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Nonresident moose and sheep preference points

 
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jm77
(1224 posts)
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Sep-19-17, 
03:58 PM (MST)
"Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

In a surprise move today, the Wyoming Game & Fish Commission exercised their statutory authority and increased the price of NR preference points for moose and sheep to the maximum amount of $150 each, effective 2018.

The game just became more expensive for those who live outside Wyoming.

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  Table of Contents  

 Subject   Author   Message Date   ID 
 RE: Nonresiden...  264mag      Sep-19-17   1 
  RE: Nonresiden...  appaloosa      Sep-19-17   2 
 RE: Nonresiden...  30Hart      Sep-19-17   3 
  RE: Nonresiden...  Onelegwonder      Sep-19-17   4 
 RE: Nonresiden...  Triple_BB      Sep-19-17   5 
 RE: Nonresiden...  Hunt_the_We...      Sep-19-17   6 
 RE: Nonresiden...  elkantlers      Sep-19-17   7 
  RE: Nonresiden...  jm77      Sep-19-17   8 
  RE: Nonresiden...  ClearCreek      Sep-19-17   9 
   RE: Nonresiden...  elkantlers      Sep-19-17   10 
 RE: Nonresiden...  DeerHunter53      Sep-20-17   11 
  RE: Nonresiden...  OchocoKid      Sep-20-17   12 
  RE: Nonresiden...  Triple_BB      Sep-20-17   13 
   RE: Nonresiden...  Hunt_the_We...      Sep-20-17   14 
    RE: Nonresiden...  264mag      Sep-20-17   15 
 RE: Nonresiden...  elks96      Sep-20-17   16 
  RE: Nonresiden...  jm77      Sep-20-17   17 
   RE: Nonresiden...  jims      Sep-20-17   18 
    RE: Nonresiden...  elks96      Sep-21-17   20 
   RE: Nonresiden...  elks96      Sep-21-17   19 
    RE: Nonresiden...  264mag      Sep-21-17   21 
     RE: Nonresiden...  Zeke      Sep-21-17   22 
      RE: Nonresiden...  264mag      Sep-21-17   23 
       RE: Nonresiden...  OchocoKid      Sep-21-17   24 
        RE: Nonresiden...  264mag      Sep-21-17   26 
    RE: Nonresiden...  jm77      Sep-21-17   25 
     RE: Nonresiden...  OchocoKid      Sep-21-17   27 
      RE: Nonresiden...  jm77      Sep-22-17   28 
       RE: Nonresiden...  PleaseDear      Sep-23-17   29 
        RE: Nonresiden...  DoubleDropM...      Sep-23-17   30 
         RE: Nonresiden...  DoubleDropM...      Sep-23-17   31 
     RE: Nonresiden...  elks96      Sep-26-17   32 
      RE: Nonresiden...  jm77      Sep-26-17   33 

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264mag
(6333 posts)
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Sep-19-17, 
04:22 PM (MST)
1. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

>In a surprise move today, the
>Wyoming Game & Fish Commission
>exercised their statutory authority and
>increased the price of NR
>preference points for moose and
>sheep to the maximum amount
>of $150 each, effective 2018.
>
>
>The game just became more expensive
>for those who live outside
>Wyoming.
Does that mean my odds just got better ? (LMAOF)
)

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appaloosa
(114 posts)
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Sep-19-17, 
04:37 PM (MST)
2. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

Wow. I am a resident and I am absolutely embarrassed by this. Its like the shop owners who price gouge people during a natural disaster because demand has gone up some much. What a racket...

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30Hart
(1198 posts)
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Sep-19-17, 
04:42 PM (MST)
3. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

Ya, not long till elk, deer, antelope increases come too!!!

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Onelegwonder
(56 posts)
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Sep-19-17, 
04:43 PM (MST)
4. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

>Ya, not long till elk, deer,
>antelope increases come too!!!


I think you are right!!

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Triple_BB
(1742 posts)
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Sep-19-17, 
04:55 PM (MST)
5. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

Given the percentage of tags they give to non-rezi's, glad to hear it...

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Hunt_the_West
(150 posts)
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Sep-19-17, 
07:01 PM (MST)
6. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

No idea why this would surprise you....

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elkantlers
(2050 posts)
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Sep-19-17, 
09:00 PM (MST)
7. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

>In a surprise move today
>


I'm sure this is sarcasm.

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jm77
(1224 posts)
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Sep-19-17, 
09:25 PM (MST)
8. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

>>In a surprise move today
>>
>
>
>I'm sure this is sarcasm.

Nope it's not...


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ClearCreek
(92 posts)
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Sep-19-17, 
09:29 PM (MST)
9. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

>>In a surprise move today
>>
>
>
>I'm sure this is sarcasm.


I don't think it was sarcasm. I was watching online and it was a surprise. Can't remember the Commissioner that made the motion, but it was unexpected.

ClearCreek


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elkantlers
(2050 posts)
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Sep-19-17, 
09:45 PM (MST)
10. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

LAST EDITED ON Sep-19-17 AT 09:46 PM (MST)

I guess I just expected that they would charge the maximum ever since it was announced that they could charge that much. Why wouldn't they?

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DeerHunter53
(297 posts)
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Sep-20-17, 
08:00 AM (MST)
11. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

So if you do the math and you apply for fifteen years to draw a tag that would be $2,250.00 and what does it cost to buy the tag, if it's Utah I think it is a grand or fifteen hundred. So let's call it 4 grand to maybe draw a tag in fifteen years.

I'm 63 so that would be 78 when I could possibly maybe or maybe not draw a tag. This is why hunting has gone to hell. Who can afford those prices to hunt....and wait that long.

We older guys are running out of time, there should be some sort of division for Older guys and tags for them... I'm sure this will draw out some comments.

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OchocoKid
(1019 posts)
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Sep-20-17, 
09:01 AM (MST)
12. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

Obviously they will always sell all the tags. but at what point do the high preference point fees run off more applicants making donations than what the fee increases generate?


My wife and I have drawn our WY sheep and moose tags and now being in our 50's it's a suckers bet to try to start over again. at $50 we might, at $150 no way in hell. so right here that's $200 a year WY isn't getting.


It's all about the money. everything is always about the money. but it will be interesting to see at what point greed becomes counterproductive.


Stay Thirsty My Friends

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Triple_BB
(1742 posts)
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Sep-20-17, 
09:09 AM (MST)
13. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

LAST EDITED ON Sep-20-17 AT 09:10 AM (MST)

For you older guys, its called Canada...

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Hunt_the_West
(150 posts)
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Sep-20-17, 
11:42 AM (MST)
14. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

Unfortunately for us middle aged guys it may also be called Canada, but many will never be able to afford a Canadian sheep hunt. Moose.... maybe.

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264mag
(6333 posts)
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Sep-20-17, 
01:02 PM (MST)
15. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

I have 10 points but will be hard to draw any top units,its all gonna be a random draw

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elks96
(1644 posts)
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Sep-20-17, 
03:14 PM (MST)
16. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

Sadly hunting WY will slowly become a thing f the past for many. Sure we can still get a few tags minimal points, but we are looking higher and higher cost.

I can not imagine the cost for family. It is unreal to imagine what it would cost for my family of 4 hunters to simply get the points, let alone the tags. I was looking at Wy sheep and moose and now I will simply put my PP fees away and save for a trip to some exotic place...

If the move the same way with Elk, Deer and Lopes, I will cash my point in and probably not build them again... I am actually only building points for elk and lopes so I can split a hunt with my kids when they are old enough.

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jm77
(1224 posts)
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Sep-20-17, 
03:44 PM (MST)
17. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

>Sadly hunting WY will slowly become
>a thing f the past
>for many. Sure we can
>still get a few tags
>minimal points, but we are
>looking higher and higher cost.
>
>
>I can not imagine the cost
>for family. It is unreal
>to imagine what it would
>cost for my family of
>4 hunters to simply get
>the points, let alone the
>tags. I was looking at
>Wy sheep and moose and
>now I will simply put
>my PP fees away and
>save for a trip to
>some exotic place...
>
>If the move the same way
>with Elk, Deer and Lopes,
>I will cash my point
>in and probably not build
>them again... I am actually
>only building points for elk
>and lopes so I can
>split a hunt with my
>kids when they are old
>enough.

Hmmm so you're a nores? That's interesting...

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jims
(1704 posts)
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Sep-20-17, 
06:43 PM (MST)
18. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

It will be interesting to see how many nonres that applied last year for moose and sheep opt out and no longer apply. The number of hunters that opt out or decide not to start applying (after they see the horrendous price to apply) may exceed the price increase to apply? May stab the WG&F in the butt in the long run! If Wyo does this for other species it could really bite them in the butt when nonres decide to pull the plug and apply elsewhere!

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elks96
(1644 posts)
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Sep-21-17, 
09:20 AM (MST)
20. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

>It will be interesting to see
>how many nonres that applied
>last year for moose and
>sheep opt out and no
>longer apply. The number
>of hunters that opt out
>or decide not to start
>applying (after they see the
>horrendous price to apply) may
>exceed the price increase to
>apply? May stab the
>WG&F in the butt in
>the long run! If
>Wyo does this for other
>species it could really bite
>them in the butt when
>nonres decide to pull the
>plug and apply elsewhere!

Jims,

Not sure the opt out rate will be really high, as most would rather swallow a small pill every year moving forward than to surrender the money already spent for nothing. All preference points systems work the same. They get you over a barrel and lock you in eventually sticking you between a rock and a hard place.

I think the opt out rate will not be much except for low point holders. On the flip side new point holders will likely have a harder time justifying getting started. Sadly this is only a move to the legal Max now... I can almost bet they are already working a way around to increase the max point cost since they just hit it... In a few years there will be a move to increase the fees again. Those looking to start now need to be aware of the history and direction this will likely go.

It is not surprising just disappointing...

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elks96
(1644 posts)
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Sep-21-17, 
09:11 AM (MST)
19. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

LAST EDITED ON Sep-21-17 AT 09:28 AM (MST)

>>Sadly hunting WY will slowly become
>>a thing f the past
>>for many. Sure we can
>>still get a few tags
>>minimal points, but we are
>>looking higher and higher cost.
>>
>>
>>I can not imagine the cost
>>for family. It is unreal
>>to imagine what it would
>>cost for my family of
>>4 hunters to simply get
>>the points, let alone the
>>tags. I was looking at
>>Wy sheep and moose and
>>now I will simply put
>>my PP fees away and
>>save for a trip to
>>some exotic place...
>>
>>If the move the same way
>>with Elk, Deer and Lopes,
>>I will cash my point
>>in and probably not build
>>them again... I am actually
>>only building points for elk
>>and lopes so I can
>>split a hunt with my
>>kids when they are old
>>enough.
>
>Hmmm so you're a nores? That's
>interesting...

Always have been and never claimed to be anything else... Why so interesting?

Is it that surprising that a NR would actually care about wildlife management and decisions being made in another state? Because I have spent time working in your state as a NR to volunteer, to work on wildlife projects? Or more surprising because as a nonresident you will chose to totally ignore anything I say going forward?

I have a ton of friends in Wy. I have a ton of interest in how WY is managed. My own kids would rather be in WY. Once I get my first career done and can make a big move with out screwing up my retirement (10 years left). I will be a WY resident.

I just hope everyone in WY that do not understand how well they have it will screw it all up...

The points restriction moving away from general tags, wanting more trophy limits etc.

As a sportsman I am always going to favor opportunity and will always oppose regulation that will decrease opportunity.

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264mag
(6333 posts)
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Sep-21-17, 
11:25 AM (MST)
21. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

I would like to see Wyoming have NR be able to transfer there sheep points to other species, how would you residents feel about that?

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Zeke
(8276 posts)
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Sep-21-17, 
03:51 PM (MST)
22. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

>
>
>
>
> I would like to
>see Wyoming have NR be
>able to transfer there sheep
>points to other species, how
>would you residents feel about
>that?

I doubt the residents would care but a few of us NR folks would howl about that....and it will never happen that points can be converted or transferred. Wyo G&F is too smart to open the door for shenanigans like that.

I'm out of the sheep and moose points game (tags) and after my son's death I have little reason to follow what happens for those two species (price wise). Too bad for many guys and gals that the tariff just went up to play in Wyoming. I know my elk tag will cost more next year but I'll pay to play one more time.

Zeke
#livelikezac

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264mag
(6333 posts)
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Sep-21-17, 
06:14 PM (MST)
23. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

Zeke, it was just a thought but I know it will never happen. I also dropped out for moose but staying in for sheep with only 10 points, maybe for a random tag, you think that is possible?

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OchocoKid
(1019 posts)
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Sep-21-17, 
06:26 PM (MST)
24. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

Possible. not probable. odds of less than 1 in 250 aren't worth $160 a year to me.



https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/Hunting/Drawing%20Odds/DRAW_SHEEP_RD_NONRES_2017.pdf

Stay Thirsty My Friends

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264mag
(6333 posts)
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Sep-21-17, 
10:16 PM (MST)
26. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

>Possible. not probable.
>odds of less than 1
>in 250 aren't worth
>$160 a year to me.
>
>
>
>
>https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/Hunting/Drawing%20Odds/DRAW_SHEEP_RD_NONRES_2017.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Stay Thirsty My Friends
Thank you for that info.

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jm77
(1224 posts)
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Sep-21-17, 
08:52 PM (MST)
25. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

LAST EDITED ON Sep-21-17 AT 08:53 PM (MST)


>I just hope everyone in WY
>that do not understand how
>well they have it will
>screw it all up...
>
>The points restriction moving away from
>general tags, wanting more trophy
>limits etc.
>
>As a sportsman I am always
>going to favor opportunity and
>will always oppose regulation that
>will decrease opportunity.
>


Let me say this elks, please learn some grammar, your posts sometimes can be a challenge and/ or don't make sense. Maybe some punctuation?

Second, I thought your concern was the quality of the bucks? Now it is opportunity; it's tough keeping general and managing for quality at the same time. Please make up your mind or better yet, worry about your own state, as we have done just fine here in Wyoming. If you disagree with that, I can show you the state line.

Ever heard the phrase "can't see the forest for the trees"? Reminds me of how you now think
about point restrictions and opportunity. Sometimes you can't have one without the other. Get it?


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OchocoKid
(1019 posts)
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Sep-21-17, 
11:16 PM (MST)
27. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

LAST EDITED ON Sep-21-17 AT 11:26 PM (MST)

Considering what WY deer hunting was and what it is, I would hesitate to brag on your record.

I will see the state line when I come hunting, I'll find my own way out but than you. this would be a good time to thank the WY outfitter lobby that I can say that I might add.


We agree to get hosed for the opportunity we receive. let's just let that be enough and all get along.


Stay Thirsty My Friends

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jm77
(1224 posts)
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Sep-22-17, 
08:53 AM (MST)
28. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

>LAST EDITED ON Sep-21-17
>AT 11:26 PM (MST)

>
>Considering what WY deer hunting was
>and what it is, I
>would hesitate to brag
>on your record.
>
>I will see the state line
>when I come hunting, I'll
>find my own way out
>but than you. this
>would be a good time
>to thank the WY outfitter
>lobby that I can say
>that I might add.
>
>
> We agree to get hosed
>for the opportunity we receive.
> let's just let
>that be enough and all
>get along.
>
>
>
>
>Stay Thirsty My Friends

You too 440, write like you make sense, or maybe a few too many last night?

I could get into an argument with you about deer management and "the way things used to be" but not this time. I could also say butt out, my comment was for elks, not you, but I won't do that either.

And go ahead and keep thanking the outfitter lobby while they work behind closed doors to get outfitter sponsored tags. You already knew that though, because you're so tight with them.

I'm just glad you agree to get hosed, mighty big of you.

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PleaseDear
(8046 posts)
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Sep-23-17, 
03:45 AM (MST)
29. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

Thanks for the heads-up 77.

Robb

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DoubleDropMuley
(389 posts)
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Sep-23-17, 
06:23 PM (MST)
30. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-17 AT 06:24 PM (MST)

The way I see it it just go's along with what other states do to us wyo residents just in a different way. Gotta buy a license to even apply for the point. So no matter the state they will get us one way or the other so just depends on if ya want to play there game or sit on sidelines. It's all about the benjimans!!!

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DoubleDropMuley
(389 posts)
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Sep-23-17, 
06:34 PM (MST)
31. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

And as far as the quality vs opportunity debate I can say some big big bucks have been killed this year already and quite a few. Me and the son went into a new area to us looking for a moose he drew a tag for. Never been there and we found several bucks with one we think was over 180" and his little buddies. But do to buck fever I blew it lol. Been back a couple times but been concentrating on his moose. People running all over the roads saying horn is hard to find. May be just a little bit harder because of the winter we had but never being in an area before and less than 2 hrs into the hunt finding a buck of the caliber we did just says to me hunt and don't practice your driving!! Good luck to all that's still at it!!

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elks96
(1644 posts)
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Sep-26-17, 
09:16 AM (MST)
32. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"

>LAST EDITED ON Sep-21-17
>AT 08:53 PM (MST)

>
>
>>I just hope everyone in WY
>>that do not understand how
>>well they have it will
>>screw it all up...
>>
>>The points restriction moving away from
>>general tags, wanting more trophy
>>limits etc.
>>
>>As a sportsman I am always
>>going to favor opportunity and
>>will always oppose regulation that
>>will decrease opportunity.
>>
>
>
>Let me say this elks, please
>learn some grammar, your posts
>sometimes can be a challenge
>and/ or don't make sense.
>Maybe some punctuation?
>
>Second, I thought your concern was
>the quality of the bucks?
>Now it is opportunity; it's
>tough keeping general and managing
>for quality at the same
>time. Please make up your
>mind or better yet, worry
>about your own state, as
>we have done just fine
>here in Wyoming. If you
>disagree with that, I can
>show you the state line.
>
>
>Ever heard the phrase "can't see
>the forest for the trees"?
>Reminds me of how you
>now think
>about point restrictions and opportunity. Sometimes
>you can't have one without
>the other. Get it?

Exactly the BS response I predicted... As for my post most of them lately have been done via phone while out hunting WY. It is funny how hypocritical some people can be...

You surely did not have a problem with nonresidents or any hunter for that matter stepping up to support the WY wolf plan. You never once told a person like me to worry about my own state while I was writing letters to congress in support of de-listing wolves. You probably are not very upset to have me currently writing and supporting the de-listing of the grizzly either. You probably did not have a single issue with this nonresident writing in support of the state purchasing the Boston ranch nearly 10 years ago (or there about). Also if I recall correctly you were here with other Wyoming hunters asking all of us to to speak up in opposition of the land swap that was voted down.

I am sorry but I will still be a voice in WY. Luckily it sounds like the biologist who was working in the areas I hunt is now gone. While he was a great guy, I felt like he was a puppet to a few voices and ignored the voices of many others in the area. I can only hope the new biologist, is willing to work out fixes. There are many things WY can do to make the hunting better without greatly limiting opportunity. They could be very creative. A point restriction is an easy an ineffective band aid to the issue. A 2 year or longer 4 point restriction will not have any net effect except to recruit more little bucks while forcing hunters to hammer the bigger bucks. Sorry but in the areas I know and some of those I know way better than many of the residents, I have opinions on what can be done and how they can be managed. I have spent over 30 days in my deer unit this year as a NR. Last year I killed my buck on my 36th day in the unit. That is total days scouting and hunting for deer. That does not include another 10+ days of camping fishing etc. Or the 14 to 15 days I try to predator hunt in the unit with my resident friends.

So while you would like to show me the state line, I am here to stay. I am committed to hunting interest in my favorite states across the west. I will say this, I do appreciate the free coyote hunting I get in Wy. I am certain you have nothing bad to say about several hundred WY coyotes I have killed...

I still support opportunity first. I do not see a point restriction as anything but a decrease in opportunity. I do not see how a point restriction, at least a 4 point or better restriction is going to help either opportunity or quality. I hope I am wrong. I however have seen such restriction in place near Rawlins and those units still have a very strong 3 point gene.

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jm77
(1224 posts)
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Sep-26-17, 
12:50 PM (MST)
33. "RE: Nonresident moose and sheep preference points"


>Exactly the BS response I predicted...
>As for my post most
>of them lately have been
>done via phone while out
>hunting WY. It is funny
>how hypocritical some people can
>be...
>
>You surely did not have a
>problem with nonresidents or any
>hunter for that matter stepping
>up to support the WY
>wolf plan. You never once
>told a person like me
>to worry about my own
>state while I was writing
>letters to congress in support
>of de-listing wolves. You probably
>are not very upset to
>have me currently writing and
>supporting the de-listing of the
>grizzly either. You probably did
>not have a single issue
>with this nonresident writing in
>support of the state purchasing
>the Boston ranch nearly 10
>years ago (or there about).
>Also if I recall correctly
>you were here with other
>Wyoming hunters asking all of
>us to to speak up
>in opposition of the land
>swap that was voted
>down.
>
>I am sorry but I will
>still be a voice in
>WY. Luckily it sounds like
>the biologist who was working
>in the areas I hunt
>is now gone. While he
>was a great guy, I
>felt like he was a
>puppet to a few voices
>and ignored the voices of
>many others in the area.
>I can only hope the
>new biologist, is willing to
>work out fixes. There are
>many things WY can do
>to make the hunting better
>without greatly limiting opportunity. They
>could be very creative. A
>point restriction is an easy
>an ineffective band aid to
>the issue. A 2 year
>or longer 4 point restriction
>will not have any net
>effect except to recruit more
>little bucks while forcing hunters
>to hammer the bigger bucks.
>Sorry but in the areas
>I know and some of
>those I know way better
>than many of the residents,
>I have opinions on what
>can be done and how
>they can be managed. I
>have spent over 30 days
>in my deer unit this
>year as a NR. Last
>year I killed my buck
>on my 36th day in
>the unit. That is total
>days scouting and hunting for
>deer. That does not include
>another 10+ days of camping
>fishing etc. Or the 14
>to 15 days I try
>to predator hunt in the
>unit with my resident friends.
>
>
>So while you would like to
>show me the state line,
>I am here to stay.
>I am committed to hunting
>interest in my favorite states
>across the west. I will
>say this, I do appreciate
>the free coyote hunting I
>get in Wy. I am
>certain you have nothing bad
>to say about several hundred
>WY coyotes I have killed...
>
>
>I still support opportunity first. I
>do not see a point
>restriction as anything but a
>decrease in opportunity. I do
>not see how a point
>restriction, at least a 4
>point or better restriction is
>going to help either opportunity
>or quality. I hope I
>am wrong. I however have
>seen such restriction in place
>near Rawlins and those units
>still have a very strong
>3 point gene.

While I have neither the time or inclination to address the so many inaccuracies of your comments about me and your ideas, I will say this: without the careful implementation of point restrictions(3 or 4 point) in certain deer areas, we will surely see more limited quota areas popping up and there goes your "opportunity" right back across the state line, so to speak.

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