don't know about the fawns though. Maybe they have taken a big hit. I guess come May 1st I'll see how many carcasses I find.
I was just looking at some webcam images from today and the snow depths don't look too bad at all. Lots of vegetation exposed. That's good. Temps. aren't horrible right now either. Hopefully though it remains as it has been.
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mightyhunter
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Thanks for the report JM77. We are fortunate in NW Wyoming that the last 2 weeks have been warmer. Some new storms are on the horizon, but I believe the worst is over.
just sayin...mh
just sayin...mh
nontypical
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LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-17 AT 03:07PM (MST)[p]Did you read the article, Founder? I would think the regional G&F biologist would know what he's talking about before he opens his piehole.
You may not see too many less mature bucks this year, but you will in about 4 or 5.
Yes...temps have warmed up. Here in RS we hit over 50 yesterday. Those winter ranges you showed the pics of usually average about 10 degrees colder than here. So before these last few days of warmer temps, those places were still in the 30's. Hardly a warming trend enough to melt the massive amounts of snow in some of those areas.
I believe the worst is over also. But I also believe it's too late in most of those areas. I usually make many trips during the winter to photograph and video deer on the winter ranges. I've only gone 3 times this year. January 3rd it began snowing while I was there. Kinda messed up any photo/video ops I may have had. Next time I went was 2 weeks later, due to terrible weather in between. The snow was much deeper and the temps remained cold. -21 that morning; and that was pretty typical of the previous 2 weeks, along with more snow. The deer appeared less hearty and some had bones showing through. Then we got round 2 of the snow with another 12" here in RS. The winter ranges got that too. It stayed cold for the remainder of January, with more snow north of here. My next trip was on Feb 8. I had reservations about going, because of what I feared I would see. Unfortunately, my fears were confirmed. The snow was literally twice as deep, and there seemed to be way fewer deer. The roads were still snow-packed( even the main roads), and many were impassable. In this particular place, there is oil field activity, and the roads were still impassable. Workers were using snow machines to get to sites. I've been doing this for 2-3 decades and I can't recall ever seeing this much snow there. Eagles, magpies, and ravens were having a hey-day on the few carcasses that were on top of the snow. I wonder how many were beneath the snow? The deer seemed weak and lethargic. I would post a before and after pic of a buck if I could figure out how. I went home early that day; not wanting to stress any deer, and disgusted over what I had seen. I won't go back until after the snow is gone. I will be shocked if we don't lose 80-90% of our fawns this winter.
Another winter storm is upon us now. For the next 36 hrs, we will see significant snow in sw Wyoming. We ain't outta the woods yet! It's only February. Most deer mortality occurs in March usually.
You may not see too many less mature bucks this year, but you will in about 4 or 5.
Yes...temps have warmed up. Here in RS we hit over 50 yesterday. Those winter ranges you showed the pics of usually average about 10 degrees colder than here. So before these last few days of warmer temps, those places were still in the 30's. Hardly a warming trend enough to melt the massive amounts of snow in some of those areas.
I believe the worst is over also. But I also believe it's too late in most of those areas. I usually make many trips during the winter to photograph and video deer on the winter ranges. I've only gone 3 times this year. January 3rd it began snowing while I was there. Kinda messed up any photo/video ops I may have had. Next time I went was 2 weeks later, due to terrible weather in between. The snow was much deeper and the temps remained cold. -21 that morning; and that was pretty typical of the previous 2 weeks, along with more snow. The deer appeared less hearty and some had bones showing through. Then we got round 2 of the snow with another 12" here in RS. The winter ranges got that too. It stayed cold for the remainder of January, with more snow north of here. My next trip was on Feb 8. I had reservations about going, because of what I feared I would see. Unfortunately, my fears were confirmed. The snow was literally twice as deep, and there seemed to be way fewer deer. The roads were still snow-packed( even the main roads), and many were impassable. In this particular place, there is oil field activity, and the roads were still impassable. Workers were using snow machines to get to sites. I've been doing this for 2-3 decades and I can't recall ever seeing this much snow there. Eagles, magpies, and ravens were having a hey-day on the few carcasses that were on top of the snow. I wonder how many were beneath the snow? The deer seemed weak and lethargic. I would post a before and after pic of a buck if I could figure out how. I went home early that day; not wanting to stress any deer, and disgusted over what I had seen. I won't go back until after the snow is gone. I will be shocked if we don't lose 80-90% of our fawns this winter.
Another winter storm is upon us now. For the next 36 hrs, we will see significant snow in sw Wyoming. We ain't outta the woods yet! It's only February. Most deer mortality occurs in March usually.
My friend in N. Ogden had over a dozen fawns dead in his horse pasture in Jan. The earlings and does were struggling. They wont be building any fat reserves between now and april, even with the warm up. They will just be doing what they can to hang on the till the good feed arrives.
I woke up today and could still breathe, so I guess not shed hunting isn't gonna kill me.
Yelum
YBU
I woke up today and could still breathe, so I guess not shed hunting isn't gonna kill me.
Yelum
YBU
Founder
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Yes, I kinda read the article and I'm sure he's right. I've never heard of anyone ever opening their piehole unless they knew what they were talking about. Geeesh, I can't imagine that ever happening. Ha Ha
I'm joking. I'm sure the deer were/are struggling. I just don't think it'll have a huge toll on 2-1/2+ year old bucks. That's all. I could be wrong. Summer backpacking will tell the story on that one.
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I'm joking. I'm sure the deer were/are struggling. I just don't think it'll have a huge toll on 2-1/2+ year old bucks. That's all. I could be wrong. Summer backpacking will tell the story on that one.
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HalfAce
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Whatever the conditions are now, warm, cold or anything in between, it's a damn shame how many fawns this winter has taken. It was brutal there for a good period of time. It sucks to lose a whole generation of young deer. Even worse, some doe's will abort fawns and not have any this spring just because of how difficult it was for the doe to make it through the winter. So thats two generations that are affected. On top of that, I read somewhere (mtfwp) that Eastern Montana's region 7 after the brutal winter of 2010-2011, that as many as 30-35% of the does that DID survive that winter became dry/ infertile because of the energy they expended just trying to make it. Those does won't produce a fawn again, but compete with the rest of the deer for precious winter range food.
This winters effects may be felt for quite a long time. Hoping SW WY recovers quickly.
This winters effects may be felt for quite a long time. Hoping SW WY recovers quickly.
ICMDEER
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Sad deal and thanks for the update. Makes my heart heavy to know that.
We've got a BIG storm here in SE WY now. Maybe 15-18" in one day. And colder weather to follow. Good news is that the country was bared off from here to Rawlins and the critters have had a several week reprieve.
Days are getting longer and hopefully this snow won't last too long.
It will be interesting to watch all of this unfold and see if seasons or quotas are changed.
Best of luck to those critters.
We've got a BIG storm here in SE WY now. Maybe 15-18" in one day. And colder weather to follow. Good news is that the country was bared off from here to Rawlins and the critters have had a several week reprieve.
Days are getting longer and hopefully this snow won't last too long.
It will be interesting to watch all of this unfold and see if seasons or quotas are changed.
Best of luck to those critters.
fullthrottle
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Yes it's looking bad, nobody should throw theit points away in G this year. Hold out for a good late tag.
nontypical
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Sweetwater county got anywhere from 12"-23" from this last storm on Wed/Thurs. I'm so freakin' sick of snow I could puke.
Snowing again as I type this.
Snowing again as I type this.
fullthrottle
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I keep trying to be optimistic, but damn... these big late storms can't be doing the critters any favors.
Gator
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That winter kill wouldn't show up this coming season that much on bigger bucks, seeing small bucks will be a chore they are the ones killed this winter, BUT 3-4-5 years down the line those Big bucks we all like to see just will not be there in good numbers.
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nontypical
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This year could be an exception to that, Gator.
I noticed several older class bucks this year that were limping and with broken legs during and after the rut. At that time I didn't think much about it, other than it seemed more than usual. Maybe there were more breeding age bucks this year that got lots more competitive? Hard to say. Maybe I'm just full of crap, too!
I also noticed it seemed several of the older bucks were dropping antlers earlier than usual. Maybe mother nature's way of trying to help them through what she knew was coming?
I did notice many mature bucks that looked pretty bad clear back in late Dec/early Jan. I hope I'm wrong, and I hate to be so pessimistic, but it just plain don't look good for Wyoming Range deer right now. I seriously don't think I've seen this much snow since '83-'84; and that was a major winterkill year.
Of course, fawns will be hardest hit. But I fear this year could be a killer of all age classes. Only the heartiest will survive this one...
I noticed several older class bucks this year that were limping and with broken legs during and after the rut. At that time I didn't think much about it, other than it seemed more than usual. Maybe there were more breeding age bucks this year that got lots more competitive? Hard to say. Maybe I'm just full of crap, too!
I also noticed it seemed several of the older bucks were dropping antlers earlier than usual. Maybe mother nature's way of trying to help them through what she knew was coming?
I did notice many mature bucks that looked pretty bad clear back in late Dec/early Jan. I hope I'm wrong, and I hate to be so pessimistic, but it just plain don't look good for Wyoming Range deer right now. I seriously don't think I've seen this much snow since '83-'84; and that was a major winterkill year.
Of course, fawns will be hardest hit. But I fear this year could be a killer of all age classes. Only the heartiest will survive this one...
BPKHunter
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Bad winters are much harder on mature bucks than your average doe, due to Rut in mid-late Nov and no time to rebuild fat reserves. So, if you guys are seeing dead does, then you better believe you're going to see some "dead heads" under the melting snow that won't be on your video's next summer Founder.
Founder
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Buckjunkie
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Been hunting across the western states for almost 30 years. My experience with bad winters is that the young and old are first to go. The 2-4 year olds fare better so you have a chance for a couple years after a bad winter to find a good buck, but then there is a gap. Mean time guys are killing small bucks making the problem worse. If there is a second bad winter during this time it can be many years before it's any good again.
My .02 cents.
My .02 cents.
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